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2016 Team Information (Needs)

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Paso--I believe upgrading five spots would elevate this team without 17 other spots you mention. But the five are very difficult to find:

  • OLB--a monster pass rusher. Pick among Harold, Lynch, Carradine and a draft pick/FA.
  • ILB--they need a younger healthy Willis...with better cover ability. That should be easy.

  • QB--finding a clutch, franchise QB may be a year or two away, develop a top draft pick or ?
  • C--if they had a top center who could anchor and withstand the toughest NT/DT it would make even our OGs much better.
  • OG/OT--if Brown is the RT of the future then they need a solid young OG to go with that center. If Brown is not ready they need to find a RT.

The team has enough talent to fill in the other positions adequately. Then it's up to coaching.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
In no particular order.
Whole New Front Office
About 20 high quality to nearly stud players added to the 53
All New coaching staff
Better turf

LOL...OK.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
In no particular order.
Whole New Front Office
About 20 high quality to nearly stud players added to the 53
All New coaching staff
Better turf

LOL...OK.
On a serious note I would add one more thing.
Jed joins Hair club for men.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thanks man...made me feel a bit better to break it down like this. Some may disagree on the categories but at least from my arm-chair-GM perspective, it does look like Baalke's in a much better position to rebuild than when he took over in 2010 from McNolan. If all goes well, this could be a legit squad going into 2017.

Confidence isn't there with me in "everything going well" because with Baalke having 23 draft picks in these last two years, I'm just not convinced he can build a championship level team. He had all the opportunity in the world. In a historic couple of war draft classes, Baalke managed to come away with Patton and Smelter. The only success stories I can see thru my futuristic glasses are Ward and Dial. Tartt looks upper level but not cornerstone and Reid looks more like J A G nowadays.

Bottom line for me is really breaking down the comparisons of Baalkes draft day moves he made and what he COULD have made to make us better. Too many questions coming up for justifying his moves instead of his moves giving us the answers.

Overall frustrated with Baalkes last three years here
O-Line and a punter. Keep Kap and Blaine, now that we know Gabbert can play let Kap do what he does best and stop trying to make him something he's not. During this last game I saw a couple of times where Gabbert had room to run and didn't, Kap would have busted off a long run or even a touch down. Specially designed plays for each of them and a rotation would keep DC guessing.
Paso--I believe upgrading five spots would elevate this team without 17 other spots you mention. But the five are very difficult to find:

  • OLB--a monster pass rusher. Pick among Harold, Lynch, Carradine and a draft pick/FA.
  • ILB--they need a younger healthy Willis...with better cover ability. That should be easy.

  • QB--finding a clutch, franchise QB may be a year or two away, develop a top draft pick or ?
  • C--if they had a top center who could anchor and withstand the toughest NT/DT it would make even our OGs much better.
  • OG/OT--if Brown is the RT of the future then they need a solid young OG to go with that center. If Brown is not ready they need to find a RT.

The team has enough talent to fill in the other positions adequately. Then it's up to coaching.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Paso--I believe upgrading five spots would elevate this team without 17 other spots you mention. But the five are very difficult to find:

  • OLB--a monster pass rusher. Pick among Harold, Lynch, Carradine and a draft pick/FA.
  • ILB--they need a younger healthy Willis...with better cover ability. That should be easy.
  • QB--finding a clutch, franchise QB may be a year or two away, develop a top draft pick or ?
  • C--if they had a top center who could anchor and withstand the toughest NT/DT it would make even our OGs much better.
  • OG/OT--if Brown is the RT of the future then they need a solid young OG to go with that center. If Brown is not ready they need to find a RT.

The team has enough talent to fill in the other positions adequately. Then it's up to coaching.

These are the ones. Aldon Smith's are not there every year. ILB? This is only an issue in Mangini's scheme...otherwise I really like Hodges and him continuing to grow next the "the man" in Bowman. QB...just got to watch the Bengals game (again, thought he played very well taking what the defense gave him and making plays when he could but we need a push starter, no doubt), thought Kilgore played well (when was the last time you saw a RB with huge holes to run against inside and off tackle (Draughn was crushing it until he got hurt) and Brown is just a wall to get around and with his long ass reach too? I'm excited about the kid. But like you said, we need to buy or hit on these key positions to win or push current starters. These are cornerstone positions. Period.
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
In no particular order.
Whole New Front Office
About 20 high quality to nearly stud players added to the 53
All New coaching staff
Better turf

LOL...OK.
On a serious note I would add one more thing.
Jed joins Hair club for men.

