Are we the worst team in The NFL?

Originally posted by amir_tn80:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Way to early to tell if we're the worst team. Give it another 4 or 5 games and we should know more.

Bottom 5 for sure.

#1 draft pick next year

Will draft a Safety projected to go in the 3rd round.

recovering from a torn ACL and torn Achilles

With trichotillomania and erectile dysfunction.

And we'll play him at corner when he's ready to play in 2019.

lmao

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Way to early to tell if we're the worst team. Give it another 4 or 5 games and we should know more.

Bottom 5 for sure.

#1 draft pick next year

Will draft a Safety projected to go in the 3rd round.

recovering from a torn ACL and torn Achilles

With trichotillomania and erectile dysfunction.

sounds about right

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Way to early to tell if we're the worst team. Give it another 4 or 5 games and we should know more.

Bottom 5 for sure.

#1 draft pick next year

Will draft a Safety projected to go in the 3rd round.

recovering from a torn ACL and torn Achilles

With trichotillomania and erectile dysfunction.

sounds about right

he will also have a raging case of halitosis and his nick name is "Frosted Flakes"

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Way to early to tell if we're the worst team. Give it another 4 or 5 games and we should know more.

Bottom 5 for sure.

#1 draft pick next year

Will draft a Safety projected to go in the 3rd round.

recovering from a torn ACL and torn Achilles

With trichotillomania and erectile dysfunction.

sounds about right

he will also have a raging case of halitosis and his nick name is "Frosted Flakes"

He will also be suspended for 8 games for violating league behavior policy when he comes back from his red shirt season (or seasons).

Originally posted by amir_tn80:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by luv49rs:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Way to early to tell if we're the worst team. Give it another 4 or 5 games and we should know more.

Bottom 5 for sure.

#1 draft pick next year

Will draft a Safety projected to go in the 3rd round.

recovering from a torn ACL and torn Achilles

With trichotillomania and erectile dysfunction.

sounds about right

he will also have a raging case of halitosis and his nick name is "Frosted Flakes"

He will also be suspended for 8 games for violating league behavior policy when he comes back from his red shirt season (or seasons).

After a storied career at South Carolina.

Reid's nickname should be scrambled egg head
soon all of our defenders will have nicknames
we'll be known as the Breakfast Club

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Still hard to say. I had a ton of confidence in this coaching staff b/c of how they attacked our weaknesses from last year. Baalke added some talent via the draft and FA and on paper, there is a lot of talent and depth, nice mix of veteran players with playoff experience coupled with some 2nd year players starting for the first time, etc. Looked good. The Vikings game showed how we can play...showed us our winning formula (dominant run game, timely, uptempo efficient passing game, aggressive defense, etc.).

Then...

The coaches went full 2014 again and abandoned everything that was working and that they built upon through TC. We got down so quickly and the game plans were so bad to begin with, I can't even assess our talent now...not to mention players such as Ward and Tartt are barely on the field...same with Bush, White as a WR, Ellington, etc.

My biggest concern is the coaching staff (not talent save for the OL which just stinks at pass protection, game plans and personnel choices and late, if any adjustments. They did not seem to learn from the Steelers game and that is a HUGE red flag for me.

We still need much more time to truly assess everything but time is running out quickly for this staff to right this ship.

I think you greatly over estimated the talent on this roster and the coaching ability of the staff. I also think you grossly under estimated how hard it is to win games in the National Football League. The talent on the Oline is the worst I've seen on a 49er team in 30 years of watching football. Only two of the starters have any business starting games in the NFL. Things will not improve in my opinion until a complete house cleaning is done but Im not sure Jed will admit his mistake in one year. He may bring this mickey mouse operation back another year just out of stubbornness and cheapness.

Of the 30 starting positions we have...
Veteran Starters (3 or more years of experience) - 19 (Average Age = 7+ years)
Veterans with Playoff Experience - 17
Veterans Starters with No Playoff Experience - 2 (Erik Pears & Kyle Nelson)
Second Year Starter - 1 (Jimmie Ward)
First Year Starters - 7 (All of these players have 2 years of NFL experience in our systems)
Rookie Starters - 3 (Jarryd Hayne, Jaquiski Tartt & Bradley Pinion)

I'm not sure I overestimated talent here. This is proven talent here. And most of the second year players are playing pretty well. Don't think this is a question of talent as it is coaching, like you say. If these proven playoff experienced vets are blowing their lids, throwing their hands up in disgust and lost within the systems, then there is something systematically wrong here. Clearly. And to me...and you...that comes down to coaching and putting your players in the best places to succeed.

