2012 vs. 2015 Rosters - Are we REALLY in much trouble at all personnel-wise? | Page 6

VANiner · 2015-06-14T16:20:43-07:00

A lot of media and general Webzone discussion has focused on the amount of turnover from our Superbowl squad from 2012 to the current roster. I have been defending the state of the team in the sense that Baalke had a plan in place and either sought timely replacements for players or already had the replacements waiting as depth on the squad. That said, I really hadn't looked at the starters from the 2012 roster position by position and compared them to our current projected starters. Here is a side by side comparison of the starters and a few noteworthy back-ups with some notes thrown in (Note: I bolded areas where I see us upgraded are having a new starter that is not a drop off from previous. I italicized positions where there is potential to have an upgrade, but time will tell: 2012 Offensive 2015 Projected QB - Kaepernick QB - Kaepernick (Note: No change here and very well might have made significant strides this offseason) RB1 - Gore RB1 - Hyde (Hyde was arguably the best RB in the draft last year and was specifically picked as Gore's replacement) RB2 - Hunter RB2 - Bush (Reggie was brought in to bring back the screen and short passing game, which has been missing) RB3 - James RB3 - Hunter (Our back-up from 2012 is now our number 3. Sounds good to me) FB - Miller FB - Miller (Might be pushed by Millard in TC, but still a solid FB) WR1 - Crabtree WR1 - Smith (Finally a deep threat as our primary / Crabtree never amounted to his potential with us) WR2 - Moss WR-2 Boldin (Could argue AB is our number one / Much stronger over middle and true leader of the team) TE - Davis TE - Davis (No change here, but hopefully Davis regains his 2012 form) LT - Staley LT - Staley (No change on most important position on the OL) RT - Davis RT - ?? (Only true hole that I see that needs to be determined in TC) LG - Iupati LG - Thomas (He was drafted last year as a red shirt because Baalke knew Iupati would not be back) RG - Boone RG - Boone (Could move out to tackle and make me feel better about the line as a whole) C - Goodwin C - Kilgore (He was the backup in 2012 and was waiting in the wings - Martin could also push for this spot in TC) 2012 Defense 2015 Projected RDE - Smith RDE - Dockett (Big loss with Justin, but Dockett is a seasoned vet and Smith was no longer in 2012 form) LDE - McDonald LDE - Carradine/Dial (RayMac simply had to go and there is really not much drop here in my opinion) NT - Sopagoa NT - Dorsey/Williams (Again, no drop off here. Really an upgrade) ILB - Willis ILB - Wilhoite (You can't replace HOF talent, but Wilhoite was on the PC in 2012 and was a waiting replacement) ILB - Bowman ILB - Bowman (All reports are that he is returning to form) OLB - Smith OLB - Smith (Faster, stronger and unstoppable according to him...could be in for a big year) OLB - Brooks OLB - Brooks/Lynch (Lynch might take this spot and make big strides this year) FS - Goldson FS - Reid (Reid is a better player and much less of a liability. Only worry is the concussion issue) SS - Whitner SS - Bethea (Pro Bowl year, better in coverage and less of a liability) CB - Rogers CB - Brock (Would you really say you would rather have Rogers than a healthy Brock?) CB - Brown CB - Wright/Johnson/Acker/Reaser (Excited to see who wins this battle. Again, is this a drop off? P - Lee P - Pinion (Hated to see Lee go, but I'm not getting too worried over the punter. Pinion might be a find) K - Akers K - Dawson (Dawson is better. Older and likely gone after this year, but still better) When I look at this position by position, I cannot see how there is SO much negativity about this roster. In 2012, we were considered one of the , if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Turn over happens. I like what I see. The biggest changes in my opinion are the coaching changes. This is the one thing I do not know about and we will have to wait until the results are shown on the field. I like what I am hearing so far, but time will tell. All in all, I feel pretty good with where this team is at roster-wise. Baalke did not miss a beat and has either sought worthy replacements or had the replacements waiting on the roster. That is a good GM if you ask me.

Jun 26, 2015 at 10:46 AM

#76

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's not so much about "opening things up", as it is more about calling plays that gets our players into a Rhythm, and attacks the other teams weakness.

Last year was hard to watch because you could see that the offense was out of sync.

out of sync is being way to kind and nice!

Jun 26, 2015 at 11:44 AM

#77

InsertNameHere1
Veteran
Posts: 2,556

Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's not so much about "opening things up", as it is more about calling plays that gets our players into a Rhythm, and attacks the other teams weakness.

Last year was hard to watch because you could see that the offense was out of sync.

out of sync is being way to kind and nice!

We could've really helped out the team if after Harbaugh left we promoted Roman to HC.

Jun 26, 2015 at 12:19 PM

#78

cciowa
Veteran
Posts: 60,541

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's not so much about "opening things up", as it is more about calling plays that gets our players into a Rhythm, and attacks the other teams weakness.

Last year was hard to watch because you could see that the offense was out of sync.

out of sync is being way to kind and nice!

