2012 vs. 2015 Rosters - Are we REALLY in much trouble at all personnel-wise?

Originally posted by Team49ers:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

We had a lot of things going against our OL last season. The only real question mark IMO is if Brandon Thomas can replace Iupati. Martin grew as the season went on and IMO it will be easier for him playing guard. Boone (hopefully) isn't holding out and should come into the season in shape. Kilgore will be ready to go.

It's not as bad as it seems.

Yeah, it's not even about replacing the player (Iupati, Davis) so much as it is, "Can these new starters fit very well into a zone blocking scheme and play with tempo and IQ?" better than Iupati and Davis when they actually were in the lineup in a power run scheme?

We have plenty of time to try different combinations and cross-train and get this down. The emphasis on IQ now, technique, diet, cardio, tempo, ZBS coupled with some power run designs, etc. actually has me really excited esp. when you consider the skill-players in this lineup ready to take advantage of a ZBS: CK himself, Hyde, Hunter, Bush, Davis, Millard, etc.

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

Im with you on that!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, it's not even about replacing the player (Iupati, Davis) so much as it is, "Can these new starters fit very well into a zone blocking scheme and play with tempo and IQ?" better than Iupati and Davis when they actually were in the lineup in a power run scheme?

We have plenty of time to try different combinations and cross-train and get this down. The emphasis on IQ now, technique, diet, cardio, tempo, ZBS coupled with some power run designs, etc. actually has me really excited esp. when you consider the skill-players in this lineup ready to take advantage of a ZBS: CK himself, Hyde, Hunter, Bush, Davis, Millard, etc.

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

Less than 52 sacks? Since our gameplans may, and I say MAY involve more than 3 yards and a cloud of dust, or pray someone other than Boldin can get open, I would think its safe to assume we should give up fewer. The whole concept of screens and swing passes should alleviate some of the pass rush, even with a younger line that hasnt played together, just hope Pears doesnt start.

i think we should dish out some cash for a pro bowl type corner.. everything else seems solid if not an upgrade.. but its too late in the game unless there is a training camp cut like flowers last season..

I agree. We need a pro bowl cb finally and a very good rt. besides that we are set. Next year we have 40 mil before extensions and brooks will lrobably be cut so that's another 7-8 mil that could be used for a great rt or cb. In the playoffs, our secondary has some bad plays so having a great cb will be key in winning another sb.

Originally posted by elguapo:
I agree. We need a pro bowl cb finally and a very good rt. besides that we are set. Next year we have 40 mil before extensions and brooks will lrobably be cut so that's another 7-8 mil that could be used for a great rt or cb. In the playoffs, our secondary has some bad plays so having a great cb will be key in winning another sb.

Pro bowl CB? Have we ever needed/had one of those? Rogers his first year? Can't remember...not really a "need" per se when your secondary helps a top 5 secondary and #1 in TO's, we've proven that team-defense is more important.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Pro bowl CB? Have we ever needed/had one of those? Rogers his first year? Can't remember...not really a "need" per se when your secondary helps a top 5 secondary and #1 in TO's, we've proven that team-defense is more important.

Our two starting corners from the top 5 secondary are gone and losing Justin Smith, Willis, and Borland will hurt the entire defense (less pressure on QB's, force us to commit more bodies to stop the run). Corner will be a more important position for us now that we don't have an elite front 7 that can force the ball out quickly. In hindsight, it probably would have made sense to bring back Cully with all the cap room we have now.

The biggest difference from 2012 is that our offensive line went from one of the best in the league to one of the worst. It was terrible last season and I don't know if it will get better after losing Iupati and Davis. There's no guarantee that all the current players will stay healthy this year either (if Staley gets hurt, we're screwed).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:
I agree. We need a pro bowl cb finally and a very good rt. besides that we are set. Next year we have 40 mil before extensions and brooks will lrobably be cut so that's another 7-8 mil that could be used for a great rt or cb. In the playoffs, our secondary has some bad plays so having a great cb will be key in winning another sb.

Pro bowl CB? Have we ever needed/had one of those? Rogers his first year? Can't remember...not really a "need" per se when your secondary helps a top 5 secondary and #1 in TO's, we've proven that team-defense is more important.

The last great one we had we won a Superbowl. ☺

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
It was terrible last season and I don't know if it will get better after losing Iupati and Davis.

True about Iuapti, but given that you're just comparing to last year they didn't really "lose" Davis off the line, as he only played 7 games last year and was clearly hurt/not into it/playing like crap in the games he did play.

The three questions are:

1) Will Kilgore/Martin be better than Martin was last year? (probably)

2) Will Thomas be able to match Iupati (somewhat likely as a pass blocker and incredibly unlikely as a run blocker)

3) Will the RT be better than the combined performance of Jonathan Martin and a woefully ineffective Davis? (sheesh, I hope so)

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
There's no guarantee that all the current players will stay healthy this year either (if Staley gets hurt, we're screwed).

Which is true every year. It has no bearing on comparing this year to last year, IMO.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
True about Iuapti, but given that you're just comparing to last year they didn't really "lose" Davis off the line, as he only played 7 games last year and was clearly hurt/not into it/playing like crap in the games he did play.

The three questions are:

1) Will Kilgore/Martin be better than Martin was last year? (probably)

2) Will Thomas be able to match Iupati (somewhat likely as a pass blocker and incredibly unlikely as a run blocker)

3) Will the RT be better than the combined performance of Jonathan Martin and a woefully ineffective Davis? (sheesh, I hope so)

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
There's no guarantee that all the current players will stay healthy this year either (if Staley gets hurt, we're screwed).

