Are we the worst team in The NFL?

Everything coincided with the team getting a Stadium and a Super Bowl. They brought in a real coach in Harbaugh and became one of the elite teams in the NFL. As soon as all the luxury boxes and season tickets were secured for the foreseeable future it was back to saving millions on a new coach and a bargain basement staff. You have to wonder, maybe this franchise does not care about winning. The money is secure and maybe that's the name of the game. It could be that Dr. York's Super Bowl is the bank statement at the end of each quarter.

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

This is true. I think that maybe 7 of our 22 starters on offense or defense are above average NFL starters. (Staley, Boone, Hyde, Bowman, Brooks, Reid, Bethea) And a couple of those are debatable.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Everything coincided with the team getting a Stadium and a Super Bowl. They brought in a real coach in Harbaugh and became one of the elite teams in the NFL. As soon as all the luxury boxes and season tickets were secured for the foreseeable future it was back to saving millions on a new coach and a bargain basement staff. You have to wonder, maybe this franchise does not care about winning. The money is secure and maybe that's the name of the game. It could be that Dr. York's Super Bowl is the bank statement at the end of each quarter.

I don't think jed REALLY cares about winning.

Originally posted by susweel:
Well the GM picked the coaches and Im sure the GM wants this scheme to be ran. Its all that GMs show right now.

Truth (most likely). Not truth. Truth.

Originally posted by RishikeshA:
Everything coincided with the team getting a Stadium and a Super Bowl. They brought in a real coach in Harbaugh and became one of the elite teams in the NFL. As soon as all the luxury boxes and season tickets were secured for the foreseeable future it was back to saving millions on a new coach and a bargain basement staff. You have to wonder, maybe this franchise does not care about winning. The money is secure and maybe that's the name of the game. It could be that Dr. York's Super Bowl is the bank statement at the end of each quarter.

So if the Yorks are cheap, explain why they chose to spend $8 mil per year on Torrey Smith? Harbaugh was only making $5 mil per year.

It had nothing to do with Harbaugh's salary. I don't think people understand his salary is PEANUTS compared to the bottom line.

No reason to overthink this. Harbaugh and management hated each other, for whatever reason, and parted ways. It's really that simple.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Well the GM picked the coaches and Im sure the GM wants this scheme to be ran. Its all that GMs show right now.

Truth (most likely). Not truth. Truth.

You don't think the gm asked them what scheme they would run before hiring ?


This could also be a planned tank job to secure a top tier qb in next years draft. I'm not sure but that could be possibility.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
So if the Yorks are cheap, explain why they chose to spend $8 mil per year on Torrey Smith? Harbaugh was only making $5 mil per year.

It had nothing to do with Harbaugh's salary. I don't think people understand his salary is PEANUTS compared to the bottom line.

No reason to overthink this. Harbaugh and management hated each other, for whatever reason, and parted ways. It's really that simple.

Yes and Tomsula turned down many coaching offers to coach the Niners. Torrey Smith came cheap, check out the numbers for other free agent receivers in last years' class. As far as management and Harbaugh hating each other, does that make winning secondary? How many winning coaches are there in the NFL, not many.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

So if the Yorks are cheap, explain why they chose to spend $8 mil per year on Torrey Smith? Harbaugh was only making $5 mil per year.

It had nothing to do with Harbaugh's salary. I don't think people understand his salary is PEANUTS compared to the bottom line.

No reason to overthink this. Harbaugh and management hated each other, for whatever reason, and parted ways. It's really that simple.

I'm not sure I'm totally on board with that line if thought. However, the team has a salary cap floor. York has no choice but to spend that money. They will save significant amounts of money this year. It wasn't just Harbaugh, we had the most expensive staff in the league. It's not that far out to think this could be financially motivated. Saving say $15-$20 m a year isn't peanuts anywhere, even in the nfl...

Originally posted by RishikeshA:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
So if the Yorks are cheap, explain why they chose to spend $8 mil per year on Torrey Smith? Harbaugh was only making $5 mil per year.

It had nothing to do with Harbaugh's salary. I don't think people understand his salary is PEANUTS compared to the bottom line.

