49ers Week 2 2016 - Thoughts after rewatching the game... | Page 8

Marvin49 · 2016-09-19T10:35:48-07:00

Well that was predictable. 1) Gabbert: ................................... Where do I start? I have to start by giving it up for when he does something well. The TD to Torrey was nice. The first down throw to Streater just before it was nice. The TD to Vance was nice even though Vance did most of the work. The drop by Vance was also a fairly nice throw even though it would have been a difficult catch. The rest was average to pretty bad. Gabbert is hurting them with inaccuracy, rushing through his progressions and not letting plays develop, and what REALLY stood out to me is that he's even killing the run game. The read option only works if the QB is an actual threat to run the ball. There were AT LEAST 4-5 times that he handed off when he had space in front of him to run if he'd held the ball. In most of those cases the handoff to the RB was blown up for a loss or no gain. The first one was the run in which Draughn lost 5 yards on their first possession of the game. Huge hole for the QB to run. It happened AGAIN on Draughns SECOND run of the game. It happened AGAIN with several Hyde runs. It also happened on his TD run where he went in untouched. It looked good, didn't it? Well that run had been there ALL DAY because they knew if the LB just stood anywhere close to that hole, the QB was handing off. That (amongst other things) IMO KILLED the run game. What looked really clear to me though was that Chips scheme was working. The plays were there to be made. Gabbert had time (more on that later) and guys were open. Gabbert simply couldn't deliver the ball. Gabbert isn't the guy. Plain and simple. I dunno that Kap is but I'd like to see what he can do. Reality tho IMO is that the earliest we would see Kap without a Gabbert injury is week 5. Dunno why, but thats my guess. 2) O-Line: Lost in the madness is just how damn good the O-Line played yesterday in Pass Protection. Say what you want about Gabberts performance, but it wasn't because he was under pressure all day. The only tie they game up a sack was when...wait for it....Marcus Martin subbed into the game. This is another reason I'd like to see what Kap can do. If they can protect him, maybe Kap can push the ball down the field like he did in 2012. Dunno if it would work but I'd like to see them try. 3) McDonald: So in just a few plays we saw why many here really want to see him play more and then show why so many can't stand the guy. The TD displayed the raw athletic ability the guy has. Not many TDs could have outrun the D like that. The drop however was bad. In fairness it would have been a tough catch as it was on his fingertips, but it was a tough catch he should have made. 4) Pass Rush: What pass rush? Niners need help bad at OLB. Those guys are supposed to be your pass rusher supremes and they are doing nothing. This will get better when Lynch returns, but we got 2 more games of this. Conditions were certainly an issue (and that works both ways), but the lack of a pass rush was a big problem. 5) Bethea: Ouch. He had a few good plays in there (INT, caused fumble), but man that guy got torched yesterday. I've been him play as poorly as he did on a few of those plays. Hope thats an aberration and not a sign of age. Tartt is in the wings if he plays poorly, but hoping Bethea still has something left. 6) Garnett: Why didn't Garnett sub in instead of Martin? Last week excuse was that Martin plays more positions so Garnett was inactive...but Garnett was up for this game. Thats a concern. 7) Defense in General vs Kelly Scheme: So...we've all heard about how Chips scheme puts the D on the field too long because they run fast and don't burn any clock. Well that wasn't an excuse yesterday. Chip was using his scheme for sure but he wasn't running NEARLY as fast as he likes to. He knew the conditions were going to be a problem and ADJUSTED. What killed that D were the conditions and the O being unable to sustain drives. If you burn every second of time off the play clock between plays but can't stay on the field, the D is gonna tire. There are a lot of nice pieces on that side of the ball. Cam Newton was the MVP last year for a reason. 8) Run Game: So I've already gone over what IMO is Gabberts role in the poor run game. The other aspect was Those monster DTs and LBs just blowing up the entire middle of the line. Some of that is to be expected as even though they game up some yards vs Denver, thats more of an aberration than the norm. The other guys get paid too and the Niners open the season with a murderers row of front 7s in the Rams, Panthers, and 'hawks. I would though like to see Garnett in there for Beadles. more power up front. 9) Seattle: Seattle is struggling, but I'm not in any way thinking this is a slam dunk. They'll be pissed and in their house. Good news is that sound shouldn't be the issue it once was as everything now is based on hand signals. Getting to the line quickly and snapping the ball may even slow down the crowd. Remains to be seen however. Seattle's D is just if not more ferocious than Carolinas, but the O isn't playing like Carolinas. They don't have 6'5" walking mismatches at WR. Should be interesting. I'd still bet on a Seattle win, but it's not nearly the sure thing I though it might have been before the season started. 10) Team weaknesses: When people asked me after the Rams game what I though, I pretty much game them the same answer every time. I came away viewing them pretty much exactly the way I viewed them going in. Better than people think, some really young and talented defenders, need at OLB, and desperate need at QB and WR. I didn't expect 28-0, but all of those weaknesses showed up even in week 1. In week 2 they were REALLY on display, QB in particular. In the past I've been an advocate of looking at stats to make my points. I did this in particular with Alex Smith. With Gabbert, the stats really lie. There were some good throws in there, but for SO MUCH of the game he was just KILLING them with his unwillingness to keep on the run, make an accurate short pass, or just sit in the pocket and let a play develop. So frustrating.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:08 PM

#106

a49erfan77
Veteran
Posts: 5,086

Originally posted by thl408:
Here are two plays I thought Gabbert did the right thing to hand off even though the result of the play ended up being very bad (tackle for loss).
Most zone read plays have the backside DE as the key defender and if the QB keeps, then he runs to the edge where the DE came from. Here, the 49ers key the DT (KShort). So Gabbert needs to read his own running lane, but the running lane is now up the A gap - right up the middle.

