John Lynch - 49ers GM

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

I get that. But end of the day they still have as many top shelf talents at key positions in addition to great depth,

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

I get that. But end of the day they still have as many top shelf talents at key positions in addition to great depth,

That's why I liked this discussion because it's two teams on polar opposite spectrums of team building and both finding success doing it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

I get that. But end of the day they still have as many top shelf talents at key positions in addition to great depth,

That's why I liked this discussion because it's two teams on polar opposite spectrums of team building and both finding success doing it.

Yeah, polar opposite approaches. They just beat the niners to the punch with the stafford deal, but if Lance pans out niners are set for the long haul.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

I get that. But end of the day they still have as many top shelf talents at key positions in addition to great depth,

That's why I liked this discussion because it's two teams on polar opposite spectrums of team building and both finding success doing it.

Yeah, polar opposite approaches. They just beat the niners to the punch with the stafford deal, but if Lance pans out niners are set for the long haul.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

They ain't lined up for a repeat

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

I get that. But end of the day they still have as many top shelf talents at key positions in addition to great depth,

That's why I liked this discussion because it's two teams on polar opposite spectrums of team building and both finding success doing it.

Yeah, polar opposite approaches. They just beat the niners to the punch with the stafford deal, but if Lance pans out niners are set for the long haul.

True.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Don't we hear this type of thing every year when It comes to the Rams, though? Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I do find It Interesting how the Rams are known for making big money signings, trades, ect, whilst avoiding the dreaded salary cap hell. ( Not sure that even exist these days lol ) the Rams have a strategy that has kept them competitive for a number of years now. A strategy that finally paid off, with them finally winning the super bowl, and will most likely be In the mix for about super bowl run this season, come end of the year.

Question Is, do we really believe the Rams will have Salary cap Issues within the next few years or so? Or will they still be amongst the best In the league? I'm thinking the latter since I still believe the cap Is pretty much non-existent these days, or at the very least, can be manipulated to some extent.

It looked really good for us in 1994 too. It was *a year or two* after our super bowl win that really started the cap hell. They basically are backloading Stafford contract, and to a certain extent Aaron's, etc... when we did that back in 1994, it basically froze free agency and also prevented us from signing some of our own stars.

The difference now is that there is more rules and some flexibility (trading draft picks for cap space etc...) and so on, but i like the ShanaLynch strategy, its very similar to the Warriors strategy.

P.S. I defer to AB81 on anything i got wrong here.

Correct, and agree 100%, it will catch up to them, good for them for winning it all, but down the road they'll keep losing players and cutting, redoing, etc....

I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

*IF* the core stays healthy. What if they don't? Keep in mind injuries increase as players get older. Just take a look at Stafford (age 34) and Aaron (age 31) Ramsey (27). You can always spend more than you make. It's like you can always charge more on your credit card than the credit limit. I think it's an undisciplined way of dealing with the cap vs frontloading. Frontloading forces you to be cap disciplined. Front loading contracts, I think, retains flexibility, and allows you to still sign free agents to big contracts - with the benefit of future flexibility. Case in point, Jimmy was frontloaded massively, and now the 49ers - if they choose to - can instantly get rid of his cap hit by cutting him. Whereas, if Stafford gets injured, the Rams are stuck with his contract for a very long time.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

I don't think the cap strategy got them the Lombardi, it was rather good coaching and good player evaluations. Look at Seattle and their situation. I think they tried (to a certain extent) the same strategy as the Rams but because they suck at player evaluations (and drafting) -- they are bottom feeders now. Realizing a mistake and paying cash and taking the cap hit, is bass ackwards to me. I'd rather trust Kyle's player evaluations and player development skills - and use those number 1 picks for long term development and cap stability. Patriots, I think, have the most similar cap strategy to the 49ers. It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

I don't think the cap strategy got them the Lombardi, it was rather good coaching and good player evaluations. Look at Seattle and their situation. I think they tried (to a certain extent) the same strategy as the Rams but because they suck at player evaluations (and drafting) -- they are bottom feeders now. Realizing a mistake and paying cash and taking the cap hit, is bass ackwards to me. I'd rather trust Kyle's player evaluations and player development skills - and use those number 1 picks for long term development and cap stability. Patriots, I think, have the most similar cap strategy to the 49ers. It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

But several of their "core" was added via trade or FA that got them over the top and then, like you said, good player evaluations and development of players from the 2nd round on and their #1 injury history allows players to stay playing next to each other and grow and develop properly through good coaching.