No reason to overthink this. Harbaugh and management hated each other, for whatever reason, and parted ways. It's really that simple.

Yes and Tomsula turned down many coaching offers to coach the Niners. Torrey Smith came cheap, check out the numbers for other free agent receivers in last years' class. As far as management and Harbaugh hating each other, does that make winning secondary? How many winning coaches are there in the NFL, not many.

Erick Decker -- 5 year $36 mil, $15 guaranteed
Golden Tate -- 5 year $31 mil, $16 guaranteed
DeSean Jackson -- 4 year $24 mil, $16 guaranteed

Torrey Smith -- 5 year $40 mil, $22 guaranteed

Moneyball is our game, salary cap the driving force.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
I think you've grossly overestimated the talent. We're missing elite level talent at every level. Experience and quality are not synonymous.

Does cleaning house of an entire coaching staff that was historically successful and replacing them with a bunch of scrub position coaches ever work?

This is true. I think that maybe 7 of our 22 starters on offense or defense are above average NFL starters. (Staley, Boone, Hyde, Bowman, Brooks, Reid, Bethea) And a couple of those are debatable.

What?

Starters:
Colin Kaepernick - proven QB in the playoffs; inconsistent. 2 good games and then 1 horrendous game; poor when he presses. Jury still out.
Reggie Bush - proven IF ever healthy
Vernon Davis - see Reggie Bush
Bruce Miller - best FB in the game
Torrey Smith - heard this guy is pretty good
Anquan Boldin - him to, even at 40 years old
Joe Staley - rock
Alex Boone - inconsistent at best
Erik Pears - blows
Ian Williams - one of the best NT in the game
Glenn Dorsey - same concept as Williams but paving the way at 30 for AA at LDE
Ahmad Brooks - in Fangio's scheme, big game player; came in in great shape and now used as a CB
Michael Wilhoite - Mangini likes him over Tartt
Navarro Bowman - not 100% but he's already back to being a top ILB in the league again
Tramaine Brock - jury's out
Eric Reid - proven dynamic tandem with Bethea but appears to be a victim of scheme and indecision
Antoine Bethea - losing his speed but still ranked top 7 S right now
Kyle Nelson - very good
Phil Dawson - still very good
Jimmie Ward - solid slot CB
Carlos Hyde - excellent
Bruce Ellington - Glass Joe
Marcus Martin - sucking badly at 21
Jordan Devey - ouch
Quinton Dial - having a good year as a first time starter
Aaron Lynch - heard he is a good pass rusher; Mangini likes him better as a CB
Kenneth Acker - better grades than Peters (that's for you sus )
Jarryd Hayne - I guess we only like him for punts
Jaquiski Tartt - killing it in game 1. Barely used since
Bradley Pinion - having a good first year; no kick off returns for TD's (like the Superbowl)

Talent wise, there is no reason to be getting blown out like this IMHO. We do need to shore up that OL badly...get back to pass rushing and building talent there with Harold and next year in the draft and FA. Outside of that, not sure what rookies would come in and win spots over this current starting roster.

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
I'm not sure I'm totally on board with that line if thought. However, the team has a salary cap floor. York has no choice but to spend that money. They will save significant amounts of money this year. It wasn't just Harbaugh, we had the most expensive staff in the league. It's not that far out to think this could be financially motivated. Saving say $15-$20 m a year isn't peanuts anywhere, even in the nfl...

We would have maxed out the cap had certain players not surprisingly retired or got themselves kicked off the team.. AD, Willis, and Aldon were on the books for a lot of money. We expected to have these players and would have gladly paid them.

Our coaching payroll is less this year, but that's par for the course. Would everyone be happy had we payed Tomsula and staff millions more just to prove a point that they're not cheap?

It's a new staff. There's no Harbaugh or Fangio on this staff commanding top dollar, but there are many respected assistants on this staff. Sparano is the most over-qualified TE coach in the league. Foerster is one of the most repsected zone-blocking OL coaches in the league. We have 3 former defensive coordinators on the defensive staff. Tom Rathman is a quality coach. I don't have the salary numbers on this staff, but we did not go cheap here.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:
Well the GM picked the coaches and Im sure the GM wants this scheme to be ran. Its all that GMs show right now.