Which is true every year. It has no bearing on comparing this year to last year, IMO.

To be clear, I'm comparing the roster with 2012. The roster as a whole, but the offensive line in particular is clearly worse than it was in 2012. It will be interesting to see whether or not the offensive line improves from last year. Staley is a year older and we're replacing Iupati and Davis.

LT: Staley is a year older so I don't expect him to get better. He also will have to learn to play with a new LG now that Iupati is gone.
LG: Agree with what you said - Thomas may be able to match him as a pass blocker, but not as a run blocker right away.
C: Kilgore/Martin should be a little better than Martin was last year.
RG: Alex Boone should bounce back slightly
RT: I have very little confidence in Erik Pears or Trent Brown who are at the top of the depth chart right now. They are likely improvements over Martin, but a big dropoff from Davis even in an off-year for Davis.

RB: Gore was a phenomenal pass blocker over his career. He's not the player he used to be, but losing him certainly won't help in terms of pass protection. Bush may help as a safety valve.

Overall, I don't see the offensive line being significantly better than it was last year which was awful. This is assuming no injuries. Torrey Smith should help open up the offense a little bit, but I think we'll give up a lot of sacks again and have trouble establishing the run.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

I agree. We need a pro bowl cb finally and a very good rt. besides that we are set. Next year we have 40 mil before extensions and brooks will lrobably be cut so that's another 7-8 mil that could be used for a great rt or cb. In the playoffs, our secondary has some bad plays so having a great cb will be key in winning another sb.

Pro bowl CB? Have we ever needed/had one of those? Rogers his first year? Can't remember...not really a "need" per se when your secondary helps a top 5 secondary and #1 in TO's, we've proven that team-defense is more important.

Even if our secondary as a whole is good and gets turnovers, we always save our worst for the playoffs when a sb is on the line.
1) nfccg against the giants. Brock allows 3 and 17 td to manningham. That's was a huge reason why we lost

2) sb. Culliver and the rest of the secondary allowing flacco to go buck wild. Definitely the factor why we lost. 30+ points. Also the refs did a number on us.

3) nfccg Seattle. Even though Wilson as usual didn't do s**t passing against our CBS I seem to recall a td ON 4th down against Carlos Rogers. They took the lead and we could of kicked a fg instead of forcing it to Crabtree.

So even if we don't really need a great cb........we really do. Pass rush and scheme can only go so far whereas a player like Revis or Sherman vonte davis or PP even a lesser cb like talib or Hayden verner would all help the niners tremendously.

I'm in agreement with doing whatever can be done to get a better right tackle and/or cornerback.

As maybe a different slant on questions about personnel, I was looking at PFF's player grades for their Depth Chart feature. I noticed there are a lot of players that are "Not enough Info" or "Rookie":

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/04/2015-depth-charts-update-san-francisco-49ers/





Notice all the grey for "Not enough Info" and purple for "Rookie". There's a lot of promising names with those colors. I think watching those guys battle it out for roster spots in the pre-season is going to be really interesting. From a deep depth perspective, I think the 9ers a looking pretty darn good personnel wise. I bet by the end of the pre-season the team is going to shed a fair number of players that will go on to contribute well on other teams.

Originally posted by 49erphan:
I'm in agreement with doing whatever can be done to get a better right tackle and/or cornerback.

As maybe a different slant on questions about personnel, I was looking at PFF's player grades for their Depth Chart feature. I noticed there are a lot of players that are "Not enough Info" or "Rookie":

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/06/04/2015-depth-charts-update-san-francisco-49ers/





Notice all the grey for "Not enough Info" and purple for "Rookie". There's a lot of promising names with those colors. I think watching those guys battle it out for roster spots in the pre-season is going to be really interesting. From a deep depth perspective, I think the 9ers a looking pretty darn good personnel wise. I bet by the end of the pre-season the team is going to shed a fair number of players that will go on to contribute well on other teams.

This is fun but this is so far off I wouldn't even know where to begin. Some of those offensive players are actually defensive players and/or not even on the team anymore. LOL. I like the concept/idea for fun but...

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is fun but this is so far off I wouldn't even know where to begin. Some of those offensive players are actually defensive players and/or not even on the team anymore. LOL. I like the concept/idea for fun but...

All I meant to get at with the PFF images is that it is a visual way to quickly grasp how much competition there will be for many of the positions. I know that each of the competitions have been discussed in the forum many times but I liked the way these images encapsulate those competitions. As I was looking at all that grey and purple I began to get excited about the pre-season games because that will be where most of us will get a glimpse of how those competitions are going.

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is fun but this is so far off I wouldn't even know where to begin. Some of those offensive players are actually defensive players and/or not even on the team anymore. LOL. I like the concept/idea for fun but...

All I meant to get at with the PFF images is that it is a visual way to quickly grasp how much competition there will be for many of the positions. I know that each of the competitions have been discussed in the forum many times but I liked the way these images encapsulate those competitions. As I was looking at all that grey and purple I began to get excited about the pre-season games because that will be where most of us will get a glimpse of how those competitions are going.

Oh true. I didn't mean to discredit it...the idea was great (one of us Niner fans should do an objective one if possible). The visual layout is pretty cool.

We have talent but It'll prolly take us time to gel.

We have holes on the Oline and at WR as usual, CB and and MLB that need to be filled. Guys need to step up.

I just hope these coaches can put it together.