Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's funny because it seems like 49ers fans make more excuses for Luck than Colts fans do lol.

When Luck was struggling, Colts fans and especially the national media were just destroying the guy. Calling him overrated, part of the problem, something wrong with him.

It's utterly ridiculous if you ask me. Typical knee jerk reaction. People are so hyper-reactionary when a QB has a bad game or bad throw, whether it's Kap, Luck, or somebody else. People even calling Peyton Manning a bad QB now.

Track record doesn't matter anymore, people just hide in the bushes until the next bad game, then they leap out and criticize.

LOL. This is not one game as has been said before. He's not progressing or getting better in the pocket and has not looked terrific much in the last 2 seasons. That's the argument. I think some of you need to worry less about other QB's and worry about our own.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Again, here's the narrative from the media and fanbase:

1st 2 weeks -- He's showing improvement. The off-season work is paying off.
Last game -- He completely sucks. Off-season work was all for nothing.

If that's not flip-flopping, I don't know what is. I'm supposed to take their opinion seriously? They can't stick to their story for any more than a week.

I watch the games too. I know we're 9-10 in our last 19. There's this irrational notion that once you miss the playoffs, you're NEVER going back. Kap can NEVER recover, It's all downhill from here, because that's the directional "trend" based on little more than one season.

This is the NFL. Teams go up and down. QB's have down years and good years. You lose talent, take your losses, re-stock the roster, and get back in the playoffs. It's not complicated. We're in the re-stock the roster phase. We'll be fine, just have to ride it out and take our lumps.

Teams go up and down based on the play of their QB. Let's have a look at Collins' win/loss and Int/TD SINCE HE HAD HIS FIRST START, shall we? Maybe make a graph for people who have a hard time with numbers? I don't know. Is it going up or down?

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:

9-10 the last 19 games. Im sorry you think that's fickle but I've seen this coming for a while now. Luck, Brady, blah blah, who cares?

I'm not trying to be a hater but I don't see it. I mean, can you tell me the areas Kaep has taken a step forward in in 2014? I watched a flatlined QB all last year and it was always someone else's fault. I have given him the benefit of the doubt this year, but again where has he taken a step forward?

Now I'm not saying he sucks, but I do think he's middle of the pack. That's good enough for now, but he's not a guy you strive for. Hell back in 2013 I called him a potential Lebron James of the NFL. His skill set is one of a kind. LBJ took off and became great, Kaep though has become stale.

Difference is Lebron can dominate the NBA on physical ability alone. Sure he's worked on his game but he's the best because,of his athletic skill set. Doesn't work that way in football. Coaching is a huge component. Unfortunately we have seen Kap get a passing gameplan that suits him for one half of one game so far in his career. The AZ game of last year was the blueprint of what should be done. Instead both the previous regime and the current one can't seem to grasp that because they are so blinded by the we have to run the football mantra to change things. No QB in the NFL that has had consistent success is in an offense like ours. Every successful one makes the short passing game a priority early and often. What sad is Walsh is the guy who came up with that yet our team has lost our way from it the last 12 years.

We can move on from Kap. We can fire Tomsula. We can axe Baalke. At the end of the day if the new regime keeps the 9er offensive way of the last decade plus nothing will change. Just end up wasting an elite defense and blaming the GM for not being able to get the skill positions necessary to make a mediocre passing system work.

Preach, Sofaking.

Originally posted by Stud:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's funny because it seems like 49ers fans make more excuses for Luck than Colts fans do lol.

When Luck was struggling, Colts fans and especially the national media were just destroying the guy. Calling him overrated, part of the problem, something wrong with him.

It's utterly ridiculous if you ask me. Typical knee jerk reaction. People are so hyper-reactionary when a QB has a bad game or bad throw, whether it's Kap, Luck, or somebody else. People even calling Peyton Manning a bad QB now.

Track record doesn't matter anymore, people just hide in the bushes until the next bad game, then they leap out and criticize.

LOL. This is not one game as has been said before. He's not progressing or getting better in the pocket and has not looked terrific much in the last 2 seasons. That's the argument. I think some of you need to worry less about other QB's and worry about our own.