I'd pay to see that!
Originally posted by SFL49ER:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Thanks man...made me feel a bit better to break it down like this. Some may disagree on the categories but at least from my arm-chair-GM perspective, it does look like Baalke's in a much better position to rebuild than when he took over in 2010 from McNolan. If all goes well, this could be a legit squad going into 2017.

Confidence isn't there with me in "everything going well" because with Baalke having 23 draft picks in these last two years, I'm just not convinced he can build a championship level team. He had all the opportunity in the world. In a historic couple of war draft classes, Baalke managed to come away with Patton and Smelter. The only success stories I can see thru my futuristic glasses are Ward and Dial. Tartt looks upper level but not cornerstone and Reid looks more like J A G nowadays.

Bottom line for me is really breaking down the comparisons of Baalkes draft day moves he made and what he COULD have made to make us better. Too many questions coming up for justifying his moves instead of his moves giving us the answers.

Overall frustrated with Baalkes last three years here

You may not like that strategy (b/c he ignored the WR spot in the draft and instead, bought WR's in FA in Boldin, Johnson and T.Smith) but that strategy brought a slew of starters right now...the foundation he now has to build upon in year-2 of the rebuild. If you hit on .429 of your draft picks, you're doing fantastic. Baalke is well beyond that which is why he has a chance to build up this team a second time.

1 (15/15) DE Arik Armstead - Traded back to 17 and acquired 4 (18/117) in 2015 and Charger's 5th in 2016
2 (14/46) SS/ILB Jaquiski Tartt
3 (15/79) OLB Eli Harold
4 (14/114) To Buffalo for Stevie Johnson
4 (18/117) From San Diego TE Blake Bell
4 (27/127) From Denver RB Mike Davis
4 (33/132) Compensatory WR DeAndre Smelter
5 (15/151) - Traded back to the 5th (29/165) and acquired the Colt's 7th (27/244)
5 (29/165) P/PK Bradley Pinion
6 (14/189) T Ian Silberman
7 (27/244) From Indianapolis G Trenton Brown
7 (29/246) From Indianapolis - Traded for Dallas' 6th in 2016
7 (37/254) Compensatory H-Back Rory 'Busta' Anderson

2014: Trent Baalke
Jimmie Ward
Carlos Hyde
Marcus Martin – 3rd
Chris Borland
Brandon Thomas
Bruce Ellington
Dontae Johnson
Aaron Lynch – 5th
Keith Reaser
Kenneth Acker

2013: Trent Baalke
Eric Reid
Cornellius Carradine
Vance McDonald
Quinton Patton
Quinton Dial – 5th

Baalke's Hite-rate: .714 compared to NFL's .560 (1st and 2nd rounds)
Baalke's Hite-rate: .590 compared to NFL's .350 (2nd - 4th rounds)
Baalke's Hite-rate: .476 compared to NFL's .333 (5th - 7th rounds)
[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM ]
AB, on page 4, post 51, i was referring to our OC as being our HC. Otherwise as was mentioned, the list would be short to non existent. Ok, an OC/HC who is terrific also would have to be ready, willing and able to step in and run an entire team, plus do the OCing. That is the hook to get really quailfied OCs here. Exactly how Arians got to AZ, and that didn't work out too bad. He was as good at running a team as he was at OCing, and he was shid hot on that. So, Jed needs to set up 31 interviews with all OCs( except the obvious no nos), say 20-25 in all. Realistically the best ones probably are playing in Post season and wouldn't be ready until the first week after season ends when 2 more OCs are eligible for HC /OC interviews. Then next week, another 2 OCs are eligible, right on up until the final two are eligible the moment SB is over. We have not had an OC as HC since Yorks and Jed took over once mooch was gone ( and he was QB coach as i recall), but still O guy. It is of paramount importance that the HC be an OC, or if he is really great, then he is gone after yr 1, to HC elsewhere. We would just be eliminating that one step, and combining OC/HC to be able to interview all 31 OCs . Why this hasn' t been done in the past i don't know, but it is a major screwup and has caught up with us yrs ago. And please nobody tell me harbaw was an O guy when the QB whisperer was anything but ....he had no frigging idea what O was about.

