Where do you expect our defense to be Ranked this season?

Went top 10. But could see it also in the early teens. Tomsula is a great defensive coach and was the one giving the players the adjustments on the sidelines, if mangini starts to get away from what works he has the knowledge and experience to reign him in.

If bowman comes back at 85% or more of his previous self we got a good chance. Wilhoite is good enough to fill in the void and I'm excited to see what our youngsters on the line and secondary can do.

Top 30

- Willis
- Borland
- Culliver
- Cox
- Raymac

+ Bowman
+ Dorsey
+ Dockett
+ I. Williams
+ Ward
+ Aldon
+ Young talent getting more playing time

Bowman and Wilhoite filled in exceptionally well when Willis went down. In fact I think Bowman had one of his best games next to Wilhoite (against the rams). Williams and Dorsey are good enough to pick up the slack against the run though it probably will suffer a little considering Dockett, Tank, or Dial are no where near as solid in run D as Raymac was.

I'm really not worried about the corner situation. Yes there will probably be a few big plays given up here and there but our pass rush should be better and in turn make it a bit easier on our young corners.

I strongly feel top 10 is where it will be. Even with all the injuries we were still top 5 last year. It's not like Fangio had some magical scheme that could plug and play anyone and still be a great D. Some of that came down to talent and a lot of it was rookie talent (most notably the cb positions).

Hard to say with the switch in scheme and questions in the secondary.

I would still think we're top 10 given the talent we still have. If Aldon and Lynch bring their pass rush A game it will really help out the secondary and I think our guys can play the run well enough so we're not getting gashed there.

Top 5. I predict we nail the draft with some defensive studs, Bowman comes back better than ever, Cowboy returns, and Mangini finally lives up to his Man genius nickname. Being very optimistic here, why not.

I'm predicting top 10. I think this personnel has the ability to be top 5 and it's possible because there really aren't any offensive powerhouses in this division.

I don't think we will have a top 5 defense 5 years in
a row but we shouldn't drop that far. I'm predicting anywhere between number 8th and number 12th overall.

to me, our front 7 needs to have an exceptional year if our defense is going to be a quality unit, the return of Brock, Bowman, Williams and Dorsey will be a huge lift if they can come back and contribute and stay healthy, I'm hoping Mangini can find ways to make the defense work by finding ways to include both Brooks and Lynch at OLB, because having Aldon back for opening day is huge ...HUGE

I'm liking our CB situation, Wright, Brock, Johnson and Cook are a serviceable unit of CB's, plus we will be adding depth through the draft, and don't sleep on Reaser , he is a physically gifted CB, having him back healthy will go a long way in improving the secondary depth.

we should be set at safety , hopefully Ward and any draft picks can solidify the back up safety positions , but if the season were to start today, we would go into the season in a lot better shape than most clubs on the defensive side of the ball

How do you define the rankings? Yards, points, run defense, pass defense, etc.?

It starts with looking at the personnel and depth:
RDE: Tank Carradine; Kaleb Ramsey & Lawrence Okoye
LDE: Quinton Dial/Darnell Dockett; Tony Jerrod-Eddie
NT: Glenn Dorsey/Ian Williams; Mike Purcell & Garrison Smith
WILL: Aldon Smith; Corey Lemonier
SAM: Ahmad Brooks/Aaron Lynch
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Desmond Bishop & Shayne Skov
MIKE: Navarro Bowman; Nick Moody & Nick Bellore
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Shareece Wright & Leon McFadden
LCB: Tramaine Brock; Chris Cook & Marcus Cromartie
SLOT/NICKLE: Jimmie Ward; Kenneth Acker & Keith Reaser
FS: Eric Reid; L.J. McCray
SS: Antoine Bethea; Craig Dahl

Last year we were pretty much top 5 in pass defense, overall and #1 in TO's. I think we were around 10th in run defense with Dial playing NT for the first time ever. We had guys like Johnson (outside and in the slot), McFadden and even Cromartie starting in the secondary by the end of the year. Justin was injured as was, Willis, Bowman, Borland, Brock, Cook, Ward, Dorsey and Williams, etc. We ended the year with something like 21 players on I.R. and most were on defense yet, we STILL finished top 5 and #1 in TO's. That is just remarkable. Period.