Stud has a good argument, he has regressed, in fact he has looked down right terrible the last two seasons.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Difference is Lebron can dominate the NBA on physical ability alone. Sure he's worked on his game but he's the best because,of his athletic skill set. Doesn't work that way in football. Coaching is a huge component. Unfortunately we have seen Kap get a passing gameplan that suits him for one half of one game so far in his career. The AZ game of last year was the blueprint of what should be done. Instead both the previous regime and the current one can't seem to grasp that because they are so blinded by the we have to run the football mantra to change things. No QB in the NFL that has had consistent success is in an offense like ours. Every successful one makes the short passing game a priority early and often. What sad is Walsh is the guy who came up with that yet our team has lost our way from it the last 12 years.

We can move on from Kap. We can fire Tomsula. We can axe Baalke. At the end of the day if the new regime keeps the 9er offensive way of the last decade plus nothing will change. Just end up wasting an elite defense and blaming the GM for not being able to get the skill positions necessary to make a mediocre passing system work.

This is just my opinion, but in order to have a short passing game you have to a QB who can read a defense pre-snap and/or make quick decisions. This is a quality in QB's that makes one great and others middle of the pack. I'm not entirely sure Kaep has this aspect to his game. These decisions need to be made in less than a second, and also need to be established pre-snap. It's part of being a GREAT QB.

So it's not as easy as saying "this is what needs to be done", but it's a matter of execution. I thought Romans concepts were pretty good, except the execution was not there. Was this all on Kaep? At times, but not all the time.

Like I was saying earlier sometimes you need to step into the pocket and either let a play develop or to make a throw. This is something I think Kaepernick struggled/struggles at mightily. The Torrey throw, all he needed to do was take a step away from the pressure(forward), set his feet, and hit his target. This doesn't mean shuffle forward, reset, and hit the throw, but it does means buy you that extra .3 seconds so you are not throwing in horrible position while getting hit. It's so intricate yet so huge. It comes down to an extra .3 seconds, and having your feet set. Stuff like this is what separates the big boys from the little boys.

Originally posted by Stud:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

It's funny because it seems like 49ers fans make more excuses for Luck than Colts fans do lol.

When Luck was struggling, Colts fans and especially the national media were just destroying the guy. Calling him overrated, part of the problem, something wrong with him.

It's utterly ridiculous if you ask me. Typical knee jerk reaction. People are so hyper-reactionary when a QB has a bad game or bad throw, whether it's Kap, Luck, or somebody else. People even calling Peyton Manning a bad QB now.

Track record doesn't matter anymore, people just hide in the bushes until the next bad game, then they leap out and criticize.

LOL. This is not one game as has been said before. He's not progressing or getting better in the pocket and has not looked terrific much in the last 2 seasons. That's the argument. I think some of you need to worry less about other QB's and worry about our own.

Yeah sofa, kap has been sucking for some time now. It's been obvious since last season I think harbaugh could just hide it better than tomsula can. This year kap is just looking completely awful. It isn't like we dominated Minnesota by any means on offense. It was a boring game. And Pitt and Arizona we got blown out the water in every phase of the game. Quarterback and head coach always deserve the most blame. They are easily considered the most important parts of the machine.

Originally posted by Stud:
LOL. This is not one game as has been said before. He's not progressing or getting better in the pocket and has not looked terrific much in the last 2 seasons. That's the argument. I think some of you need to worry less about other QB's and worry about our own.

It's his critics who constantly compare him to other QBs, I've provided examples that even those QBs need quality offensive line play, and when they didn't, their performance suffered greatly. Does anyone care? No. Kap is supposed to magically overcome what other QBs don't, not even the good ones. Look at Brady's stats under pressure. It's hideous. 100+ with no pressure, 50-60 under pressure. Now go ahead and tell me that poor offensive line play doesn't have anything to do with Kap's decline..

Does he need to clean up his mechanics and timing on throws? Absolutely. But I think people are overly critical of him. This is still a career 89.1 QB rating passer. That would rank him among the Top 10 of active starting QBs today, and ahead of many QBs that zoners gush over.. In 2 years this guy won more playoff games than many other QBs have in 10 years. He's working hard to make the right improvements to his game.

