2012 vs. 2015 Rosters - Are we REALLY in much trouble at all personnel-wise?

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by verb1der:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
The answer is your question is: Most likely we are in trouble personnel-wise. Three years ago, we had numerous guys who were Pro-Bowlers. Outside of Bowman, and maybe Stanley, I don't see a lot of guys.

Can some of the young guys play at a high level, and fill-in the gaps on where we lost valuable talent. Sure. Is it likely that a large cluster will? Call me a skeptic. We just haven't seen it yet.

Lot of holes that will need to be filled over the next few years. I see this team right now as a 6-10 team at best.

So this.

thats coming from one of the best talent evaluators on this site.

well we had a plethora of pro bowlers on the team last season and we only went 8-8. with jim harbaugh, the greatest coach to ever grace this earth.

meanwhile in dallas, they were supposed to be a historically bad team, but somehow they made it to the divisional round of the playoffs.

we aren't gonna know how this new group of 49ers fare until the season starts.

Thank you captain obvious.

We may have had a plethora of pro bowl pinatas last year and finished 8-8 but let me tell you how much better the team would of been with all pro aldon smith, all pro bowman, all pro Willis, Dorsey and Williams, Brock, Kilgore and Anthony Davis, VD healthy, and so on. Easily wins against CHI ARIZ STL SD that's 12-4 and the bye week and the division.

So again, injuries was the reason as well as horrible OC and 2nd half adjustments. However if healthy, we would of probably been the top seed Despite the horrendous OC, clock management and 2nd half lack of adjustments.

Originally posted by elguapo:
We may have had a plethora of pro bowl pinatas last year and finished 8-8 but let me tell you how much better the team would of been with all pro aldon smith, all pro bowman, all pro Willis, Dorsey and Williams, Brock, Kilgore and Anthony Davis, VD healthy, and so on. Easily wins against CHI ARIZ STL SD that's 12-4 and the bye week and the division.

So again, injuries was the reason as well as horrible OC and 2nd half adjustments. However if healthy, we would of probably been the top seed Despite the horrendous OC, clock management and 2nd half lack of adjustments.

Hard to argue that!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:
We may have had a plethora of pro bowl pinatas last year and finished 8-8 but let me tell you how much better the team would of been with all pro aldon smith, all pro bowman, all pro Willis, Dorsey and Williams, Brock, Kilgore and Anthony Davis, VD healthy, and so on. Easily wins against CHI ARIZ STL SD that's 12-4 and the bye week and the division.

So again, injuries was the reason as well as horrible OC and 2nd half adjustments. However if healthy, we would of probably been the top seed Despite the horrendous OC, clock management and 2nd half lack of adjustments.

Hard to argue that!

having to win games in spite of the coaches. sounds a bit odd

Yet CC, as we well know, that is exactly what happened to the 9ers last yr....and that was a fricking tragedy. In retrospect, i was ready to schidt can harbaw midway thru 2014 season, when i think he lost his team. I know he certainly lost this fan. So now we have that behind us and it can only portend for good things to come. Having your HC AND OC as a boat anchor around the team's necks does not a good team make... And that is why i am so stoked about this yr. Somewhat similar talent, at least half unknown due to sitting the pine or rehab, yet with a new coach that COULDN'T be as bad as the one we fired...unhhh, mutually let go. That is cause for great joy to me....just not having a boat anchor out there as HC /OC. Those jokers are gone. I just see blue sky ahead.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
We're not as good as our 2012/13 team that went to the SB, some players have regressed, namely Staley, Vernon. Plus I have zero faith in our pass defense, I see nothing in Brock, he hasn't earned the #1 CB spot in my eyes. DJ, and the young guys are unknowns. Cook and Wright have been horrible in their previous teams, so I'm not expecting greatness from either.

Depth wise, I think we have good depth, but a lot of young guys who haven't proven anything, like Tank Carradine, he needs to step up, if he isn't starting at DE this year, or rotating, then that 2nd rd pick was a waste of a pick by Baalke. I swear if TJE is starting that shows right there that Carradine can't even beat an UDFA out. And if he isn't active that tells me Baalke needs to readjust his thinking of when it comes to drafting tweeners, and these damn All ACL team players, sick of it.