This year we are going to have all the aforementioned players back and 100% healthy: Justin (?), Dorsey, Williams, Brock, Ward, Cook, Bowman, etc. and guys like Wilhoite, Johnson, Ward, Dial, Tank, etc. got some serious snaps and experience last year and will now be moving to their natural positions (i.e. Dial to LDE) and competing for starting bids.

Without even adding one single player (just I.R. players returning), the talent alone is top 3 in the NFL IMHO. If we add a couple pieces such as Eddie Goldman/Carl Davis to NT (2-gappers), DE like (Arik Armstead), a dynamic ILB (Stephone Anthony) and/or perhaps, a top tier CB (Trae Waynes) to compete, this defense could easily be #1 in the NFL when it's all said and done with proper scheme/timing by Mangini. The depth is insane here compared to the rest of the NFL and don't underestimate the starters as a "unit."

I have a feeling Dial and Tank are going to go OFF playing their natural positions, playing significant snaps and in making the jump in their "leap year." Pay close attention to Ward as well now that he may be 100% healthy for the first time ever. There is going to be a monster competition at CB between Johnson, Acker, Reaser, Wright, McFadden, Cook, etc. with Brock even feeling the heat now.

Mangini has a number of tools he can use. Playing against Seattle and Graham, he can move Johnson inside to the slot to cover him and still stay "big press" on the outside with a CB like Cook or others. Let's watch Ramsey and Okoye closely this year as well. Dockett is going to add a big time attitude to this front 7 and add a pass rush inside on passing downs next to Tank and Aldon and Lynch/Brooks. 2 healthy NT's for the first time ever? Nice!

I don't see a single position a rookie could come in and earn a starting spot THIS year save for possibly, NT, CB, DE and ILB. And they'd face some steep competition if they did win a starting bid...just adding more and more to our depth.

Mangini is scheduled to be more aggressive and creative in blitz schemes esp. compared to Fangio (least in the NFL). In addition, he comes from a similar school of off coverage as Fangio (i.e. building off Fangio's success here the past 4 years) and will be adding the "best" of the other three schemes in consultation with our current position (former HC/DC) coaches who come from different schemes and philosophies.

The perceived drop off b/c of Willis and Justin just isn't rationale. Both were barely on the field (60% for Justin) and Willis only played 5 games. Both performed the lowest of their careers stats-wise. That production should be replaced easily on the field like last year...leadership? That's where others such as Bowman and Dockett and others will naturally need to step up and I presume they will...easily (b/c it's who they are). While Culliver and Cox had career years I genuinely don't expect any drop off there as well. In fact, those two had little competition last year. That will NOT be the case this year. Borland is the only big loss in production on the field and the pace he was on before injury BUT Bowman has put up like-numbers as well multiple times in his career.

In short, we should remain a top 5 defense easily IMHO even with injuries (just like last year). We should remain top 5 in coverage, move up to top 5 in run defense and remain a top 3 team in TO's.

Other . . .between 10-15

Originally posted by NCommand:
How do you define the rankings? Yards, points, run defense, pass defense, etc.?

It starts with looking at the personnel and depth:
RDE: Tank Carradine; Kaleb Ramsey & Lawrence Okoye
LDE: Quinton Dial/Darnell Dockett; Tony Jerrod-Eddie
NT: Glenn Dorsey/Ian Williams; Mike Purcell & Garrison Smith
WILL: Aldon Smith; Corey Lemonier
SAM: Ahmad Brooks/Aaron Lynch
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Desmond Bishop & Shayne Skov
MIKE: Navarro Bowman; Nick Moody & Nick Bellore
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Shareece Wright & Leon McFadden
LCB: Tramaine Brock; Chris Cook & Marcus Cromartie
SLOT/NICKLE: Jimmie Ward; Kenneth Acker & Keith Reaser
FS: Eric Reid; L.J. McCray
SS: Antoine Bethea; Craig Dahl

Last year we were pretty much top 5 in pass defense, overall and #1 in TO's. I think we were around 10th in run defense with Dial playing NT for the first time ever. We had guys like Johnson (outside and in the slot), McFadden and even Cromartie starting in the secondary by the end of the year. Justin was injured as was, Willis, Bowman, Borland, Brock, Cook, Ward, Dorsey and Williams, etc. We ended the year with something like 21 players on I.R. and most were on defense yet, we STILL finished top 5 and #1 in TO's. That is just remarkable. Period.