I'm very surprised by the last two outcomes but only b/c the coaches have gone away from all the areas they were focused on in TC...identifying all the strengths/weaknesses of each player, QB-friendly offense, timely blitzes, gone away from pattern matching, continuing to play guys like Patton, more injuries with McDonald, VD, Bell, Ellington, Bush, no Tartt, bits of Ward, Johnson, etc.

As to the OL...100% agree. Every win is in the trenches. We all agreed on that. Without that, you're getting what you're seeing...a pissed off Boldin ,T.Smith, reliant on Hyde, CK playing the worst game of his career, skill position players pressing, etc.

OL + Coaches (philosophy/scheme) seems to be the two biggest culprits right now. You can somewhat scheme around poor pass protection but I have no answers for what Mangini is trying to prove right now.

Does cleaning house from your GM down ever work? Real question...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Still hard to say. I had a ton of confidence in this coaching staff b/c of how they attacked our weaknesses from last year. Baalke added some talent via the draft and FA and on paper, there is a lot of talent and depth, nice mix of veteran players with playoff experience coupled with some 2nd year players starting for the first time, etc. Looked good. The Vikings game showed how we can play...showed us our winning formula (dominant run game, timely, uptempo efficient passing game, aggressive defense, etc.).

Then...

The coaches went full 2014 again and abandoned everything that was working and that they built upon through TC. We got down so quickly and the game plans were so bad to begin with, I can't even assess our talent now...not to mention players such as Ward and Tartt are barely on the field...same with Bush, White as a WR, Ellington, etc.

My biggest concern is the coaching staff (not talent save for the OL which just stinks at pass protection, game plans and personnel choices and late, if any adjustments. They did not seem to learn from the Steelers game and that is a HUGE red flag for me.

We still need much more time to truly assess everything but time is running out quickly for this staff to right this ship.

I think you greatly over estimated the talent on this roster and the coaching ability of the staff. I also think you grossly under estimated how hard it is to win games in the National Football League. The talent on the Oline is the worst I've seen on a 49er team in 30 years of watching football. Only two of the starters have any business starting games in the NFL. Things will not improve in my opinion until a complete house cleaning is done but Im not sure Jed will admit his mistake in one year. He may bring this mickey mouse operation back another year just out of stubbornness and cheapness.

Of the 30 starting positions we have...
Veteran Starters (3 or more years of experience) - 19 (Average Age = 7+ years)
Veterans with Playoff Experience - 17
Veterans Starters with No Playoff Experience - 2 (Erik Pears & Kyle Nelson)
Second Year Starter - 1 (Jimmie Ward)
First Year Starters - 7 (All of these players have 2 years of NFL experience in our systems)
Rookie Starters - 3 (Jarryd Hayne, Jaquiski Tartt & Bradley Pinion)

I'm not sure I overestimated talent here. This is proven talent here. And most of the second year players are playing pretty well. Don't think this is a question of talent as it is coaching, like you say. If these proven playoff experienced vets are blowing their lids, throwing their hands up in disgust and lost within the systems, then there is something systematically wrong here. Clearly. And to me...and you...that comes down to coaching and putting your players in the best places to succeed.

I'm very surprised by the last two outcomes but only b/c the coaches have gone away from all the areas they were focused on in TC...identifying all the strengths/weaknesses of each player, QB-friendly offense, timely blitzes, gone away from pattern matching, continuing to play guys like Patton, more injuries with McDonald, VD, Bell, Ellington, Bush, no Tartt, bits of Ward, Johnson, etc.

As to the OL...100% agree. Every win is in the trenches. We all agreed on that. Without that, you're getting what you're seeing...a pissed off Boldin ,T.Smith, reliant on Hyde, CK playing the worst game of his career, skill position players pressing, etc.

OL + Coaches (philosophy/scheme) seems to be the two biggest culprits right now. You can somewhat scheme around poor pass protection but I have no answers for what Mangini is trying to prove right now.

Does cleaning house from your GM down ever work? Real question...

Many of the playoff experienced vets are past their primes VD, Brooks, Boldin and a limited Bowman. Reid is not the same either because he is very timid and does not fly around a like a FS should. Yes the defensive scheme is bad I knew this would happen with young players and mangini has never been a great defensive mind IMO.

I think a house does work sometimes, I think sometimes it takes a fresh direction to change the course of the franchise. JMHO

Originally posted by jwjr49er:
There is no doubt in my mind....we are

No we actually have weapons on offense and the left side of the line is decent.

With Kilgore, Bush and Ellington back in play things will improve.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Still hard to say. I had a ton of confidence in this coaching staff b/c of how they attacked our weaknesses from last year. Baalke added some talent via the draft and FA and on paper, there is a lot of talent and depth, nice mix of veteran players with playoff experience coupled with some 2nd year players starting for the first time, etc. Looked good. The Vikings game showed how we can play...showed us our winning formula (dominant run game, timely, uptempo efficient passing game, aggressive defense, etc.).