The above also means that the moment this season ends, JEd must fire tomsula and start making as many OC interviews as possible for the OC/HC job. Payton has done it successfully in the past , bellicheat the same thing (tho he came from D he sure as hell learned the O and called it many yrs). So this is not an anamoly . It is what we should have done long ago.

And NC, the major difference on our lists is that i would not have pears nor martin still on there. Also i don't see kap nor our backup QBs on the team next yr either. And as for ILB, i don't think we need one....at least not as bad as the other 5 guys, 6 incl QB.

My suggestion for MUST NEEDS this yr were 5 guys, 3 OLs, one OT hopefully in draft, buy mack/pouncey, buy an OG, need a DT to replace Justin and an OLB passrusher to replace Aldon , darn him. As for QB, i am praying we can slither by with gab ...but first we have to know how he plays with an OL that can block. Plug these 5 basic holes first and then look for some UDFA Qbs, maybe hire one of the hasselback or other decent backup types who are on market. Get our QB next yr . I would say this yr if it were Cam, Mariotta, TBs QB,
and say a russ wilson. But since we got Goff and a couple others, i would not go the QB route first and gamble that blaine could be our bridge guy...unless we got really lucky and he was our franchise guy. No idea if that is in the cards or not. But that is what i would do in that i don't see any marquee QBs out there. Phoenix commented that there will be none the following yr, but that yr has yet to be played yet. So yes, i would roll the dice and hope gab can make it a yr. without tanking the team.

The other caveat is that this all presupposes that jed schidt cans tomsula et al, and, that he sixes him the minute our last game ends and he immediately starts on his interviews. Rest my case.

MB's 2016 Team Needs:

A. Offensive line

Yes, right tackle Anthony Davis might be back after taking a health-related year off, and he'll only be 26 when the regular season begins. But can the 49ers rely on him after he abruptly stepped away last June? Meanwhile, the team's best guards, Alex Boone and Andrew Tiller, are scheduled to be free agents while youngsters Marcus Martin, Brandon Thomas and Ian Silberman have yet to show they can even be quality backups.

B. Quarterback

Blaine Gabbert is virtually guaranteed to be on the roster given his affordable $2 million contract for next season, and it's a good bet he'll enter the offseason as the starter. But is he the long-term starter? That's something the 49ers must answer in 2016, and they can hedge their bets by drafting a quarterback early on, something they haven't done since taking Colin Kaepernick in the second round in 2011.

C. Pass rusher

This may have been ranked higher before rookie Eli Harold had his best game of the season on Sunday. He's got the frame to add plenty of muscle and could, in time, become a formidable bookend to Aaron Lynch. Still, Harold has nearly 300 defensive snaps this season but zero sacks. Neither does Corey Lemonier. Ahmad Brooks has become more nuisance than playmaker in recent years while Tank Carradine -- converting from 300-pound defensive end to outside linebacker -- is very much an experiment. That's a lot of question marks at a key position.

D. Defensive line

Some fans might faint if the team takes another lineman in the first round after selecting Arik Armstead in April. But their once impressive depth has dried up faster than a Central Valley reservoir. Glenn Dorsey (ACL) is unlikely to be on hand for the start of the season, Carradine is switching positions and Ian Williams is a free agent. Quick, someone find Darnell Dockett's phone number!

E. Wide receiver

Anquan Boldin, the 49ers' leading receiver the last three years, will be a free agent in March and will turn 36 in October. Baalke has been shy about taking receivers before the fourth round since using a first rounder on A.J. Jenkins in 2012. (Spoiler: Jenkins didn't work out all that well).

F. Running back

Carlos Hyde is a physical runner, so physical in fact that he can't last a full season as the team's workhorse. When 2015 ends, Hyde will have missed more games due to injury in two seasons than Frank Gore has missed in his last seven. Rookie Mike Davis, meanwhile, has 24 yards on 25 carries and is in danger of joining ex-Chief Donnell Bennett as the only running back since 1960 to fewer than one yard per carry with at least 25 rushes in one season.