Not excusing Kap for his own mistakes, but before Sunday, things were looking up for him. That doesn't change after one game. Truth be told, I'm more worried about the offensive line than Kaepernick.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
This is just my opinion, but in order to have a short passing game you have to a QB who can read a defense pre-snap and/or make quick decisions. This is a quality in QB's that makes one great and others middle of the pack. I'm not entirely sure Kaep has this aspect to his game. These decisions need to be made in less than a second, and also need to be established pre-snap. It's part of being a GREAT QB.

So it's not as easy as saying "this is what needs to be done", but it's a matter of execution. I thought Romans concepts were pretty good, except the execution was not there. Was this all on Kaep? At times, but not all the time.

Like I was saying earlier sometimes you need to step into the pocket and either let a play develop or to make a throw. This is something I think Kaepernick struggled/struggles at mightily. The Torrey throw, all he needed to do was take a step away from the pressure(forward), set his feet, and hit his target. This doesn't mean shuffle forward, reset, and hit the throw, but it does means buy you that extra .3 seconds so you are not throwing in horrible position while getting hit. It's so intricate yet so huge. It comes down to an extra .3 seconds, and having your feet set. Stuff like this is what separates the big boys from the little boys.

There have been several games in his career as our starter where we opened up the game with quick short passes to move the chains that way. Every time Kap did a good job with that type of game plan. I'm pretty sure if he gets time to get his mechanics right it won't be an issue.

Originally posted by SundayTicket:
Yeah sofa, kap has been sucking for some time now. It's been obvious since last season I think harbaugh could just hide it better than tomsula can. This year kap is just looking completely awful. It isn't like we dominated Minnesota by any means on offense. It was a boring game. And Pitt and Arizona we got blown out the water in every phase of the game. Quarterback and head coach always deserve the most blame. They are easily considered the most important parts of the machine.

I would disagree that Kap was awful the 1st 2 weeks. He looked decisive and was making the right reads. All that went to hell against Arizona, he was downright brutal. I saw it too.

All I'm saying is I'm not going to judge his entire season off of one game. I'm not going to judge his season after a month, even. I want to see what Kap does for 16 games with an offensive line that's not the worst in the NFL. Unfortunately for him, he won't get that. This offensive line is brutal. When he had a decent to good offensive line, he was playing well in the playoffs and making a run at the SB. I don't want to give up on a player like that.

Originally posted by genus49:
There have been several games in his career as our starter where we opened up the game with quick short passes to move the chains that way. Every time Kap did a good job with that type of game plan. I'm pretty sure if he gets time to get his mechanics right it won't be an issue.

Can't argue with that. I just feel his mechanics are a huge mess right now. I think it's precisely what he want to Warner for and it's not paying off yet. As you've said he's done it before, but to me it's just not natural for him and extremely inconsistent.

Originally posted by Stud:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
It's funny because it seems like 49ers fans make more excuses for Luck than Colts fans do lol.

When Luck was struggling, Colts fans and especially the national media were just destroying the guy. Calling him overrated, part of the problem, something wrong with him.

It's utterly ridiculous if you ask me. Typical knee jerk reaction. People are so hyper-reactionary when a QB has a bad game or bad throw, whether it's Kap, Luck, or somebody else. People even calling Peyton Manning a bad QB now.

Track record doesn't matter anymore, people just hide in the bushes until the next bad game, then they leap out and criticize.

LOL. This is not one game as has been said before. He's not progressing or getting better in the pocket and has not looked terrific much in the last 2 seasons. That's the argument. I think some of you need to worry less about other QB's and worry about our own.

Who knows what Kaerpernick will be by seasons end, but he has made progress this year, just not consistent or complete. He is a work in progress going from a run first super athlete to a mature pocket first, run if you have to QB. That's a tough transistion and many have failed to complete it successfully.

Michael Vick and Randall Cunningham were two of my favorite QBs coming into the NFL. Randall worked to improve his over all game and really was quite good...but didn't make the transition until he was too old. Vick is an example of someone who may never be able to make the transition. Great athlete but just not able to think like a pocket guy.