We could've really helped out the team if after Harbaugh left we promoted Roman to HC.

true. we never got a chance to "explode" with the former head coaching holding back the former OC

Jun 26, 2015 at 12:29 PM

#79

WildBill
Veteran
Posts: 6,197

Comparing it to 2012 then perhaps-but the more proper comparison is 2014 to 2015-no. We are either on the same level or better, but they don't the game on paper or madden now do they.

Will geep be a Jimmy Raye (over his head) or a Bill Walsh (why was this guy given a chance only now-although Walsh had the resume before that a OC, but never given the chance until late in his life by E.D.)

Jun 26, 2015 at 2:00 PM

#80

flynhayn15
Veteran
Posts: 3,689

A good QB covers a multitude of roster holes. You have to look no further than IND. they were a perennial 12 win team. They lose manning and they are THE worst team in the NFL, they draft luck and have not missed the playoffs since. Also, see Green Bay and Pitsburgh. If you don't have a good QB, you need to have a flawless roster to win.

"If" Kap plays well we will be fine and have enough talent to knock on the door for a playoff spot. If not, we will probably be around 8-8 again. If he gets hurt early, we will probably have a top 5 pick.

Jun 27, 2015 at 9:24 AM

#81

KyleShanahan
Veteran
Posts: 3,779

We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

Jun 27, 2015 at 9:30 AM

#82

Homer
Veteran
Posts: 998

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

We had a lot of things going against our OL last season. The only real question mark IMO is if Brandon Thomas can replace Iupati. Martin grew as the season went on and IMO it will be easier for him playing guard. Boone (hopefully) isn't holding out and should come into the season in shape. Kilgore will be ready to go.

It's not as bad as it seems.

Jun 30, 2015 at 7:28 AM

#83

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

We had a lot of things going against our OL last season. The only real question mark IMO is if Brandon Thomas can replace Iupati. Martin grew as the season went on and IMO it will be easier for him playing guard. Boone (hopefully) isn't holding out and should come into the season in shape. Kilgore will be ready to go.

It's not as bad as it seems.

Yeah, it's not even about replacing the player (Iupati, Davis) so much as it is, "Can these new starters fit very well into a zone blocking scheme and play with tempo and IQ?" better than Iupati and Davis when they actually were in the lineup in a power run scheme?

We have plenty of time to try different combinations and cross-train and get this down. The emphasis on IQ now, technique, diet, cardio, tempo, ZBS coupled with some power run designs, etc. actually has me really excited esp. when you consider the skill-players in this lineup ready to take advantage of a ZBS: CK himself, Hyde, Hunter, Bush, Davis, Millard, etc.

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 30, 2015 at 7:29 AM ]

Jun 30, 2015 at 7:29 AM

#84

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

This is true!

Jul 1, 2015 at 10:42 AM

#85

crake49
Veteran
Posts: 13,201

Originally posted by NCommand:

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

Right here!

Jul 1, 2015 at 10:51 AM

#86

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

Right here!

Alright! We'll all be monitoring this one!

Jul 1, 2015 at 1:30 PM

#87

Shifty
Veteran
Posts: 23,429

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

The o-line depth scares me a little bit but I don't mind our starting o-line if we go with

Staley...Martin...Kilgore...Thomas...Boone

Pears and Brown back up OT and Looney and Farrell back up OG and C. I would like the line a lot more if Davis didn't retire but as it is I like the line still

Jul 1, 2015 at 8:49 PM

#88

teylo31
Veteran
Posts: 8,379

I am a fan of analogies and what i am going to say isnt an anology but hopefully my point comes across. Im in the boat that thinks we can be just fine this season but ill accept the fact that i may be wrong and we can be in deep. Who really knows. I do think that sometimes you just have to let guys play to see what they have.

Ill use the recent, although highly tainted in my mind, sb champs for my point.

Revis was a huge fish landed for ne this last season but i couldnt even tell you off the top of my head who made the game saving interception. Now i understand that is just a minute instance compared to a full season, pre season, training camp, otas and previous offseason that goes into a championship run but....

We were once considered one of the most talented, if not the most talented, teams only a couple years ago. I know some names, faces and staff that were part of that are gone but i just have to think that some of that mojo that created that are still around and has started to work again. Id like to think that we wont just fall flat on our faces like we did in 2000s.

In short i think this team is still very good and maybe the best thing they have going for them is youth

Jul 2, 2015 at 7:32 AM

#89

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by teylo31:
I am a fan of analogies and what i am going to say isnt an anology but hopefully my point comes across. Im in the boat that thinks we can be just fine this season but ill accept the fact that i may be wrong and we can be in deep. Who really knows. I do think that sometimes you just have to let guys play to see what they have.

Ill use the recent, although highly tainted in my mind, sb champs for my point.

Revis was a huge fish landed for ne this last season but i couldnt even tell you off the top of my head who made the game saving interception. Now i understand that is just a minute instance compared to a full season, pre season, training camp, otas and previous offseason that goes into a championship run but....

We were once considered one of the most talented, if not the most talented, teams only a couple years ago. I know some names, faces and staff that were part of that are gone but i just have to think that some of that mojo that created that are still around and has started to work again. Id like to think that we wont just fall flat on our faces like we did in 2000s.