This year we are going to have all the aforementioned players back and 100% healthy: Justin (?), Dorsey, Williams, Brock, Ward, Cook, Bowman, etc. and guys like Wilhoite, Johnson, Ward, Dial, Tank, etc. got some serious snaps and experience last year and will now be moving to their natural positions (i.e. Dial to LDE) and competing for starting bids.

Without even adding one single player (just I.R. players returning), the talent alone is top 3 in the NFL IMHO. If we add a couple pieces such as Eddie Goldman/Carl Davis to NT (2-gappers), DE like (Arik Armstead), a dynamic ILB (Stephone Anthony) and/or perhaps, a top tier CB (Trae Waynes) to compete, this defense could easily be #1 in the NFL when it's all said and done with proper scheme/timing by Mangini. The depth is insane here compared to the rest of the NFL and don't underestimate the starters as a "unit."

I have a feeling Dial and Tank are going to go OFF playing their natural positions, playing significant snaps and in making the jump in their "leap year." Pay close attention to Ward as well now that he may be 100% healthy for the first time ever. There is going to be a monster competition at CB between Johnson, Acker, Reaser, Wright, McFadden, Cook, etc. with Brock even feeling the heat now.

Mangini has a number of tools he can use. Playing against Seattle and Graham, he can move Johnson inside to the slot to cover him and still stay "big press" on the outside with a CB like Cook or others. Let's watch Ramsey and Okoye closely this year as well. Dockett is going to add a big time attitude to this front 7 and add a pass rush inside on passing downs next to Tank and Aldon and Lynch/Brooks. 2 healthy NT's for the first time ever? Nice!

I don't see a single position a rookie could come in and earn a starting spot THIS year save for possibly, NT, CB, DE and ILB. And they'd face some steep competition if they did win a starting bid...just adding more and more to our depth.

Mangini is scheduled to be more aggressive and creative in blitz schemes esp. compared to Fangio (least in the NFL). In addition, he comes from a similar school of off coverage as Fangio (i.e. building off Fangio's success here the past 4 years) and will be adding the "best" of the other three schemes in consultation with our current position (former HC/DC) coaches who come from different schemes and philosophies.

The perceived drop off b/c of Willis and Justin just isn't rationale. Both were barely on the field (60% for Justin) and Willis only played 5 games. Both performed the lowest of their careers stats-wise. That production should be replaced easily on the field like last year...leadership? That's where others such as Bowman and Dockett and others will naturally need to step up and I presume they will...easily (b/c it's who they are). While Culliver and Cox had career years I genuinely don't expect any drop off there as well. In fact, those two had little competition last year. That will NOT be the case this year. Borland is the only big loss in production on the field and the pace he was on before injury BUT Bowman has put up like-numbers as well multiple times in his career.

In short, we should remain a top 5 defense easily IMHO even with injuries (just like last year). We should remain top 5 in coverage, move up to top 5 in run defense and remain a top 3 team in TO's.

This.

I have zero faith Armstead will be our pick and I don't feel he'll be a "#1" pro player.

I'm All In on Goldman and I feel he'll be a contributor from game one.

Mangini will be a lot more aggressive than Fangio and as a result, IMO, we'll easily be top 5 - more like top 3.

ALSO - w/ a better offense our D won't be on the field so much - thereby avoiding injuries.

It's difficult to guess when we don't know if Mangini will be a good DC.

Also, we don't know if the injured players will come back 100%.

I think if everyone comes 100%, and Mangini does a good job, we have the talent to be in the top 10.

With Fangio, we would've been around the top 5 again. If Mangini coaches the defense like he's done in years past, we'll be lucky to be a top 15 defense.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by NCommand:
How do you define the rankings? Yards, points, run defense, pass defense, etc.?

It starts with looking at the personnel and depth:
RDE: Tank Carradine; Kaleb Ramsey & Lawrence Okoye
LDE: Quinton Dial/Darnell Dockett; Tony Jerrod-Eddie
NT: Glenn Dorsey/Ian Williams; Mike Purcell & Garrison Smith
WILL: Aldon Smith; Corey Lemonier
SAM: Ahmad Brooks/Aaron Lynch
TED: Michael Wilhoite; Desmond Bishop & Shayne Skov
MIKE: Navarro Bowman; Nick Moody & Nick Bellore
RCB: Dontae Johnson; Shareece Wright & Leon McFadden
LCB: Tramaine Brock; Chris Cook & Marcus Cromartie
SLOT/NICKLE: Jimmie Ward; Kenneth Acker & Keith Reaser
FS: Eric Reid; L.J. McCray
SS: Antoine Bethea; Craig Dahl

