John Lynch - 49ers GM

Originally posted by NCommand:

I heard an intriguing point made about the Rams team building strategy. While they give up first round picks for higher talented veterans in trades, they also don't have to pay for that first round talent. For instance, Bosa will cost us $10.8M and $17.8M in the 5th year and Kinlaw, $5M. As long as those veterans stay healthy and you draft well from the 2nd round on, you should be able to be restock annually and still end up with your veterans for the same amount of time as the first round rookie (4-5 years). This is how they afford to do this annually and lose players (2-5 players) at the same rate as everybody else.

PS: I'm not advocating for this; just thought it was an interesting team building philosophy.

Yep. teams can do this when they draft extremely well in the late rounds like the Rams do. 14 of the Rams 22 starters last season were draft picks

Originally posted by BimmerKing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I heard an intriguing point made about the Rams team building strategy. While they give up first round picks for higher talented veterans in trades, they also don't have to pay for that first round talent. For instance, Bosa will cost us $10.8M and $17.8M in the 5th year and Kinlaw, $5M. As long as those veterans stay healthy and you draft well from the 2nd round on, you should be able to be restock annually and still end up with your veterans for the same amount of time as the first round rookie (4-5 years). This is how they afford to do this annually and lose players (2-5 players) at the same rate as everybody else.

PS: I'm not advocating for this; just thought it was an interesting team building philosophy.

Yep. teams can do this when they draft extremely well in the late rounds like the Rams do. 14 of the Rams 22 starters last season were draft picks

Good point. And they've been the healthiest team too. So the idea they'll enter cap hell is probably a fallacy...we've been saying it for years now anyways, haven't we?

They'll just keep running with the formula, IMHO.

I like talking about different team building philosophies...and this one is on the opposite extreme from ours.

Interesting interview of MM with Scot McCloughan. He thought Castro-Fields was our best value pick. He felt it is a top 10 roster and contender. He also thought there's non rush to develop Trey but there is to win (on Garoppolo). #Triggered

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good point. And they've been the healthiest team too. So the idea they'll enter cap hell is probably a fallacy...we've been saying it for years now anyways, haven't we?

They'll just keep running with the formula, IMHO.

I like talking about different team building philosophies...and this one is on the opposite extreme from ours.

Most of those drafted starters aren't that good though. Lot of average to below average starters. If they get an injury to Aaron Donald there defense becomes instantly mediocre.

There strategy is have enough stars to compensate for the mediocrity on the rest of the roster.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good point. And they've been the healthiest team too. So the idea they'll enter cap hell is probably a fallacy...we've been saying it for years now anyways, haven't we?

They'll just keep running with the formula, IMHO.

I like talking about different team building philosophies...and this one is on the opposite extreme from ours.

Most of those drafted starters aren't that good though. Lot of average to below average starters. If they get an injury to Aaron Donald there defense becomes instantly mediocre.

There strategy is have enough stars to compensate for the mediocrity on the rest of the roster.

100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

Wanted to talk about the importance of the 2021 Draft Class for Success this year. Of course Lance, but we should have 3-4 other players from this class starting this season.

Appreciate the webzone's support as always!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
100%. It's risky indeed. But a calculated risk that so far, has paid off. They didn't really restock their high end veterans though so that means the core is another year older. And one key injury and they could drop like a rock.

It has a window where it can work. But it does catch up. Again their plan is to have enough talent on offense to compensate for struggles that could come on defense if Donald or Ramsay go down. I'd prefer to have talent at all levels so one injury doesn't destroy the team.

Yeah, we're kind of on the other extreme of that philosophy. We're clearly the deepest team in the NFL IMHO.

I count just as many top shelf talents on the niners coupled with very good depth.

We're talking about how those players are acquired...goes back a bit in this thread.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I heard an intriguing point made about the Rams team building strategy. While they give up first round picks for higher talented veterans in trades, they also don't have to pay for that first round talent. For instance, Bosa will cost us $10.8M and $17.8M in the 5th year and Kinlaw, $5M. As long as those veterans stay healthy and you draft well from the 2nd round on, you should be able to be restock annually and still end up with your veterans for the same amount of time as the first round rookie (4-5 years). This is how they afford to do this annually and lose players (2-5 players) at the same rate as everybody else.

PS: I'm not advocating for this; just thought it was an interesting team building philosophy.

I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Don't we hear this type of thing every year when It comes to the Rams, though? Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I do find It Interesting how the Rams are known for making big money signings, trades, ect, whilst avoiding the dreaded salary cap hell. ( Not sure that even exist these days lol ) the Rams have a strategy that has kept them competitive for a number of years now. A strategy that finally paid off, with them finally winning the super bowl, and will most likely be In the mix for about super bowl run this season, come end of the year.

Question Is, do we really believe the Rams will have Salary cap Issues within the next few years or so? Or will they still be amongst the best In the league? I'm thinking the latter since I still believe the cap Is pretty much non-existent these days, or at the very least, can be manipulated to some extent.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Don't we hear this type of thing every year when It comes to the Rams, though? Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I do find It Interesting how the Rams are known for making big money signings, trades, ect, whilst avoiding the dreaded salary cap hell. ( Not sure that even exist these days lol ) the Rams have a strategy that has kept them competitive for a number of years now. A strategy that finally paid off, with them finally winning the super bowl, and will most likely be In the mix for about super bowl run this season, come end of the year.

