Where do you expect our defense to be Ranked this season?

Without Fangio and Co. and under Mangina's control, i say middle of the road.

Originally posted by thl408:
Biggest questions for me is whether Dial and Tank are ready to assume larger roles, especially Dial. I don't see Dockett as a three down lineman and someone has to be stout against the run on 1st/2nd downs at LDE. Hope to have Dorsey and IWilliams healthy for a full season. That has never happened. I'm assuming Justin is back. Bow and Wilhoite will be a solid tandem at ILB. Love the OLB depth with a full season of Aldon, Lynch on the uptick, and Brooks pushing for playing time. The safeties are the strength of the secondary. Brock needs to return to 2013 Brock. Biggest defensive camp competition could be at RCB. Shouldn't be a large change in scheme with Mangini. Top 10.

Yup. And you heard it here first...second...and third. Dial is going to kill it at LDE thanks to learning "leverage" at NT last year and Tank was already on the up ending the year. I can't wait!

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
Biggest questions for me is whether Dial and Tank are ready to assume larger roles, especially Dial. I don't see Dockett as a three down lineman and someone has to be stout against the run on 1st/2nd downs at LDE. Hope to have Dorsey and IWilliams healthy for a full season. That has never happened. I'm assuming Justin is back. Bow and Wilhoite will be a solid tandem at ILB. Love the OLB depth with a full season of Aldon, Lynch on the uptick, and Brooks pushing for playing time. The safeties are the strength of the secondary. Brock needs to return to 2013 Brock. Biggest defensive camp competition could be at RCB. Shouldn't be a large change in scheme with Mangini. Top 10.

I agree on Dial. I think he has the ability to be an ideal 3-4 DE from what i have seen. He is good against the run, seems to command double teams, but what has impressed me the most in his limited time is his ability to get into the backfield and on a few occassions last year he broke into the backfield, sniffed out the screen pass and immediately went into the flat to cover the screen.

Smart man right here!

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I going to take a wild guess and say that the 49ers will be a top ten defense.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

Mangini's defense in NE lost Ty Law in the offseason, then started 10 different DBs (might have been 10 CBs, I don't remember). IIRC, they had even more season-ending injuries than our D, with most of them in the defensive backfield. That's gonna mess up your stats.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:
I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

Mangini's defense in NE lost Ty Law in the offseason, then started 10 different DBs (might have been 10 CBs, I don't remember). IIRC, they had even more season-ending injuries than our D, with most of them in the defensive backfield. That's gonna mess up your stats.

He also has a not so great track record as HC. One 10-6 season and playoffs and a 33-47 record and similar personal issues that people didn't like about Harbaugh (micro-manager etc..)

And he didn't do well developing TEs here either.

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

We didn't always have Aldon on the field and Watt is the best 3-4 DE. Also, Bowman was on the bench before Fangio arrived. Fangio also coached the dome patrol in NO, which was one of the best LB core in NFL history. I doubt it is merely a coincidence that he coached two of the finest linebackers squads and had little to do with their success.

Also, Fangio was DC on the expansion Panthers and they were a really good defense for a few years. They had some good linebackers there as well. Expansion teams don't have much talent but he made it work just like with the plethora of injuries we had last year.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I belive Stanford also had a great Defense.

Sure, he had some not so great seasons but he's also has had success coaching. Mangini on the other hand, has alienated himself from teams with his behavior and lack of success. Probably explains why he, a defensive guy, ended up coaching TEs here. I don't know what else to judge him on besides his failure as a HC, DC and TE coach, all excuses aside.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

We didn't always have Aldon on the field and Watt is the best 3-4 DE. Also, Bowman was on the bench before Fangio arrived. Fangio also coached the dome patrol in NO, which was one of the best LB core in NFL history. I doubt it is merely a coincidence that he coached two of the finest linebackers squads and had little to do with their success.

Also, Fangio was DC on the expansion Panthers and they were a really good defense for a few years. They had some good linebackers there as well. Expansion teams don't have much talent but he made it work just like with the plethora of injuries we had last year.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I belive Stanford also had a great Defense.

Sure, he had some not so great seasons but he's also has had success coaching. Mangini on the other hand, has alienated himself from teams with his behavior and lack of success. Probably explains why he, a defensive guy, ended up coaching TEs here. I don't know what else to judge him on besides his failure as a HC, DC and TE coach, all excuses aside.

He was a very good DBs coach, and even the players who hated him in NY and CLE said he knows more about football than anyone. Yeah, his mind games were immature, ineffective, and fooloish. That said, I don't think any of that crap will be allowed to fly in JT's big family love fest.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

We didn't always have Aldon on the field and Watt is the best 3-4 DE. Also, Bowman was on the bench before Fangio arrived. Fangio also coached the dome patrol in NO, which was one of the best LB core in NFL history. I doubt it is merely a coincidence that he coached two of the finest linebackers squads and had little to do with their success.

Also, Fangio was DC on the expansion Panthers and they were a really good defense for a few years. They had some good linebackers there as well. Expansion teams don't have much talent but he made it work just like with the plethora of injuries we had last year.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I belive Stanford also had a great Defense.

Sure, he had some not so great seasons but he's also has had success coaching. Mangini on the other hand, has alienated himself from teams with his behavior and lack of success. Probably explains why he, a defensive guy, ended up coaching TEs here. I don't know what else to judge him on besides his failure as a HC, DC and TE coach, all excuses aside.

He was a very good DBs coach, and even the players who hated him in NY and CLE said he knows more about football than anyone. Yeah, his mind games were immature, ineffective, and fooloish. That said, I don't think any of that crap will be allowed to fly in JT's big family love fest.