Truth (most likely). Not truth. Truth.

You don't think the gm asked them what scheme they would run before hiring ?


This could also be a planned tank job to secure a top tier qb in next years draft. I'm not sure but that could be possibility.

I'd hope he did! But after the hiring, it's on the coaches...for all we know, Mangini just gave an interview on how he'd keep everything the same (like we hoped) and just add a few retooling modifications (a few extra disguised blitzes and coverages, some personnel matchups better suited for our favor, etc.). Then he goes full 180 once he dusts off his playbook. Who knows.

Cute!

Originally posted by NCommand:
What?

Starters:
Colin Kaepernick - proven QB in the playoffs; inconsistent. 2 good games and then 1 horrendous game; poor when he presses. Jury still out.
Reggie Bush - proven IF ever healthy - SUCKS! Always hurt....
Vernon Davis - see Reggie Bush - SUCKS HORRIBLY!! Uncoordinated and has not been the same since he got blown up in Seattle...
Bruce Miller - best FB in the game - Top 3 FB's.. agree very good both blocking and catching the football
Torrey Smith - heard this guy is pretty good - Looks like if he doesnt catch a deep ball and gets hit over the middle he acts hurt and is done for the rest of the game.
Anquan Boldin - him to, even at 40 years old - THIS DUDE IS SOLID. One of my FAV 49ers.
Joe Staley - rock - Hmm.... wouldnt say rock..
Alex Boone - inconsistent at best - Misses Harbaugh
Erik Pears - blows - AGREED. THIS DUDE SUCKS
Ian Williams - one of the best NT in the game - Ehhh he does get DT'd quite a bit and stops the run nicely.
Glenn Dorsey - same concept as Williams but paving the way at 30 for AA at LDE - Agree.
Ahmad Brooks - in Fangio's scheme, big game player; came in in great shape and now used as a CB - 0 HEART
Michael Wilhoite - Mangini likes him over Tartt - NOT PWILLY
Navarro Bowman - not 100% but he's already back to being a top ILB in the league again - AWESOME but lost a step with the injury. Really looked a lil lost last week.
Tramaine Brock - jury's out - SUCKS
Eric Reid - proven dynamic tandem with Bethea but appears to be a victim of scheme and indecision - STOP PLAYING SCARED OR RETIRE.
Antoine Bethea - losing his speed but still ranked top 7 S right now - Really good, nice ballhawk skills and isnt afraid to pop someone.
Kyle Nelson - very good - K
Phil Dawson - still very good - hmmm, i'm scared everytime he kicks... He has not missed a big kick but i'd rather have Justin Tucker or that s**thead from Dallas d******d Bailey.
Jimmie Ward - solid slot CB - LOL.... THIS GUY SUCKS
Carlos Hyde - excellent - Doing well but needs to work on conditioning and getting the F down.. to many hits will have him outta here by age 27
Bruce Ellington - Glass Joe - Let the dude play
Marcus Martin - sucking badly at 21 - HE SUCKS ASS
Jordan Devey - ouch - SO DOES HE
Quinton Dial - having a good year as a first time starter - Needs to step up.
Aaron Lynch - heard he is a good pass rusher; Mangini likes him better as a CB - This dude is a beast... needs to get the QB quicker tho, take direct shots and not such looped approaches.
Kenneth Acker - better grades than Peters (that's for you sus ) - Like this kid
Jarryd Hayne - I guess we only like him for punts - SHOULD BE RETURNING f**kING KICKOFFS AS WELL
Jaquiski Tartt - killing it in game 1. Barely used since - Needs to be used. like this dude.
Bradley Pinion - having a good first year; no kick off returns for TD's (like the Superbowl) - not bad.

Talent wise, there is no reason to be getting blown out like this IMHO. We do need to shore up that OL badly...get back to pass rushing and building talent there with Harold and next year in the draft and FA. Outside of that, not sure what rookies would come in and win spots over this current starting roster.

this is a a bit optimistic... I fixed some of them for you.

Maybe so when you factor in coaching and division. Glad they got that win Monday night, another might not come until the 2nd half of the season (if at all).

They HAD to pick the coach who wouldn't attract any top quality assistants.