Question Is, do we really believe the Rams will have Salary cap Issues within the next few years or so? Or will they still be amongst the best In the league? I'm thinking the latter since I still believe the cap Is pretty much non-existent these days, or at the very least, can be manipulated to some extent.

It looked really good for us in 1994 too. It was *a year or two* after our super bowl win that really started the cap hell. They basically are backloading Stafford contract, and to a certain extent Aaron's, etc... when we did that back in 1994, it basically froze free agency and also prevented us from signing some of our own stars.

The difference now is that there is more rules and some flexibility (trading draft picks for cap space etc...) and so on, but i like the ShanaLynch strategy, its very similar to the Warriors strategy.

P.S. I defer to AB81 on anything i got wrong here.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Don't we hear this type of thing every year when It comes to the Rams, though? Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I do find It Interesting how the Rams are known for making big money signings, trades, ect, whilst avoiding the dreaded salary cap hell. ( Not sure that even exist these days lol ) the Rams have a strategy that has kept them competitive for a number of years now. A strategy that finally paid off, with them finally winning the super bowl, and will most likely be In the mix for about super bowl run this season, come end of the year.

Question Is, do we really believe the Rams will have Salary cap Issues within the next few years or so? Or will they still be amongst the best In the league? I'm thinking the latter since I still believe the cap Is pretty much non-existent these days, or at the very least, can be manipulated to some extent.

It looked really good for us in 1994 too. It was *a year or two* after our super bowl win that really started the cap hell. They basically are backloading Stafford contract, and to a certain extent Aaron's, etc... when we did that back in 1994, it basically froze free agency and also prevented us from signing some of our own stars.

The difference now is that there is more rules and some flexibility (trading draft picks for cap space etc...) and so on, but i like the ShanaLynch strategy, its very similar to the Warriors strategy.

P.S. I defer to AB81 on anything i got wrong here.

Correct, and agree 100%, it will catch up to them, good for them for winning it all, but down the road they'll keep losing players and cutting, redoing, etc....

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I just looked at the Rams cap space in 2023, they are over the cap already. On top of that they lost Von Miller and some other young stars. Andrew Whitworth is gone and Austin Corbett is gone. I don't know if they have adequately replaced Sony Michel's production. The Rams draft this year was supposedly very weak. All in all, I think they lost more talent than then acquired from both the draft and free agency. Stafford will be a year older in 2022 at 34+ and it cost the Rams two first round picks. They had no first round picks this year. In 2023, they have 6 draft picks and no Day 1 picks and only one Day 2 pick and the rest of the picks are Day 3. Staffords contract is for 5 years, and the rams are stuck with 18.5 million prorated bonus until 2026 (Stafford will be 38). He'll be earning 31 Million plus his prorated bonus in 2024. It gets even worse in 2025 and 2026. Aaron Donalds contract is along the lines of Stafford, just a bit less money. I didn't even bother going through Jalen's contract numbers. This stuff reminds me of the salary cap hell that we got into after 1994.

Don't we hear this type of thing every year when It comes to the Rams, though? Not saying you are wrong or anything, but I do find It Interesting how the Rams are known for making big money signings, trades, ect, whilst avoiding the dreaded salary cap hell. ( Not sure that even exist these days lol ) the Rams have a strategy that has kept them competitive for a number of years now. A strategy that finally paid off, with them finally winning the super bowl, and will most likely be In the mix for about super bowl run this season, come end of the year.

Question Is, do we really believe the Rams will have Salary cap Issues within the next few years or so? Or will they still be amongst the best In the league? I'm thinking the latter since I still believe the cap Is pretty much non-existent these days, or at the very least, can be manipulated to some extent.

It looked really good for us in 1994 too. It was *a year or two* after our super bowl win that really started the cap hell. They basically are backloading Stafford contract, and to a certain extent Aaron's, etc... when we did that back in 1994, it basically froze free agency and also prevented us from signing some of our own stars.

The difference now is that there is more rules and some flexibility (trading draft picks for cap space etc...) and so on, but i like the ShanaLynch strategy, its very similar to the Warriors strategy.

P.S. I defer to AB81 on anything i got wrong here.

Correct, and agree 100%, it will catch up to them, good for them for winning it all, but down the road they'll keep losing players and cutting, redoing, etc....

I'm not sure if I see an "end" to a strategy they've done for the past 4 years successfully. Trade away and not have to pay for first rounders to secure high end veterans who stay healthy at premium positions. Extending "their own" like Aaron Donald is something every team would do. With the cap rising, I would imagine, as long as they can maintain their core, they'll just reload in the same fashion when it's time to lose a core player...trade him away and trade more first round picks to secure another high end veteran and continue to draft well from the 2nd round on and develop well. It's just a modern day way of staying ahead of the cap and team building. Every team loses 2-5 players a year. They aren't losing anymore than anyone else IMHO.

The caveat is they remain the healthiest team in the NFL. If they lose one core player, they could be done. Health is the real reason this works. We could never employ this strategy. LOL