Kaepernick has more talent than either of those QBs and is starting the transition earlier than they did. The pick sixes last week were so obviously thinking before throwing...changing his mindset, but it's not fluid yet. Why have faith? Because he's bright, understands the need and is working hard to overcome. Randall fought it and admitted he was too stubborn when he was younger. I think Vick knows he has to be better in the pocket but it may be too late...he's 35.

The QB who best made the transition was Steve Young and he made it to the top. He was 26 when he joined the 49ers and began his transition finally starting around age 30...with the greatest QB coach in history--Bill Walsh.

Kaepernick is 27 so he has time to make the transition and still have great years ahead.

I'm not saying that any of these guys stopped running and became P Mannings. They learned to pass first and use their legs to keep the defenses honest. Lengthened their careers and, in Young's case, helped him into the Hall of Fame.

Originally posted by gmoney:
I was watching Kaep highlights on youtube, and all I can say is, where is that guy full of swagger? Where is the guy just running when he sees an opening or throwing darts (and I mean darts) to streaking receivers? (Side not: Vernon Davis used to be such a baller. I have no idea who this new guy is for the past few years. 0 toughness, energy, or desire) Whatever is going on with Kaep, he has regressed the more he has tried to improve. In my opinion, the QB who dominated games and led us to a superbowl was a guy who just went out and played football how he knew, not worrying about when to and when not to run, altering his throwing motion, changing his footwork etc. All that these things have done is confuse the guy and he seems like he has no idea what he wants to do at any time in a game.

Sometimes when you try to improve, it actually makes it worse. That is what has happened with Kaep. He needs to stop worrying about everything and just go play football and be his old self, where he had fun playing. It makes me sad as a fan to see the guy play like this and always look so frazzled and worried about what is going on.

There's an element of truth to this. I remember Steve Young saying when he transitioned from scrambler to passer, he had to take one step back before he could take 2 steps forward. The toughest part was re-wiring his brain to make certain habits instinctual. He was fortunate he had time to develop, not becoming a full-time starter until he was 30. People didn't see the trials and tribulations it took to progress that far, he showed up in spot duty and made the occasional start behind Montana. Had he been the starter upon arrival, people here would have run him out of town like Tampa did.

But it's a transition that Kap has to make. That 2012 season was awesome, but the zone-read stuff doesn't work anymore unless you can balance it out with some true pocket passing. Defenses are smart, they'll take away what you do best and force you to adjust. You add a few wrinkles to your arsenal, and then you have options to attack defenses and counter whatever they throw at you.. That's why he's going to such painstaking lengths to learn that aspect of the game. There's no avoiding it.

I liked the Kaepernick I saw in Weeks 1 and 2. I saw a cool, calm QB going through his reads and completing a high % of his throws, accurately, and on time. That all collapsed against AZ, but it was one game. He gets an opportunity to bounce back. There was more wrong in that AZ game than just Kap. This team has big problems, from the worst offensive line in football, to one of the worst pass defenses in football.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

It's his critics who constantly compare him to other QBs, I've provided examples that even those QBs need quality offensive line play, and when they didn't, their performance suffered greatly. Does anyone care? No. Kap is supposed to magically overcome what other QBs don't, not even the good ones. Look at Brady's stats under pressure. It's hideous. 100+ with no pressure, 50-60 under pressure. Now go ahead and tell me that poor offensive line play doesn't have anything to do with Kap's decline..

Does he need to clean up his mechanics and timing on throws? Absolutely. But I think people are overly critical of him. This is still a career 89.1 QB rating passer. That would rank him among the Top 10 of active starting QBs today, and ahead of many QBs that zoners gush over.. In 2 years this guy won more playoff games than many other QBs have in 10 years. He's working hard to make the right improvements to his game.

Not excusing Kap for his own mistakes, but before Sunday, things were looking up for him. That doesn't change after one game. Truth be told, I'm more worried about the offensive line than Kaepernick.

Who keeps bringing up Luck? And now Brady. How many times has Lucks INTs been brought up? People defending Kaeps by bringing up other QBs.

Who cares about Lucks INTs, his INTs don't affect the 49ers!

WWE Wrestler Roman Reigns is a 49er fan and he just settled the Kaepernick debate
On whether Colin Kaepernick is the guy for his 49ers:

"No. I'm not a Kaepernick guy at all."



Go ahead and delete this thread and trade Kaep