John Lynch - 49ers GM

Originally posted by NinerGM:

But I also said this ...

This has happened twice now in the last 40 days: someone goes on the record to say Paraag isn't that bad and he gets called a tool or mouthpiece. Kawakami did it with Gase, and now people are doing it with Lynch. If you're entitled to your half-informed opinion, because let's face it, you don't know s**t absolutely because you're not privy to conversations so in actuality you don't know for sure who really made decisions, the decision process or who are the primary influencers for sure. If you're entitled to your opinion despite not knowing s**t for sure, Gase and Lynch are entitled to theirs given they know more than you.

This doesn't absolve them of blame. They are decision-makers. It's the next step that's being taken here .... that Paraag is saying we shouldn't sign free-agents based on ACL sheets or that we're a "Moneyball" organization because of Paraag. That's pure speculation based on?

Money ball isn't much of a speculation when Paraag's own words confirm that philosophy that resonates throughout the 49ers from why Paraag was brought in by John to clashing with Bill Walsh to players being asked to pay for their own water to constraints looking for the cheapest valued free agents to having the most cap room. ACL's...speculative but doesn't that fit the value mold too? Same with stockpiling the most draft picks over the past 4 years and playing the probability game. We were the Brown's far before the Browns current Analytics GM's.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

As to leaks, here is Mike Silver confirming straight up that the 49ers leak info to he and his colleagues...it's also standard practice.

There was no surprise 2 seconds after Baalke was fired, there were about 3 reports all claiming he was the devil and Jed was innocent across the board...of Adam Gase reports from 2 years ago. Had any of these media guys been "fed" that info back then, they would have reported that and it would have been big news (owner and GM not on the same page).

They weren't fed that info until recently. Timely. And whether it's the truth or not or just a tactic to be more attractive to start a HC/GM search, it's STILL A LEAK.

Mike Silver confirming the 49ers leak to him.

http://media.957thegame.com/a/118202968/michael-silver.htm

@ 7:10

First, I encourage people to listen to the WHOLE interview so you understand the context of the conversation.

Who stated the reports about Baalke NC?

Glazer, Gase and MMQB's Peter King. Not Kawakami or Cohn.

Silver is specifically talking about PLAYERS. Start at 6:50. This is talking about trading a player, not hires, or bad GMs. Not only 49er would leak about PLAYERS THEY WANT TO TRADE. Donnavan McNabb was the example Silver uses.

Next segment: Second interview about Kyle Shanahan.

Two totally unrelated topics.

It doesn't matter the context. He is straight up telling you the 49ers leak to he and his colleagues. It doesn't matter if or when or why something is being leaked. He's fed by them and makes a living off it. "Sources" absolve him if the info is ever incorrect. This is also standard practice for all 32 teams. As fans, we're only privy to what we're fed...and organizations feed the media who feeds us. Silver has probably been the most nationally tied to the 49ers for a while now, even before Hue Jackson.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Wu-5Rings:

Originally posted by English:

This thread is for discussing Lynch not Harbaugh. thanks.

What happen to this post 4 pages ago???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Thanks...

I didnt bring up the topic. Stay on top of things then.

My point ended with John Lynch.. Message.....

Are you under the impression this place has full time moderation?

Now people, back on subject please.

You keep saying the same thing over and over to me yet everytime I rebuttal, You post after I rebuttal?

I find that strange and troubling due to your history of suspending the wrong posters..

Im not under any impression... I look at facts..

Np will do as long as it applies to all......

No idea what you are talking about. I am not saying anything to you, I am just trying to get a thread back on subject. PM the Mods if you have problems.

Rinse,Wash, Repeat

Got it

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I'm sorry bud but you've been reading too much WooLick because this just isn't true.

John didn't bring Paraag in, Terry Donahue did because he wanted to create a system of selecting good players because he states as a quote, he wasn't good at selecting players like Walsh was. The analytics was an attempt to help the team. John York didn't bring in Marathe. It was Donahue's idea.

Second a lot has changed on this team since 2006.

And the ACLs - I mean no mention of Baalke? Like not even a little here? That can't be right. Now I'm supposed to believe it was all Paraag telling Baalke to get ACL players and he wasn't the real GM?

So you're trying to tell me Paraag's moneyball tactics and meddling didn't clash with Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh and promoted several direct questions from John Lynch on his specific role and leaks? Call me skeptical but moneyball seems to be the foundation of our team since York took over.

As to Baalke and ACL's...just stating that tactic seemed to fit that moneyball mindset too. And he's an idiot for not only subscribing to it but sticking to it for so long. He absolutely deserved to be fired for a variety of reasons. Did he get promoted and stay as long as he did because he had a similar mindset of Jed/Paraag/Brian?

Probably...but I'm just speculating. After all, they are the true trigger men.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I would disagree because as Silver points out, with the player trade example, the person leaking the information has an agenda for the leak. Right? My point in all of this, and as you point out in the next bolded section, we don't know who's doing the leaking. Your assertion is that it's Paraag and Jed, my assertion is that it was Baalke. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle. Even Silver says it may not be either and someone else may be leaking the information. Regardless, we don't know the source. However when someone goes on the record and says "x" you don't have to wonder about source.