I think we have the potential to be a playoff team, but the players need to buy into Tomsula, and his staff, which is a downgrade IMO from Harbaugh and his staff.

This is a make or break year for several guys, Tank being one of them, and yes Kap needs to improve, or he could be let go next offseason, without a big dead money hit.

Very good 2013 season and won the #1CB competition last year against Cox and Culliver? Yep, he's a nothing player.

I like he lost but a 2012 Smith Vs a 2015 ACL repaired Dockett will be a big drop off. Losing Willis will be a big drop off. I think those two alone will put a big learning curve on our defense. But we have leaders, Bethea, bowman, reid. I think they'll get better as we go.

i think this offense can be better if Davis regains form but that's a lot to ask. Dude is gone be 31 I think. Big difference between 28 prime and 31 coming off a bad year. But Gates still manages to produce so who knows.

Originally posted by Youngone:
I like he lost but a 2012 Smith Vs a 2015 ACL repaired Dockett will be a big drop off. Losing Willis will be a big drop off. I think those two alone will put a big learning curve on our defense. But we have leaders, Bethea, bowman, reid. I think they'll get better as we go.

i think this offense can be better if Davis regains form but that's a lot to ask. Dude is gone be 31 I think. Big difference between 28 prime and 31 coming off a bad year. But Gates still manages to produce so who knows.

Not sure what you're trying to say with the first line about "like he lost" but why are you comparing 2012 Justin to today's Dockett? The real comparison is how much of a drop off it will be from 2014 Justin to ACL repaired Dockett.

Willis is most definitely a loss. Bowman and Willis side by side for years could have been a historically great tandem. But as long as Bowman comes back even 90%, he and Wilhoite together are good enough to win with. You don't absolutely need 2 all pro ILBs to win. We were just spoiled.

Originally posted by VANiner:
A lot of media and general Webzone discussion has focused on the amount of turnover from our Superbowl squad from 2012 to the current roster. I have been defending the state of the team in the sense that Baalke had a plan in place and either sought timely replacements for players or already had the replacements waiting as depth on the squad. That said, I really hadn't looked at the starters from the 2012 roster position by position and compared them to our current projected starters. Here is a side by side comparison of the starters and a few noteworthy back-ups with some notes thrown in (Note: I bolded areas where I see us upgraded are having a new starter that is not a drop off from previous. I italicized positions where there is potential to have an upgrade, but time will tell:

2012 Offensive 2015 Projected
QB - Kaepernick QB - Kaepernick (Note: No change here and very well might have made significant strides this offseason)
RB1 - Gore RB1 - Hyde (Hyde was arguably the best RB in the draft last year and was specifically picked as Gore's replacement)
RB2 - Hunter RB2 - Bush (Reggie was brought in to bring back the screen and short passing game, which has been missing)
RB3 - James RB3 - Hunter (Our back-up from 2012 is now our number 3. Sounds good to me)
FB - Miller FB - Miller (Might be pushed by Millard in TC, but still a solid FB)
WR1 - Crabtree WR1 - Smith (Finally a deep threat as our primary / Crabtree never amounted to his potential with us)
WR2 - Moss WR-2 Boldin (Could argue AB is our number one / Much stronger over middle and true leader of the team)
TE - Davis TE - Davis (No change here, but hopefully Davis regains his 2012 form)
LT - Staley LT - Staley (No change on most important position on the OL)
RT - Davis RT - ?? (Only true hole that I see that needs to be determined in TC)
LG - Iupati LG - Thomas (He was drafted last year as a red shirt because Baalke knew Iupati would not be back)
RG - Boone RG - Boone (Could move out to tackle and make me feel better about the line as a whole)
C - Goodwin C - Kilgore (He was the backup in 2012 and was waiting in the wings - Martin could also push for this spot in TC)

