Are we the worst team in The NFL?

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Actually we have great wrs and I'm sure their play is great however when the qb is getting pressured the most in the NFL and running for his life, wrs are not to blame. I guess jimmy graham isn't doing a good job either bc on Seattle he sucks. I guess Bree's and rw aren't doing a good job either Peyton manning is not doing well at all.

It's almost entirely on the ol.

great WRs? lol...I would say teams like ATL, Lions, Packers (when all healthy), those teams have great WRs. Unless you consider Boldin in the same class as Julio, Dez, Johnson, etc...

No actually those are excellent wrs but guess what.....atl has no second wr that compares to smith. Roddy white is done. So again like I SAID, THE COMBO of boldin and t smith are in fact great. Not as good of a core as GB but Dallas and atl number ones are excellent but have no #2 like the Niners have. So again, don't know why you are making a point when two of players on the teams you mentioned have no second wr that is decent. The Niners ol is the culprit here bc of an injury and a surprise retirement. Sucks.

Also, as command pointed out last year the Niners absolutely kicked ass without a ridiculous amount of talent. Now we got some of it back and aren't even close to top 5. That's on the genius DC running move zones and cover 2. Stupid IMO and it better get fixed soon.

I still can't believe Martin is still at center and no changes to rg or rt yet. Un f**king believable.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

This man is correct!

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Very close to it. And actually it would be a lot better if we were. Whats the point in 2 or 3 "moral" victories only to have Baalke select an ACL project and other rejects that don't and cant contribute (Root of the 49ers problems).

lol ... your right... SMH... how far this proud franchise has fallen.

Maybe coached, but not from a personnel stand point.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

I don't think I'm understanding what you are saying. Borland played 14 games and Smith played all 16 games last year, what do you mean they weren't on the field? And we already had a good scheme in place as well, so I'm not surprised we were still a good defense even with some starters injured. But we were no where close to being the same defense that we were in '13, and especially in '12.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

I don't think I'm understanding what you are saying. Borland played 14 games and Smith played all 16 games last year, what do you mean they weren't on the field? And we already had a good scheme in place as well, so I'm not surprised we were still a good defense even with some starters injured. But we were no where close to being the same defense that we were in '13, and especially in '12.

Nope. Borland got hurt again and Moody had to play for him. Justin, again, couldn't finish out the final 3 games d/t lingering injuries so Tank finished for him. "Some" starters. Now you're just minimizing reality.

There were massive key injuries last year and with a peace-meal defense, we finished the same as every year...top 5 defense.

Then Baalke added more talent to that group and guys like Acker, Reaser, Ward, Brock, etc came back from that IR list.

The point? The talent and depth THIS year is significantly greater than last year.

Players like Bowman, Reid and Bethea look lost right now b/c they are learning a new scheme and d/t personnel and coaching decisions...not lack of talent.

I'm sure you get this objectively. If not, you may have a clear agenda.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Players like Bowman, Reid and Bethea look lost right now b/c they are learning a new scheme and d/t personnel and coaching decisions...not lack of talent.

I'm sure you get this objectively. If not, you may have a clear agenda.

When some of us said mangini's complicated scheme would take time to learn and we might look really bad in the beggining even if this would actually work, we were assured that was also our "agendas" talking then too.

And these guys would pick it up fast, continuity with the players etc etc...

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Players like Bowman, Reid and Bethea look lost right now b/c they are learning a new scheme and d/t personnel and coaching decisions...not lack of talent.

I'm sure you get this objectively. If not, you may have a clear agenda.

When some of us said mangini's complicated scheme would take time to learn and we might look really bad in the beggining even if this would actually work, we were assured that was also our "agendas" talking then too.

And these guys would pick it up fast, continuity with the players etc etc...

LOL. I'm fairly certain if that is how it was phrased nobody would claim you would have had an agenda. That actually sounds rather logical.

I can personally say I didn't expect this b/c I was under the impression (now wrong) that Mangini would employ the same defense as Fangio with pattern matching (his own history too) but also throw in his own touch/style - some more blitzes, some more pre and post snap confusion, some better personnel match-ups like four safeties and match-ups like Reaser on a speed demon or Johnson on a big slot WR or TE, etc.

Instead I'm seeing the polar opposite of Fangio's defense and I hate it. Every bit of it.

I have this team picking in the top ten. Logically, how do you expect otherwise with this offseason?

And I was one of those that expected otherwise.


I still feel Kaep is the QB; everything else is up for debate.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

you dedicated the entire off season to downplaying our losses and now you are singing a different tune

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:
I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

you dedicated the entire off season to downplaying our losses and now you are singing a different tune

I don't think NC is singing a different tune. What we are seeing "based on three games" is the logical extent of NC's negative hypothesis. His assessments have been far more realistic than mine.

FYI, he's one of the few posters that I've actually learned something rather than just rolling my eyes at superficial knee jerk crap assessments.

Originally posted by Geeked:

Originally posted by monsterzero789:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

I'll let you do all that work, and then I'll either agree or disagree with it

Haha. Not fair!

OK here is a sample. Culliver, Brock Willis, Williams, Dorsey, Justin, Bowman, Borland, etc. were not on the field. Guys like Moody, Wilhoite, TJE, Carradine, Cromartie, Dahl and McFadden were starting.

Most of the 19 players on I.R. were defensive starters. Big name starters.

Despite it all, we ended the year top 5 defense ahead of Seattle. #7 against the run with Dial at NT (he's 6'6"), Justin most of the year and TJE along the DL. #5 in the NFL in pass defense with Cox, Culliver, Ward, Johnson, Brock, McFadden, Cromartie and Dahl in and out of the lineup all year.

#1 in turnovers.

THIS years defense and depth is significantly greater than that insane 2014 lineup that finished top 5 and there is no other way to spin an agenda here no matter how much you hate Baalke.

These are new defensive philosophy, scheme and coaching issues. Not talent. Health isn't even an issue either.

you dedicated the entire off season to downplaying our losses and now you are singing a different tune

I don't think NC is singing a different tune. What we are seeing "based on three games" is the logical extent of NC's negative hypothesis. His assessments have been far more realistic than mine.

FYI, he's one of the few posters that I've actually learned something rather than just rolling my eyes at superficial knee jerk crap assessments.

Thanks man.

As to monster, like I've said 100 times, I call it based on evidence. What I saw in pre season gave me hope. I know we have talent on this team. But what I've seen on defense is NOT the direction I was lead to believe. At all. I'll still be patient but if enough evidence is presented, like with HaRoman, I'll be the first to change my tune. You can count on it.