Your claim is "the organization feeds" and that's not what Silver is saying for every rumor that comes out about a team.

I think you're reaching a bit here. The guy is telling you straight up he's being fed by the 49ers.

I think the Lynch test flat out confirmed WHO is leaking the most...sure a secretary here or there could leak too. It happens.

The funny thing is that media still knew there was a third secret candidate. So they aren't even THAT good at keeping info under wraps even when trying their best to control it...or perhaps they threw the media a bone and just noted they won't reveal who it is...but, "Shhhh."

Leaking and feeding the media is standard.

To think Baalke would create his own smear campaign minutes after being fired is laughable. Who else would it be? Has he run to the media to leak his story...set the record straight? Of course not.

The dude may have been the devil but he was Jed and Paraag's devil.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I'm sorry bud but you've been reading too much WooLick because this just isn't true.

John didn't bring Paraag in, Terry Donahue did because he wanted to create a system of selecting good players because he states as a quote, he wasn't good at selecting players like Walsh was. The analytics was an attempt to help the team. John York didn't bring in Marathe. It was Donahue's idea.

Second a lot has changed on this team since 2006.

And the ACLs - I mean no mention of Baalke? Like not even a little here? That can't be right. Now I'm supposed to believe it was all Paraag telling Baalke to get ACL players and he wasn't the real GM?

So you're trying to tell me Paraag's moneyball tactics and meddling didn't clash with Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh and promoted several direct questions from John Lynch on his specific role and leaks? Call me skeptical but moneyball seems to be the foundation of our team since York took over.

As to Baalke and ACL's...just stating that tactic seemed to fit that moneyball mindset too. And he's an idiot for not only subscribing to it but sticking to it for so long. He absolutely deserved to be fired for a variety of reasons. Did he get promoted and stay as long as he did because he had a similar mindset of Jed/Paraag/Brian?

Probably...but I'm just speculating. After all, they are the true trigger men.

I'm saying DO what John Lynch said: do your homework but form you own opinion. I encourage everyone to do that. I'm simply saying, I know what I don't know. That's it. This was my first post. I RE-FUSE to be put into two camps of "he's innocent" or "he's evil incarnate with deity powers". You know me better than that bud, I think it's somewhere between that and there's a whole lot I don't know. There's so much I don't know that I can't CONCLUSIVELY SAY Paraag is the at fault and Gase and Lynch are now mouthpieces of the organization or what Kawakami called "Jedbots" simply because those two have their own opinion based on what they know (which is is way more than us).

Sure a "moneyball" mindeset might seem to fight Baalke - but that's assuming you know that Baalke not only agreed with it but that (1) Paraag pushed it (2) Baalke liked it and pushed it and (3) coaches accepted without question. That's too much assumption for me especially when Peter King has gone on record to say, Baalke was unilateral in his decisions and barred coaches from attending the Combine. If anything the verdict isn't settled on something like that but I do know what I don't know.

Nice. I'm the same. All I'm saying is that I'm still highly skeptical to date. I have no idea if Baalke was a straight puppet or just an incompetent fool or the devil or if Jed and Paraag have not meddled at all and just have an unfair bad rep...honestly, we only know what we're fed as fans. We have to connect the dots and speculate along the way. One thing we can confirm is that they ALL played a huge part in this collective fail.

Originally posted by NCommand:

So you're trying to tell me Paraag's moneyball tactics and meddling didn't clash with Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh and promoted several direct questions from John Lynch on his specific role and leaks? Call me skeptical but moneyball seems to be the foundation of our team since York took over.

As to Baalke and ACL's...just stating that tactic seemed to fit that moneyball mindset too. And he's an idiot for not only subscribing to it but sticking to it for so long. He absolutely deserved to be fired for a variety of reasons. Did he get promoted and stay as long as he did because he had a similar mindset of Jed/Paraag/Brian?

Probably...but I'm just speculating. After all, they are the true trigger men.

Okay I can't continue to listen to this nonsense. Saying PM is using moneyball tactics is implying that he has his hand in player personnel decisions. That is just absolutely not true whatsoever. He may be frugal when drawing contracts(His Job)but that has nothing to do with moneyball. Its actually pretty irresponsible to even make those types of comments when not a single report supports such wild claims.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

I'm not reaching at all - I'm taking what Silver has said and directly saying in context what he stated. I think the Lynch "test" was easy because the leaks stopped when someone left, but that's just my opinion based on what I've been reading. The media is always going to report rumors. It's not possible to have a 100% information blackout in the NFL. Silver says this at 6:55 in the link you provided. The league is too small and someone is going to know something. The huge difference for me between a leak and a rumor is the exmaple I provided about how Kelly was fired.