Then...

The coaches went full 2014 again and abandoned everything that was working and that they built upon through TC. We got down so quickly and the game plans were so bad to begin with, I can't even assess our talent now...not to mention players such as Ward and Tartt are barely on the field...same with Bush, White as a WR, Ellington, etc.

My biggest concern is the coaching staff (not talent save for the OL which just stinks at pass protection, game plans and personnel choices and late, if any adjustments. They did not seem to learn from the Steelers game and that is a HUGE red flag for me.

We still need much more time to truly assess everything but time is running out quickly for this staff to right this ship.

I think you greatly over estimated the talent on this roster and the coaching ability of the staff. I also think you grossly under estimated how hard it is to win games in the National Football League. The talent on the Oline is the worst I've seen on a 49er team in 30 years of watching football. Only two of the starters have any business starting games in the NFL. Things will not improve in my opinion until a complete house cleaning is done but Im not sure Jed will admit his mistake in one year. He may bring this mickey mouse operation back another year just out of stubbornness and cheapness.

Of the 30 starting positions we have...
Veteran Starters (3 or more years of experience) - 19 (Average Age = 7+ years)
Veterans with Playoff Experience - 17
Veterans Starters with No Playoff Experience - 2 (Erik Pears & Kyle Nelson)
Second Year Starter - 1 (Jimmie Ward)
First Year Starters - 7 (All of these players have 2 years of NFL experience in our systems)
Rookie Starters - 3 (Jarryd Hayne, Jaquiski Tartt & Bradley Pinion)

I'm not sure I overestimated talent here. This is proven talent here. And most of the second year players are playing pretty well. Don't think this is a question of talent as it is coaching, like you say. If these proven playoff experienced vets are blowing their lids, throwing their hands up in disgust and lost within the systems, then there is something systematically wrong here. Clearly. And to me...and you...that comes down to coaching and putting your players in the best places to succeed.

I'm very surprised by the last two outcomes but only b/c the coaches have gone away from all the areas they were focused on in TC...identifying all the strengths/weaknesses of each player, QB-friendly offense, timely blitzes, gone away from pattern matching, continuing to play guys like Patton, more injuries with McDonald, VD, Bell, Ellington, Bush, no Tartt, bits of Ward, Johnson, etc.

As to the OL...100% agree. Every win is in the trenches. We all agreed on that. Without that, you're getting what you're seeing...a pissed off Boldin ,T.Smith, reliant on Hyde, CK playing the worst game of his career, skill position players pressing, etc.

OL + Coaches (philosophy/scheme) seems to be the two biggest culprits right now. You can somewhat scheme around poor pass protection but I have no answers for what Mangini is trying to prove right now.

Does cleaning house from your GM down ever work? Real question...

Many of the playoff experienced vets are past their primes VD, Brooks, Boldin and a limited Bowman. Reid is not the same either because he is very timid and does not fly around a like a FS should. Yes the defensive scheme is bad I knew this would happen with young players and mangini has never been a great defensive mind IMO.

I think a house does work sometimes, I think sometimes it takes a fresh direction to change the course of the franchise. JMHO

Are they? And you may be right...but:
VD is still very fast, can still block and has only had a few targets this year. And he still needs to be accounted for and included in the offense (both run and pass) - (scheme?)
Brooks...hard to tell given he's covering 40% of the time now (scheme?)
Bowman...seems like he's stuck in coverage even more than Lynch/Brooks. But agreed, he's not 100% yet and Mangini has him playing 100% of the snaps coming off a major knee injury (scheme + stupid personnel move?)
Reid...same concept...looks as lost or late as Bethea, Acker, Brock, Wilhoite, etc. (scheme?)

Colin Kaepernick (5) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Reggie Bush (10) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Vernon Davis (10) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Bruce Miller (5) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Torrey Smith (5) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Anquan Boldin (13) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Joe Staley (9) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Alex Boone (6) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Erik Pears (9) - Veteran Starter (No)
Ian Williams (5) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Glenn Dorsey (8) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Ahmad Brooks (10) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Michael Wilhoite (4) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Navarro Bowman (6) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Tramaine Brock (6) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Eric Reid (3) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Antoine Bethea (10) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Kyle Nelson (4) - Veteran Starter (No)
Phil Dawson (17) - Veteran Starter (Yes)
Ward, Jimmie (2) - Second Year Starter(No)
Carlos Hyde (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Bruce Ellington (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Marcus Martin (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Jordan Devey (2) - First Year Starter (Yes)
Quinton Dial (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Aaron Lynch (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Kenneth Acker (2) - First Year Starter (No)
Jarryd Hayne (0) - Rookie Starter (No)
Jaquiski Tartt (0) - Rookie Starter (No)
Bradley Pinion (0) - Rookie Year Starter (No)

Again, with time, we'll truly know more if talent or scheme is the issue...or learning curve or a combination of all. Either way, right now, it's frustrating for us all and esp. the players.