G. Tight end

At one point this year, the 49ers thought the tight end corps was the strength of their offense. That's laughable now that we know how disinterested Vernon Davis was this season and how mistake-prone Vance McDonald has been. Rookies Blake Bell and Rory Anderson give the 49ers a foundation at the position. But are either top-end talents?

H. Inside linebacker

NaVorro Bowman made the Pro Bowl this year and his post-injury trajectory suggests he'll be even better next season. But the 49ers defense really ticks with two outstanding inside linebackers. Notre Dame's Jaylon Smith or UCLA's Myles Jack could be intriguing to Baalke in April.

I. Cornerback

Give Baalke credit: He's good at finding cornerback talent late in the draft. The problem is that it's Week 16 and the 49ers still haven't figured out whether Kenneth Acker -- or Dontae Johnson or Marcus Cromartie -- should start on the right side.

J. Kicker

Phil Dawson, a free-agent in March, easily could kick field goals next year at age 41. But if the 49ers are going to break in a new kicker, 2016, when there are unlikely to be any pressure-cooker attempts in January or February, might be a good year to do it.


Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article51471255.html#storylink=cpy
OK, to help put this rebuild into context, here are the number of NFL games these guys have played in for their careers up through 14 games of 2015 and how many seasons that's worth in football terms (i.e. football mileage on their bodies/experience).

Keep in mind, these are games played in...many players play just special teams, are limited role-players, split snaps, are coming back from injuries or have missed substantial time in their careers due to injuries, are just now starting, etc.

In short, the core of this new year-1 rebuild team is VERY young!

Our young core has barely played an average of 1.4 seasons worth of football so far, we have a number of others who need to be evaluated and thus far, have only averaged .5 of a seasons worth and our veteran cornerstones, 4 seasons worth. Even our QB's have only played between 2.2 and 3.6 seasons worth of football, which is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Our older veterans (3) average 10 seasons worth and the free agents (3) we should strongly consider resigning, only average 2.7 seasons worth of football.



[ Edited by NCommand on Dec 26, 2015 at 7:20 AM ]
NC all points well made and there surely is a bunch of young 'uns out there on our squad. Currently , trent has 14 picks ( i think), and a substantial amount of cap space, even more when kap leaves. So what i believe, for the first time ever , that trent needs to, or has to do (would be more accurate), is to draft/FA the 5 big ones we HAVE TO HAVE. They are no surprise to anyone:

3 starting OLs, with an OT higher in the draft than we have the pick , so trent needs to trade up to get the top OT in the draft...or one of the two top OTs. Then ne needs to buy Mack or Pouncey at C, then needs to buy a starting OG. If too expensive, we have to buy him anyway. But he must be a starter quality.

1 OLB passrusher to replace Aldon....cut in the Von Miller mold.

1 DT to replace Justin and this guy must be a bona fide starter.

I would not draft a high round QB this yr, pending seeing how blaine plays with a very good OL in front of him.

So those 5 guys. We have to have the 3 starting OLs. We have to have the starting DT. And we have to have the starting OLB passrusher to replace aldon.

14 picks. It is baalke's turn to show us what a great GM does,. IF he fails in this, then i would want to see him gone. IF he brings 14 picks to camp, then i feel he has missed the boat, and is not deserving of being the GM here. His job is to bring the rain. Ok, there is a horrible drought right now and it is otherwise known as the 49ers. Either he gets us those 5 guys or I would want to get a better GM who can pull something like this off.

The all ACL teams have not worked out that well for us. Drafting for the future is fine....if your team is set now. Actually with the 19 injuries last yr and the 16 or so this yr, our team is far, far from being set. We need talent and we need it badly at the 5 slots noted above. Plus i didn't even address the obvious need for QB but am hoping that with a decent OL that blaine can serve as our bridge qb next yr and then set about getting the best Qb in the 2017 draft. TRade all our picks if needed. Parenthetically, PHoenix has stated that there are way better qbs this yr than in 2017. Maybe, but 2017 hasn't even been played yet, so i disagree on that basis. Sure it is a gamble to have blaine be the appointed qb for 2016, but i am saying see what he can do with a real OL and then decide if we need a franchise qb in 2017. Remember , RAvens won a SB with trent dilfer and the schidt hot D of that yr.