Last year we were pretty much top 5 in pass defense, overall and #1 in TO's. I think we were around 10th in run defense with Dial playing NT for the first time ever. We had guys like Johnson (outside and in the slot), McFadden and even Cromartie starting in the secondary by the end of the year. Justin was injured as was, Willis, Bowman, Borland, Brock, Cook, Ward, Dorsey and Williams, etc. We ended the year with something like 21 players on I.R. and most were on defense yet, we STILL finished top 5 and #1 in TO's. That is just remarkable. Period.

This year we are going to have all the aforementioned players back and 100% healthy: Justin (?), Dorsey, Williams, Brock, Ward, Cook, Bowman, etc. and guys like Wilhoite, Johnson, Ward, Dial, Tank, etc. got some serious snaps and experience last year and will now be moving to their natural positions (i.e. Dial to LDE) and competing for starting bids.

Without even adding one single player (just I.R. players returning), the talent alone is top 3 in the NFL IMHO. If we add a couple pieces such as Eddie Goldman/Carl Davis to NT (2-gappers), DE like (Arik Armstead), a dynamic ILB (Stephone Anthony) and/or perhaps, a top tier CB (Trae Waynes) to compete, this defense could easily be #1 in the NFL when it's all said and done with proper scheme/timing by Mangini. The depth is insane here compared to the rest of the NFL and don't underestimate the starters as a "unit."

I have a feeling Dial and Tank are going to go OFF playing their natural positions, playing significant snaps and in making the jump in their "leap year." Pay close attention to Ward as well now that he may be 100% healthy for the first time ever. There is going to be a monster competition at CB between Johnson, Acker, Reaser, Wright, McFadden, Cook, etc. with Brock even feeling the heat now.

Mangini has a number of tools he can use. Playing against Seattle and Graham, he can move Johnson inside to the slot to cover him and still stay "big press" on the outside with a CB like Cook or others. Let's watch Ramsey and Okoye closely this year as well. Dockett is going to add a big time attitude to this front 7 and add a pass rush inside on passing downs next to Tank and Aldon and Lynch/Brooks. 2 healthy NT's for the first time ever? Nice!

I don't see a single position a rookie could come in and earn a starting spot THIS year save for possibly, NT, CB, DE and ILB. And they'd face some steep competition if they did win a starting bid...just adding more and more to our depth.

Mangini is scheduled to be more aggressive and creative in blitz schemes esp. compared to Fangio (least in the NFL). In addition, he comes from a similar school of off coverage as Fangio (i.e. building off Fangio's success here the past 4 years) and will be adding the "best" of the other three schemes in consultation with our current position (former HC/DC) coaches who come from different schemes and philosophies.

The perceived drop off b/c of Willis and Justin just isn't rationale. Both were barely on the field (60% for Justin) and Willis only played 5 games. Both performed the lowest of their careers stats-wise. That production should be replaced easily on the field like last year...leadership? That's where others such as Bowman and Dockett and others will naturally need to step up and I presume they will...easily (b/c it's who they are). While Culliver and Cox had career years I genuinely don't expect any drop off there as well. In fact, those two had little competition last year. That will NOT be the case this year. Borland is the only big loss in production on the field and the pace he was on before injury BUT Bowman has put up like-numbers as well multiple times in his career.

In short, we should remain a top 5 defense easily IMHO even with injuries (just like last year). We should remain top 5 in coverage, move up to top 5 in run defense and remain a top 3 team in TO's.

This.

I have zero faith Armstead will be our pick and I don't feel he'll be a "#1" pro player.

I'm All In on Goldman and I feel he'll be a contributor from game one.

Mangini will be a lot more aggressive than Fangio and as a result, IMO, we'll easily be top 5 - more like top 3.

ALSO - w/ a better offense our D won't be on the field so much - thereby avoiding injuries.

I don't think he will be either BUT, I could see Mangini wanting to go the way of the old Patriots defense: 2-gap NT like Danny Shelton/Eddie Goldman/Carl Davis (ala Vince Wilfork) and Arik Armstead (ala Richard Seymour who was 6'6" 310 himself). But you know me...I'm in favor of trading back a bit and picking up another 2nd or 3rd while also grabbing Goldman as well. Win-win. Unless Shelton falls