So if Short is his read on this play, and Short is unblocked heading straight for the HB, shouldn't the read be to not hand it off here?

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:09 PM

#107

Evilgenius
Veteran
Posts: 1,266

I don't think the drop McDonald had can be held too harshly against him. Most guys drop that. That would be a ridiculous catch. Yeah, we would like him to make it. Not likely though. Easy drops are unacceptable... I can live with really difficult ones.

Gabbert was bad. His TD throw to Smith wasn't good either.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:09 PM

#108

dj43
Moderator
Posts: 38,360

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
In both of these examples, Gabbert keeping would have at the very least resulted in a short gain or back to the LOS. Instead we took huge losses on both plays.

Sure, but I doubt Gabbert is coached to, "keep it if you can get a +2 yard gain or get back to the LoS. Risk going head to head with a MLB."

Kelly said last week that the coaching point is; "get a touchdown, get a first down and get down" to avoid injury.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:13 PM

#109

OnTheClock
Hall of Fame
Posts: 38,571

There was a ton of blame to go around honestly. No one person can be blamed really. From what I saw:

- Multiple blown assignments on defense causing HUGE plays to be given up

- Costly penalties gifting 1st downs to Carolina when we would've had them stopped

- Multiple open "gimme" throws missed by Gabbert, and him panicking late into INTs.

- Extremely costly fumble by Hyde, directly giving 7 to Carolina

- Critical late drop by McDonald

- At least a few offensive penalties that wiped out positive plays/first downs we would've had.

You could add in other specifics if you wanted to get into excruciating detail (missed tackles, Armstead over-pursuing Cam Newton on a would-be sack, or Reaser dropping an INT in the end zone, allowing Carolina to add 3 points, etc.)

But simply put, we made far too many mistakes that culminated in the score looking the way it did. We got outplayed.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:14 PM

#110

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Originally posted by thl408:
Here are two plays I thought Gabbert did the right thing to hand off even though the result of the play ended up being very bad (tackle for loss).
Most zone read plays have the backside DE as the key defender and if the QB keeps, then he runs to the edge where the DE came from. Here, the 49ers key the DT (KShort). So Gabbert needs to read his own running lane, but the running lane is now up the A gap - right up the middle.

Kilgore is not supposed to engage Short, but Short gets Kilgore knocked off balanced and unable to make it to the second level. If Gabbert keeps here, he gets mobbed (red LB).

----------------
Same zone read concept as above. The 49ers ran a bunch of packaged plays to try to stress the 7th box defender - this is one of them. The option to handoff, keep, or pass is up to Gabbert and his presnap read of the defensive alignment.

I think Beadles is supposed to move to the second level and block orange while leaving the DT unblocked for the QB to read. Unblocked orange defender chillin and Gabbert doesn't want to keep and run smack dab into the defender. The reason orange is able to stay home and not follow the RB is because the safety is coming down to provide run support.

Textbook run support from a Quarters safety. Trying to win with the zone read is tough considering CAR's offense also does it and CAR's defense probably practices against it everyday.

In both of these examples, Gabbert keeping would have at the very least resulted in a short gain or back to the LOS. Instead we took huge losses on both plays.

Thats what I'm saying. There was FAR more open space had he kept the ball...particularly on the second one.

At some point you just have to tip your cap to the defense for having the correct defense to stop the offense.

I thought that's what you're supposed to do.. Like, it's not always your player(s) is/are the problem. We knew Carolina D was scrappy... Left some plays on the field. Few plays go different,we hold them to around 20 and were in the same neighborhood as well. Bring on Seattle, atleast they lost to a team we blew out!

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:16 PM

#111

thl408
Moderator
Posts: 33,329

Here are back to back packaged plays where we can see how CAR used the extra half man in the box. One of the reasons teams started to play man coverage against Chip is because of his use of Packaged Plays (or Run Pass Option play). CAR is primarily a zone coverage team and this is how RPOs can attack zone.

The 49ers put 6 blockers on the LoS (5OL + TE). CAR matches up by putting 7 in the box. But they sneak half a man into the box (orange). Is orange lined up over the slot WR or is he considered 'in the box'? He's actually trying to do both.

Gabbert sees that orange is not committing to go in the box so he hands off to the RB.

Decent +4 gain although it took some bouncing from Hyde.

-----------------
This is the very next play of the game. Everything looks the same from the formation of the offense to the alignment of the defense. It's actually the same play, but the result of the play is very different.