His football knowledge is unquestioned. But that's not the same as good coaching. However, he could have changed his ways. That is for sure. Sometimes coaches need time to grow, learn and adapt. He's had plenty of time to do so. We shall see.

I'm surprised he didn't get a DB coach gig somewhere. I think he may have rattled too many cages during spygate.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

We didn't always have Aldon on the field and Watt is the best 3-4 DE. Also, Bowman was on the bench before Fangio arrived. Fangio also coached the dome patrol in NO, which was one of the best LB core in NFL history. I doubt it is merely a coincidence that he coached two of the finest linebackers squads and had little to do with their success.

Also, Fangio was DC on the expansion Panthers and they were a really good defense for a few years. They had some good linebackers there as well. Expansion teams don't have much talent but he made it work just like with the plethora of injuries we had last year.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I belive Stanford also had a great Defense.

Sure, he had some not so great seasons but he's also has had success coaching. Mangini on the other hand, has alienated himself from teams with his behavior and lack of success. Probably explains why he, a defensive guy, ended up coaching TEs here. I don't know what else to judge him on besides his failure as a HC, DC and TE coach, all excuses aside.

Sometimes coaches luck out and end up with great players(phil jackson with Kobe and Jordan). The "dome patrol" and our LBs were more about their talent level than his coaching. In 2010 we had the 13th ranked defense.

J.Smith was the best 3-4 DE from 2010-2012.

Fangio was an average coach with exceptional talent, plus we were a running team that normally won the time of possession. We'll see how Chicago looks this year.

We can still be Top 5, confident we'll at least be Top 10. Still a lot of talent on D.

I'm nervous about the d-line. Cowboy and RayMac were so good and consistent. They anchored the line. One is gone, and the other could retire. Also not sure if Mangini wants a more traditional mammoth 3-4 NT, or if Dorsey/Williams can fit the bill. Regardless, I want us to prioritize the d-line on draft day.

Even with Willis and Borland retiring, I still like the LBs. It's a testament to how well we've drafted here. Draft one more ILB and we're good. Maybe another OLB with Aldon and Brooks in the last year of their deals.

Secondary is interesting, because every year we're worried about the corners, and every year Baalke finds 2 guys who start and perform well. Not sure if we can still count on that with a new D-coordinator in place who has his own philosophies, but I trust Baalke to give the coaches enough talent at corner to get the job done. Brock, Wright, Ward, Johnson, and Cook might already be enough to get the job done. Reid and Bethea are a very good safety tandem.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:

It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

I agree with this. I don't know why anyone has faith in Mangini?

I guess you could have said the same about fangio
Looking at his stats, but if we would have had a lower ranked defense it wouldn't have surprised me.

Why does anyone think Mangini is this great d-cord. I've seen all the stats and the ages of the pats d as everyone has pointed out.
I have zero faith in the clown.

I was never a Fangio fan. He had the two best ILB, the best pass rushing OLB(Aldon), the best 3-4 DE(Smith) and probowl talent at every other position, for the most part. We could've had any DC from 2011-2013 and had a top 5 defense.

We really have no idea what Mangini can bring to the table. Will he blitz more than Fangio, I hope. Will he have our CBs playing 10yrds back on 3rd and short situations like Fangio, I hope not.

It is a tad unnerving that I never heard his name associated with any teams, for a DC position, since his last stint as coach. Why is it.....?

We didn't always have Aldon on the field and Watt is the best 3-4 DE. Also, Bowman was on the bench before Fangio arrived. Fangio also coached the dome patrol in NO, which was one of the best LB core in NFL history. I doubt it is merely a coincidence that he coached two of the finest linebackers squads and had little to do with their success.

Also, Fangio was DC on the expansion Panthers and they were a really good defense for a few years. They had some good linebackers there as well. Expansion teams don't have much talent but he made it work just like with the plethora of injuries we had last year.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I belive Stanford also had a great Defense.

Sure, he had some not so great seasons but he's also has had success coaching. Mangini on the other hand, has alienated himself from teams with his behavior and lack of success. Probably explains why he, a defensive guy, ended up coaching TEs here. I don't know what else to judge him on besides his failure as a HC, DC and TE coach, all excuses aside.

Sometimes coaches luck out and end up with great players(phil jackson with Kobe and Jordan). The "dome patrol" and our LBs were more about their talent level than his coaching. In 2010 we had the 13th ranked defense.

J.Smith was the best 3-4 DE from 2010-2012.

Fangio was an average coach with exceptional talent, plus we were a running team that normally won the time of possession. We'll see how Chicago looks this year.

Lakers with kobe and shaq didn't get over the hump until jackson arrived. Same with MJ and the bulls.

Its Hard to say Fangio just keeps getting that lucky with talent without giving him any credit for coaching up great players.

What about the success with the panthers when they were an expansion team? Lack of talent didn't stop him there.

And stanford? Any comment on those two stints?

Good discussion fellas. Donatell, Leavitt, Tomsula and Fangio were 4 of the best. Just look at how much Goldson, Whitner, Culliver, Cox, McDonald, Brown, Rogers, etc. got paid on the open market. And how have they done since they've left?

Fangio deserves credit for growing and developing AND sustaining that success for 4 years. If not we would have been a .500 team every year at best no doubt.

That said, we can't ignore the talent either. Last year was a great example of a GM and a defensive staff finding and getting the most out of players.

We can only hope that Mangini has grown as well as the rest of the position coaches and that they grow as a unit like the previous regime!