What i don't want to see and we can't afford to see, are a bunch of picks, say oh, 14 or so, but only 1 or possibly two are starters. We need bona fide starter at the 5 slots noted above, and if baalke cannot come close, then i want someone else as GM who can bring home the bacon. Harbaw's killer mistake was not finding out what was on the bench. Tomsula's killer mistake (of his many) was playing guys and then not changing them out once it was established they couldn't cut it.

Finally, is is obvious that trent got a good guy as HC, but who was Peter's principle personified. If he can't see the need to schidt can tomsula, then fire him too. I believe he is a smart guy and can see the obvious. But in addition to firing tomsula, or rather promoting him to DL coach, this is the moment where the rubber hits the road. IF trent cannot get at least 4 great starters with our higher end draft and hopefully burns picks to ,move up...across the board, and in addition, say get a guy somewhat like a Justin, so we get 5 great starters, then trent has failed as GM. He has had plenty of flame outs , he has some interesting young guys. NOW is the time for him to produce those 5 starters at the positions we need so badly. He can do it. Question is will he? As for HC, the biggest need, that should be easy if he offers the best OC out there the HC/OC job, and has the guy run both entities initially.

It trent brings 14 guys to camp, many unnknown, injured, or question marks, then it is high time for trent to be moved on....as in to elsewhere. I fully expect him to bundle 5s, 6s and 7s into 4s and maybe a 3. Then bundle those into a couple more 2s, and with luck try and bundle a pair of 2s for another #1 , plus we get to keep our own #2. Do that and he is my GM forever. Pull off the same draft we have seen 3 or 4 times in a row, now, and he deserves firing.

As for tomsula, if he stays, then trent has failed miserably in his job. Tomsula HAS TO go.. dealt a bad hand or not, the guy is an excellent DL coach. But that is it. He cannot remain as HC and trent needs to interview with jed, all 31(ok, eliminate the handful of dogs and interview the top 25, for example) OCs for the OC/HC job. Take the one that is best and make him the new OC/HC. Again, if trent is unable to pull that off, then he has overstayed his welcome.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Dec 26, 2015 at 8:56 PM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

My suggestion for MUST NEEDS this yr were 5 guys, 3 OLs, one OT hopefully in draft, buy mack/pouncey, buy an OG, need a DT to replace Justin and an OLB passrusher to replace Aldon , darn him. As for QB, i am praying we can slither by with gab ...but first we have to know how he plays with an OL that can block. Plug these 5 basic holes first and then look for some UDFA Qbs, maybe hire one of the hasselback or other decent backup types who are on market. Get our QB next yr . I would say this yr if it were Cam, Mariotta, TBs QB.

Maddog and others are all over the draft right now...he's already noted he's got potentially SIX OT's going in the first round. That is great news for us...he's currently evaluating the interior OL and QB's as well. This is great news for us because that gives Baalke more flexibility in terms of BPA and/or trading back.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
NC all points well made and there surely is a bunch of young 'uns out there on our squad. Currently , trent has 14 picks ( i think), and a substantial amount of cap space, even more when kap leaves. So what i believe, for the first time ever , that trent needs to, or has to do (would be more accurate), is to draft/FA the 5 big ones we HAVE TO HAVE. They are no surprise to anyone:

3 starting OLs, with an OT higher in the draft than we have the pick , so trent needs to trade up to get the top OT in the draft...or one of the two top OTs. Then ne needs to buy Mack or Pouncey at C, then needs to buy a starting OG. If too expensive, we have to buy him anyway. But he must be a starter quality.

1 OLB passrusher to replace Aldon....cut in the Von Miller mold.

1 DT to replace Justin and this guy must be a bona fide starter.

I would not draft a high round QB this yr, pending seeing how blaine plays with a very good OL in front of him.

So those 5 guys. We have to have the 3 starting OLs. We have to have the starting DT. And we have to have the starting OLB passrusher to replace aldon.