If they decide to move on from say, Ramsey, they'll trade him, get his salary off the books, then reload and target another top CB who's younger and use a first rounder if they have too.

Originally posted by Giedi:
It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

The Rams have been to the playoffs every single year but one with 2 SB visits and 1 SB win under Sean McVay in 5 total seasons. That's not feast or famine--that's the definition of consistency.

Originally posted by Heroism:
The Rams have been to the playoffs every single year but one with 2 SB visits and 1 SB win under Sean McVay in 5 total seasons. That's not feast or famine--that's the definition of consistency.

Agree, but there is one other factor of utmost importance, and that is "good health" Rams are #1 there, and sure that can be bad juju for us or good juju for them. In fact it is the simple fact that Rams haven't been running a moneyball outfit and we had until last couple yrs.

Finally the tide has turned and if that ace CB coming out of ALA has been overlooked because of an ACL, a MCL and broken hand, we no longer are in the market. On the KIN thing, i think we felt his knees were tendinitis and could be managed. The surgery he had this yr had nothing to do with tendinitis. But that's just one guy. Overall we have been angling for no more moneyball guys , something Rams just have not done.

I think that is the difference maker in success of either team in last 5 yrs. We now at least have realized moneyball for what it was in NFL, and moved on. I think we match the Rams pretty much even Steven here on out. It would help a ton if Trey lives up to his capabilities.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL

Exactly, the Rams ain't going away anytime soon. They're going to keep reloading every few years. I really fell for the "this will bite them in the ass" notion back in 2018 and laughed at their team-building approach. Fast forward to today with a SB championship in the bag and lined up for a repeat, I'm no longer laughing.

Ahh yes I remember thinking they were screwed with that Todd Gurley contract cause all the cap people said they were screwed.

NY dropped a video in the cap thread and the expert in the video pointed out several things they do. One thing was that the Rams do not hesitate on realizing a mistake paying the cash and just taking the cap hit immediately. They move on while most teams restructure and prolong the situation. Then they extend their key guys as early as possible to lower cap immediate cap hits. Look how fast they just moved off of Cooks, Gurley, Goff, and Woods contracts And replaced them with better and in some cases cheaper players.

I don't think the cap strategy got them the Lombardi, it was rather good coaching and good player evaluations. Look at Seattle and their situation. I think they tried (to a certain extent) the same strategy as the Rams but because they suck at player evaluations (and drafting) -- they are bottom feeders now. Realizing a mistake and paying cash and taking the cap hit, is bass ackwards to me. I'd rather trust Kyle's player evaluations and player development skills - and use those number 1 picks for long term development and cap stability. Patriots, I think, have the most similar cap strategy to the 49ers. It's feast or famine with regards to the Rams.

Of course it did. They wouldn't have Matt Stafford, Miller or Ramsay. That takes nothing away from their good coaching and player evaluation. Look how great they do without having 1st round picks. Majority of their starters were draft picks. The key is extending the right young guys. I don't see comparison between them and Seattle. Seattle is heavily into draft and developing outside of trading for Adams. Rams traded for a QB, CB, and pass rusher. No team has mortgaged 1st round picks like the Rams. Every team makes mistakes. In some cases a team would hope a guy can find his former self but it doesn't work out that way all the time. See Dee Ford. then you end up extending and restructuring guys. That in the end just bog down your cap year after year. Then you gotta extend the guy again or if he takes less money then you have to add in the injury clause guarantee. A lot of the times it's better to just cut bait take the cap hit for a year and then move on. Prolonging your mistake doesn't make it better.