I see. I define a leak differently...to me, any information heading out to the media, no matter the purpose or intent behind it, is a leak. Whether it's Jedaraag at the start of a HC/GM search to make us look more attractive or a water boy who overheard a conversation and wanted to get paid, it's all a leak to me. That's why these sources remain anonymous. Even the articles that are written by King are built on inside sources and information. It comes from somewhere. I'm just saying most of it is done with a purpose and intent.

Originally posted by JBrack:

Okay I can't continue to listen to this nonsense. Saying PM is using moneyball tactics is implying that he has his hand in player personnel decisions. That is just absolutely not true whatsoever. He may be frugal when drawing contracts(His Job)but that has nothing to do with moneyball. Its actually pretty irresponsible to even make those types of comments when not a single report supports such wild claims.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/139286-paraag-marathe-thread/

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm not reaching at all - I'm taking what Silver has said and directly saying in context what he stated. I think the Lynch "test" was easy because the leaks stopped when someone left, but that's just my opinion based on what I've been reading. The media is always going to report rumors. It's not possible to have a 100% information blackout in the NFL. Silver says this at 6:55 in the link you provided. The league is too small and someone is going to know something. The huge difference for me between a leak and a rumor is the exmaple I provided about how Kelly was fired.

I see. I define a leak differently...to me, any information heading out to the media, no matter the purpose or intent behind it, is a leak. Whether it's Jedaraag at the start of a HC/GM search to make us look more attractive or a water boy who overheard a conversation and wanted to get paid, it's all a leak to me. That's why these sources remain anonymous. Even the articles that are written by King are built on inside sources and information. It comes from somewhere. I'm just saying most of it is done with a purpose and intent.

The only way to know if the leaks are gone with baalke is if they actually stop from here on out. Just because lynch wasn't leaked doesn't mean whoever was leaking in the past is now gone. For all we know the leaks could have been from multiple people for multiple reasons. The only things we know for certain is that the leaks didn't originate from lynch or shanny.

Originally posted by NCommand:

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/139286-paraag-marathe-thread/

Conspiracy theory land? Thats La La land. I prefer reality...

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Be skeptical. You should be. This organization has burned it's benefit of doubt long ago.

You also should be skeptical of those sources that seem to feed you based on an agenda.... Like Kawakami who turned on Gase because he disagreed with his narrative. Or PFT that only reports essentially negative things. Or Biderman who has blatantly said he has an "article quota" LOL. There are certain writers I appreciate because they've shown in the past to no be agenda driven. But again, even with trusted sources, I know I'm only getting a piece.

As far as media goes...IMHO...they are ALL working together and off each other. I see it daily in our news feed. One guy brings up a topic and five minutes later there are 8 articles on the same topic...good copy, bad cop. I'm skeptical even of my boys MB and MM. Why? I remember one of them explaining how they were restricted on what they could or couldn't report on as instructed by the team.

I love it

Originally posted by PacTiger:

The only way to know if the leaks are gone with baalke is if they actually stop from here on out. Just because lynch wasn't leaked doesn't mean whoever was leaking in the past is now gone. For all we know the leaks could have been from multiple people for multiple reasons. The only things we know for certain is that the leaks didn't originate from lynch or shanny.

"Leaks" will never stop. How do you think people like Jay Glazier and Adam Schefter make a living? Most of it is considered insider information. So naturally if you are in NFL circles you are going to be one of the first to hear about it and report it. I don't know an exact percentage but Id guess less than 10% of NFL stories are actually leaks.

Originally posted by NCommand:
So you're trying to tell me Paraag's moneyball tactics and meddling didn't clash with Bill Walsh, Jim Harbaugh and promoted several direct questions from John Lynch on his specific role and leaks? Call me skeptical but moneyball seems to be the foundation of our team since York took over.

As to Baalke and ACL's...just stating that tactic seemed to fit that moneyball mindset too. And he's an idiot for not only subscribing to it but sticking to it for so long. He absolutely deserved to be fired for a variety of reasons. Did he get promoted and stay as long as he did because he had a similar mindset of Jed/Paraag/Brian?

Probably...but I'm just speculating. After all, they are the true trigger men.

Money ball can mean many things and be used differently be various coaches/managers. For instance, I believe they have used value formulas for each position and units. They tried to keep the balance so they would not have to short one area by overpaying another. But when you have elite players, at any position it can skew your balance. Having Willis, J Smith, A Smith and Bowman on the defensive front meant that DBs had to be more reasonable.

Where I believed the system broke down is with the offense, paying three first round OL picks and several other high picks when the line could not pass block effectively was out of kilter. It meant the QB didn't have time to wait for the understaffed WRs to break free. Some coaches could have created an offense that would work under these circumstances, but obviously the niners did not have them.

A coach like Belichick doesn't need stars to create an effective defense or offense. Brady is the only consistent on the team over the years, which tells us how important a FQB is/will be. He has an advantage because when you are on top FAs want to join your team, so when he loses a key player he can fill the spot easily. The niners are not in that position so they will need to build back as best they can. I really hope they can bring in several QB for Shanahan to work with or we'll be back to square one in a couple of years.