14 picks. It is baalke's turn to show us what a great GM does,. IF he fails in this, then i would want to see him gone. IF he brings 14 picks to camp, then i feel he has missed the boat, and is not deserving of being the GM here. His job is to bring the rain. Ok, there is a horrible drought right now and it is otherwise known as the 49ers. Either he gets us those 5 guys or I would want to get a better GM who can pull something like this off.

The all ACL teams have not worked out that well for us. Drafting for the future is fine....if your team is set now. Actually with the 19 injuries last yr and the 16 or so this yr, our team is far, far from being set. We need talent and we need it badly at the 5 slots noted above. Plus i didn't even address the obvious need for QB but am hoping that with a decent OL that blaine can serve as our bridge qb next yr and then set about getting the best Qb in the 2017 draft. TRade all our picks if needed. Parenthetically, PHoenix has stated that there are way better qbs this yr than in 2017. Maybe, but 2017 hasn't even been played yet, so i disagree on that basis. Sure it is a gamble to have blaine be the appointed qb for 2016, but i am saying see what he can do with a real OL and then decide if we need a franchise qb in 2017. Remember , RAvens won a SB with trent dilfer and the schidt hot D of that yr.

What i don't want to see and we can't afford to see, are a bunch of picks, say oh, 14 or so, but only 1 or possibly two are starters. We need bona fide starter at the 5 slots noted above, and if baalke cannot come close, then i want someone else as GM who can bring home the bacon. Harbaw's killer mistake was not finding out what was on the bench. Tomsula's killer mistake (of his many) was playing guys and then not changing them out once it was established they couldn't cut it.

Finally, is is obvious that trent got a good guy as HC, but who was Peter's principle personified. If he can't see the need to schidt can tomsula, then fire him too. I believe he is a smart guy and can see the obvious. But in addition to firing tomsula, or rather promoting him to DL coach, this is the moment where the rubber hits the road. IF trent cannot get at least 4 great starters with our higher end draft and hopefully burns picks to ,move up...across the board, and in addition, say get a guy somewhat like a Justin, so we get 5 great starters, then trent has failed as GM. He has had plenty of flame outs , he has some interesting young guys. NOW is the time for him to produce those 5 starters at the positions we need so badly. He can do it. Question is will he? As for HC, the biggest need, that should be easy if he offers the best OC out there the HC/OC job, and has the guy run both entities initially.

It trent brings 14 guys to camp, many unnknown, injured, or question marks, then it is high time for trent to be moved on....as in to elsewhere. I fully expect him to bundle 5s, 6s and 7s into 4s and maybe a 3. Then bundle those into a couple more 2s, and with luck try and bundle a pair of 2s for another #1 , plus we get to keep our own #2. Do that and he is my GM forever. Pull off the same draft we have seen 3 or 4 times in a row, now, and he deserves firing.

As for tomsula, if he stays, then trent has failed miserably in his job. Tomsula HAS TO go.. dealt a bad hand or not, the guy is an excellent DL coach. But that is it. He cannot remain as HC and trent needs to interview with jed, all 31(ok, eliminate the handful of dogs and interview the top 25, for example) OCs for the OC/HC job. Take the one that is best and make him the new OC/HC. Again, if trent is unable to pull that off, then he has overstayed his welcome.

What's encouraging about that list above is that many of those players listed in the Core category (22) are already playing at high levels compared to their peers. That's encouraging given there was a QB mid-season change and most importantly, these young players had to learn a brand new offensive and defensive scheme this off season and on-the-fly (i.e. less than 1.4 seasons worth of football). It's hard to be young and develop but it's even harder when learning two of the most complicated systems in the pro game...the WCO (GeepLo) + Zone Defense (Mangini's). Also, our cornerstone veterans, QB and internal FA-targets all have very low mileage on them as well. That's what you want when rebuilding. The older FA's (3) are also great long-standing performers and leaders at their positions and could be excellent "teachers" next year for our young heir's (if we choose to keep them).

I also have a feeling, about half a dozen other players may come from this young-evaluation group as well:



In short, you already know you've got many quality starters already with more to come. It's too early to tell who will start to climb up their respective peer groups into top echelon players over time. That's gong to take some time...years actually.
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