In short i think this team is still very good and maybe the best thing they have going for them is youth

Agreed...it was neat to see yesterday, a poster who listed all the current players on the roster who have lots of playoff experience. Let's take a look.

QB: Colin Kaepernick; Blaine Gabbert (Blake Bell) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
RB1: Carlos Hyde; Mike Davis - No playoff experience here
RB2: Reggie Bush; Kendall Hunter - Tons of playoff experience here
H-Back: Trey Millard (Derek Carrier) - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald & Blake Bell - Tons of deep playoff experience here
FB: Bruce Miller; (Trey Millard) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
X WR: Torrey Smith; Jerome Simpson - Tons of deep playoff experience here
Y WR (SLOT): Bruce Ellington; DeAndrew White - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
Z WR: Anquan Boldin; Quinton Patton (DeAndre Smelter) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
LOT: Joe Staley; (Alex Boone) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
LG: Alex Boone; Brandon Thomas - Tons of deep playoff experience here
C: Daniel Kilgore; Joe Looney - No playoff experience here
RG: Marcus Martin (Joe Looney) - No playoff experience here
ROT: Erik Pears; Trenton Brown - No playoff experience here
RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead - Tons of deep playoff experience here
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial) - No playoff experience here
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett - Tons of deep playoff experience here
WILL: Aldon Smith; Corey Lemonier & Eli Harold - Tons of deep playoff experience here
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Philip Wheeler - No playoff experience here
MIKE: Navarro Bowman; Nick Bellore - Tons of deep playoff experience here
SAM: Ahmad Brooks; Aaron Lynch - Tons of deep playoff experience here
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Chris Cook & Kenneth Acker (NICKEL/DIME) - No playoff experience here
SLOT/NICKEL/DIME: Jimmie Ward; Keith Reaser (NICKEL/DIME) - No playoff experience here
LCB: Tramaine Brock; Shareece Wright (NICKEL/DIME) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
FS: Eric Reid; (Jimmie Ward) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
SS: Antoine Bethea; (Jaquiski Tartt) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
NICKEL/DIME (SS/ILB Robber): Jaquiski Tartt - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
LS: Kyle Nelson - Tons of deep playoff experience here
PK: Phil Dawson; (Bradley Pinion) - Tons of deep playoff experience here
P: Bradley Pinion - No playoff experience here

Summary:
While we average 25 years of age with 4 years experience in 2015, this is still a very experienced team when it comes to playing in big games and playoffs (deep runs) and I think that bodes very well for the 9ers this year; and let's also note that very few "rookies" will be leaned on in key roles. There seems to be this belief that since the older veterans have moved on, every position is now filled with a rookie. That just isn't true on any level; in fact, only Pinion would be a rookie starter.

Lacking Playoff Experience (on-the-field/not the bench):
RB1: Carlos Hyde; Mike Davis - No playoff experience here but Hyde's learned from the best in Gore and his best game was against Seattle (playoff-like atmosphere)
H-Back: Trey Millard (Derek Carrier) - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
Y WR (SLOT): Bruce Ellington; DeAndrew White - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
C: Daniel Kilgore; Joe Looney - No playoff experience here but Kilgore has trained for years for this role
RG: Marcus Martin (Joe Looney) - Could be a concern
ROT: Erik Pears; Trenton Brown - Could be a concern
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial) - No playoff experience here but Williams has played in a ton of big games for us and been with us for years now
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Philip Wheeler - No playoff experience here
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Chris Cook & Kenneth Acker (NICKEL/DIME) - No playoff experience here
SLOT/NICKEL/DIME: Jimmie Ward; Keith Reaser (NICKEL/DIME) - No playoff experience here
NICKEL/DIME (SS/ILB Robber): Jaquiski Tartt - No playoff experience here but this is a role-player position
P: Bradley Pinion - No playoff experience here (only rookie starter)

Jul 2, 2015 at 7:38 AM

#90

Team49ers
Veteran
Posts: 4,605

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Homer:

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
We have a very good roster. Our O-Line is what scares me.. and it just so happens to be the most important part of an offense.

We had a lot of things going against our OL last season. The only real question mark IMO is if Brandon Thomas can replace Iupati. Martin grew as the season went on and IMO it will be easier for him playing guard. Boone (hopefully) isn't holding out and should come into the season in shape. Kilgore will be ready to go.

It's not as bad as it seems.

Yeah, it's not even about replacing the player (Iupati, Davis) so much as it is, "Can these new starters fit very well into a zone blocking scheme and play with tempo and IQ?" better than Iupati and Davis when they actually were in the lineup in a power run scheme?

We have plenty of time to try different combinations and cross-train and get this down. The emphasis on IQ now, technique, diet, cardio, tempo, ZBS coupled with some power run designs, etc. actually has me really excited esp. when you consider the skill-players in this lineup ready to take advantage of a ZBS: CK himself, Hyde, Hunter, Bush, Davis, Millard, etc.

Can this OL give up less than 52 sacks (7 on CK himself) and per PFF, pressure on 34.7% of his drop backs? I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess we'll do better this year. Who's with me?!

Im with you on that!