2012 Defense 2015 Projected
RDE - Smith RDE - Dockett (Big loss with Justin, but Dockett is a seasoned vet and Smith was no longer in 2012 form)
LDE - McDonald LDE - Carradine/Dial (RayMac simply had to go and there is really not much drop here in my opinion)
NT - Sopagoa NT - Dorsey/Williams (Again, no drop off here. Really an upgrade)
ILB - Willis ILB - Wilhoite (You can't replace HOF talent, but Wilhoite was on the PC in 2012 and was a waiting replacement)
ILB - Bowman ILB - Bowman (All reports are that he is returning to form)
OLB - Smith OLB - Smith (Faster, stronger and unstoppable according to him...could be in for a big year)
OLB - Brooks OLB - Brooks/Lynch (Lynch might take this spot and make big strides this year)
FS - Goldson FS - Reid (Reid is a better player and much less of a liability. Only worry is the concussion issue)
SS - Whitner SS - Bethea (Pro Bowl year, better in coverage and less of a liability)
CB - Rogers CB - Brock (Would you really say you would rather have Rogers than a healthy Brock?)
CB - Brown CB - Wright/Johnson/Acker/Reaser (Excited to see who wins this battle. Again, is this a drop off?

P - Lee P - Pinion (Hated to see Lee go, but I'm not getting too worried over the punter. Pinion might be a find)
K - Akers K - Dawson (Dawson is better. Older and likely gone after this year, but still better)

When I look at this position by position, I cannot see how there is SO much negativity about this roster. In 2012, we were considered one of the , if not the most, talented rosters in the league. Turn over happens. I like what I see.

The biggest changes in my opinion are the coaching changes. This is the one thing I do not know about and we will have to wait until the results are shown on the field. I like what I am hearing so far, but time will tell. All in all, I feel pretty good with where this team is at roster-wise. Baalke did not miss a beat and has either sought worthy replacements or had the replacements waiting on the roster. That is a good GM if you ask me.

Because all the non 9er fans say the team is all Jim Harbaugh, but yet when he left Stanford, the team went to 1st place the next 3 years without him

Two factors if met with this current roster will place this team in the playoffs.

Good Health

Pass blocking improvement (significant!)

And this goes for almost every other team in the NFL

Originally posted by MikeD:

Because all the non 9er fans say the team is all Jim Harbaugh, but yet when he left Stanford, the team went to 1st place the next 3 years without him

This!

Poor UM fans don't realize that if he doesn't find another Shaw, they're in for a long, painful season. But that's nothing new for them.

Not in trouble at all. Lost some good pieces but Baalke has been able to reload this roster year after year despite fans b@tching and moaning. Hell it wasn't too long ago allot of these naysayers were b@tchin about Rogers and Brown as our DBs, losing Heitman would cripple the line, rinse and repeat with Baas. Omg we lost DG and Whit... but actually got better. Long story short, all these opinions are pure hyperbole at this point. There are plenty of reasons to be optimistic just like there are also reasons to be pessimistic.

I don't see the reason to compare the defensive side of the ball with 2012. We were a top 5 defense last year with a depleted roster. The way I see it we are starting the season with a more talented defense (considering everyone is healthy) than what we played with last year (or at least a similar amount of talent).

Offensively, its tough to say because we have never been great, so comparing talent from previous years doesn't tell us much.

I think it really comes down to coaching and scheme. Is Mangini a big drop off from Fangio? Is Chryst any better than Roman?

Originally posted by Born9erFan:

I don't see the reason to compare the defensive side of the ball with 2012. We were a top 5 defense last year with a depleted roster. The way I see it we are starting the season with a more talented defense (considering everyone is healthy) than what we played with last year (or at least a similar amount of talent).

Offensively, its tough to say because we have never been great, so comparing talent from previous years doesn't tell us much.

I think it really comes down to coaching and scheme. Is Mangini a big drop off from Fangio? Is Chryst any better than Roman?

In bold! You believe it's possible to be worse than HaRoman without being intentional? Seriously?

More importantly. Do you think Tomsula and Baalke will backstop a meathead that can't get their S straight until 20 seconds tick off the playclock?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by elguapo:

We may have had a plethora of pro bowl pinatas last year and finished 8-8 but let me tell you how much better the team would of been with all pro aldon smith, all pro bowman, all pro Willis, Dorsey and Williams, Brock, Kilgore and Anthony Davis, VD healthy, and so on. Easily wins against CHI ARIZ STL SD that's 12-4 and the bye week and the division.

So again, injuries was the reason as well as horrible OC and 2nd half adjustments. However if healthy, we would of probably been the top seed Despite the horrendous OC, clock management and 2nd half lack of adjustments.

Hard to argue that!

My thought is that if Bruce Arians can manage a winning season with backup QBs playing the majority of it, Tomsula can win with the roster we have.