Gabbert sees orange is not committing to the box, but by orange trying to play both the box and the slot, he can't play the slot.

You can see that at the time Gabbert throws the ball, there are OL blocking downfield. That's because the OL isn't pass blocking, they are run blocking in case there's a handoff. I thought the 49ers could have done more of this. Not sure if they did and it didn't work, or they didn't try. Point of all this is that Chip has gotten some flak for running too much on 1st down, but the reality is that some of these runs are determined by Gabbert, not Chip.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:17 PM

#112

SofaKing
Veteran
Posts: 27,442

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
So if Short is his read on this play, and Short is unblocked heading straight for the HB, shouldn't the read be to not hand it off here?

Good question. Seems to me that run play was doomed from the start. You have Short with a straight shot at Hyde, or Gabbert runs right up the middle with Davis and Keuchly waiting for him..Don't want to subject the QB to those hits. I don't blame him for handing off in that situation.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:17 PM

#113

D0PEMAN
Veteran
Posts: 5,108

Originally posted by iLL49er:

Originally posted by D0PEMAN:
Is it just me or is there anyone else getting annoyed by all the runs to the damn sideline?!

Several times yesterday where Hyde ran like 25 yards to gain only 5, then he has to get spelled cause he's gassed.

that's chip's run game...prepare for much much more of it.

the eagles players were beyond frustrated by it last year as it was extremely predictable and useless

It's probably the most annoying thing about this offense.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:21 PM

#114

pasodoc9er
Veteran
Posts: 21,040

In the retrospectoscope , I would have wished chip went after them with the dink and dunk passing scheme. INstead he went after the best or second best front 7 with Hyde, occasionally draughn . I would love to see the outcome had we done that. Retrospectoscope however, is cheating. I would have thot chip knew we werent' going to run on Panthers, but he didn't change his game plan. I was just a bit surprised.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:24 PM

#115

SofaKing
Veteran
Posts: 27,442

Originally posted by thl408:

You can see that at the time Gabbert throws the ball, there are OL blocking downfield. That's because the OL isn't pass blocking, they are run blocking in case there's a handoff. I thought the 49ers could have done more of this. Not sure if they did and it didn't work, or they didn't try. Point of all this is that Chip has gotten some flak for running too much on 1st down, but the reality is that some of these runs are determined by Gabbert, not Chip.

That is a key point. Comes with the territory in Chip's offense, the QB is responsible for what play is ran on those RPO's based on what he reads. Maybe on the whiteboard it works to perfection, but in practice the QB doesn't always make the optimal choice. Maybe something that can be ironed out with repetition.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:24 PM

#116

a49erfan77
Veteran
Posts: 5,086

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
So if Short is his read on this play, and Short is unblocked heading straight for the HB, shouldn't the read be to not hand it off here?

Good question. Seems to me that run play was doomed from the start. You have Short with a straight shot at Hyde, or Gabbert runs right up the middle with Davis and Keuchly waiting for him..Don't want to subject the QB to those hits. I don't blame him for handing off in that situation.

QB's job is to get yards and score points, not hand off the ball and take a sure loss to avoid contact.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:24 PM

#117

susweel
Hall of Nepal
Posts: 122,132

Its crazy how similar the first two games are to last year.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:25 PM

#118

thl408
Moderator
Posts: 33,329

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here are two plays I thought Gabbert did the right thing to hand off even though the result of the play ended up being very bad (tackle for loss).
Most zone read plays have the backside DE as the key defender and if the QB keeps, then he runs to the edge where the DE came from. Here, the 49ers key the DT (KShort). So Gabbert needs to read his own running lane, but the running lane is now up the A gap - right up the middle.

So if Short is his read on this play, and Short is unblocked heading straight for the HB, shouldn't the read be to not hand it off here?

Gabbert also sees an unblocked LB right where he is supposed to run. Are you suggesting he keeps the ball and runs up the middle into the MLB? Forget 59 because Gabbert probably doesn't see him, but 58 is just sitting there. Check out Gabbert's TD run and you'll see when it's the right decision to keep the ball.

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:25 PM

#119

SmokeCrabtrees
Veteran
Posts: 15,580

I think part of y'all concern is Chip gives the RB option to bounce it... Hyde went on record after yesterday's game that he IS bouncing around too much, he probably was a lil hesitant since he just overcame a concussion and the NFL protocol is crazy now. Seatless Dline is 3rd best behind LA and CAR...Agree?

Sep 19, 2016 at 1:27 PM

#120

SofaKing
Veteran
Posts: 27,442

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
So if Short is his read on this play, and Short is unblocked heading straight for the HB, shouldn't the read be to not hand it off here?

Good question. Seems to me that run play was doomed from the start. You have Short with a straight shot at Hyde, or Gabbert runs right up the middle with Davis and Keuchly waiting for him..Don't want to subject the QB to those hits. I don't blame him for handing off in that situation.

QB's job is to get yards and score points, not hand off the ball and take a sure loss to avoid contact.

I understand that, but he wasn't getting either on that play. Don't think any QB would run straight into two unblocked linebackers. That's just reckless.