That would be one of the biggest undertakings ever in the NFL...from GM all the way down to the water boy. I get your desire for that right now, but dayem man, this ain't Madden! LOL

Well in the dark days the Niners were in the NFC Worst, so they would get a few NFC West wins and some other wins. With the present schedule the only game that appears winnable is the Browns. That could be the game that the teams battle for the first pick in the draft, the loser actually wins.

So happy I did not pay for a PSL at the POS new stadium in Santa Clara.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Of the 30 starting positions we have...
Veteran Starters (3 or more years of experience) - 19 (Average Age = 7+ years)
Veterans with Playoff Experience - 17
Veterans Starters with No Playoff Experience - 2 (Erik Pears & Kyle Nelson)
Second Year Starter - 1 (Jimmie Ward)
First Year Starters - 7 (All of these players have 2 years of NFL experience in our systems)
Rookie Starters - 3 (Jarryd Hayne, Jaquiski Tartt & Bradley Pinion)

I'm not sure I overestimated talent here. This is proven talent here. And most of the second year players are playing pretty well. Don't think this is a question of gradient as it is coaching, like you say. If these proven playoff experienced vets are blowing their lids, throwing their hands up in disgust and lost within the systems, then there is something systematically wrong here. Clearly. And to me...and you...that comes down to coaching and putting your players in the best places to succeed.

I'm very surprised by the last two outcomes but only b/c the coaches have gone away from all the areas they were focused on in TC...identifying all the strengths/weaknesses of each player, QB-friendly offense, timely blitzes, gone away from pattern matching, continuing to play guys like Patton, more injuries with McDonald, VD, Bell, Ellington, Bush, no Tartt, bits of Ward, Johnson, etc.

As to the OL...100% agree. Every win is in the trenches. We all agreed on that. Without that, you're getting what you're seeing...a pissed off Boldin ,T.Smith, reliant on Hyde, CK playing the worst game of his career, skill position players pressing, etc.

OL + Coaches (philosophy/scheme) seems to be the two biggest culprits right now. You can somewhat scheme around poor pass protection but I have no answers for what Mangini is trying to prove right now.

Does cleaning house from your GM down ever work? Real question...

I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

Originally posted by TTown9ers:

I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

I've been saying the same thing for the past 4 seasons. How some expected coach Harbaugh to win a Superbowl with the rosters he was given still blows me away. Hell Seattle's players were constantly bragging about how slow the 49ers offense was yet we all sat here and watched Baalke swing and miss on skill player after skill player. Would love to see how Harbaugh did with his own players and personnel control which he should've been given no questions asked. Now we all get to watch him take a bunch of scrubs at Michigan from the toilet to a top 25 program in 4 games.

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

Most of that non-elite talent you are referring to went to Superbowls but now that's discredited? Come on. We all know these are proven, talented players but right now, something is amiss. My guess...just a guess...but philosophy/scheme/playing while thinking is the issue here. It's only game 3 but like you, we're all not pleased with how we've looked. To me, that's on the coaches. They've completely gone away from addressing the issues the previous coaching staff was fired for. In fact, they are making 2014 look good. That said, on paper, you've got a people-manager HC. That's fine. You've got a very experienced coaching staff with two big questions coming in: Geep + Mangini.

As we're seeing with Fangio/Donatell, sometimes change ends up being a lose-lose. Hell, Roman is leading the NFL as a running game coordinator (only) for the Bills. Go figure...

So from GM down, who do you have in mind in the real world?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

Most of that non-elite talent you are referring to went to Superbowls but now that's discredited? Come on. We all know these are proven, talented players but right now, something is amiss. My guess...just a guess...but philosophy/scheme/playing while thinking is the issue here. It's only game 3 but like you, we're all not pleased with how we've looked. To me, that's on the coaches. They've completely gone away from addressing the issues the previous coaching staff was fired for. In fact, they are making 2014 look good. That said, on paper, you've got a people-manager HC. That's fine. You've got a very experienced coaching staff with two big questions coming in: Geep + Mangini.

As we're seeing with Fangio/Donatell, sometimes change ends up being a lose-lose. Hell, Roman is leading the NFL as a running game coordinator (only) for the Bills. Go figure...

So from GM down, who do you have in mind in the real world?

Well the GM picked the coaches and Im sure the GM wants this scheme to be ran. Its all that GMs show right now.