Who's Right? Harbaugh/Coaches . . . . . or . . . . . Baalke/York/Mgmt?

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:

Originally posted by thl408:
I wonder if those that voted management being wrong, if most of those posters view the Harbaugh era as the first winning era of 49er football. Meaning they are the younger fans (age 30 or younger). All they knew was Erickson/Nolan/Sing and that 49er football was pitiful. Then Harbaugh comes and the 49ers finally win. Then management lets him go and it's wtf. Those that saw any of the 5 SB victories at an adult age are less angry about Harbaugh being let go. Just a hypothesis.

I think you're probably right, in that the Harbaugh fans are likely the less experienced or less analytic types; more reactionary.

I'm hoping that this shakes out like the Mark Jackson deal with the Warriors where the majority supported Jackson, but they were wrong.

I wouldn't call the younger fans less analytic (more reactionary). Being analytic about a situation is more personality than it is age when talking about adults, imo. It's that they finally get a taste of winning 49er football as an adult, and they feel it's taken away due to personality/football philosophical differences between Jim and management. To those fans, it's more of "Whats the big deal? The Niners are finally winning. Work it out."

I know I'm making a broad generalization here.

I never thought much of Marriuci and thought he should have been fired sooner than he was. Mooch started 6-0 at Cal then lost the rest of his games his only year there and only got the job because Seifert couldn't beat the Packers and Mooch was Favre's QB Coach so we thought because Holmgren knew us and beat us we could turn around and do that with Marriuci To them. Mooch had two teams I thought should have at least went further than they did. The team that lost to GB 23-10 at home in the NFC Title game the year we had Woodson. We had 2 TDs called back in that game that should have stood. The other team was the one that lost to the Falcons in the Divisonal Round when Hearst got hurt. I thought both of those teams especially the one that played the Falcons was more talented than we played. The last real memory I have of Mooch was running the clock out on the road in the first half against TB in the playoffs. We were down 14-6 at the time and we had the ball at mid field with a minute left. 49ers wouldn't have won that game I know. Either way he needed to go I just had a problem with who they hired, Erikson sucked and everyone knew it.

Now with Harbaugh it's the same thing. I know he turned the team around but I also believe he took over a more talented roster than Erikson took over. I also believe Harbaugh should have won the SB instead of losing to his brother and his Ravens team. Here we are again with another coach I have no idea about in Tomsula. The difference this time is Tomsula has at least had success at the NFL level as a position coach and he's taking over a much more talented roster than the one Erikson got from Marriuci and Donahue. Now IMO it was time for Jim to go. The O was getting worse and what was really alarming was the lack of fundamental discipline on offense in combination with the turnovers. We always had a lot of penalties under Jim but it was the type of penalties we were starting to incur. The false starts and delay of game penalties at critical times piled up this year. Every offensive game looked like the previous one. Lack of execution and creativity on offense and the entire unit played with zero sense of urgency in the 2nd half of games.

Finally you started to hear the players complaing about the schemes after losses this year. I heard even players like Frank Gore were sitting at their lockers after games worried about their touches and questioning the play calling at times. To many coaches having a hand in the game planning and way to many calling plays on game days. Roman's strong suit was supposed to be the ground game but that got worse this year and he showed no creativity with the passing game. Still Harbaugh was not about to fire him and showed no interest in adjusting how Kap got the plays in the huddle so they could get to the line faster or at the very least not have to burn TOs coming out of a break. Maybe the 49ers were tired of Harbaugh's act, his personality, whatever but I thought they wanted to get rid of him in the offseason. Then I hear they decided he wouldn't be back after the second Seattle loss which tells me as much as they hated Jim Jed would have put up with it had they continued to win. Problem is the 49ers looked horrible on O this year under a coach who is known for his offense. The O was at best serviceable at it's peak under Harbaugh and it cost us this season. If the team is going to not win, look worse and not try to adjust and have a coach the owner can't get along with then fire him, especially if you believe the team should be winning.

The FO sold Harbaugh on the fact we had a more talented roster out of the teams that wanted him. Nobody else thought that, as most of the media and critics said an 8-8 season in Harbaugh's first year would be overachieving. The FO believes they still have a roster that should have been better than they were last year. I think along with a talented roster unlike in 2003 and this year we also have a competent GM in place with some help in Gamble. I have no problem with Tomsula being the coach and I will have no problem with them firing Harbaugh even if we were to go 0-16 this year as long as they are willing to fire Tomsula and admit they made a mistake. Not the mistake of firing Harbaugh but hiring Tomsula.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:

Originally posted by thl408:
I wonder if those that voted management being wrong, if most of those posters view the Harbaugh era as the first winning era of 49er football. Meaning they are the younger fans (age 30 or younger). All they knew was Erickson/Nolan/Sing and that 49er football was pitiful. Then Harbaugh comes and the 49ers finally win. Then management lets him go and it's wtf. Those that saw any of the 5 SB victories at an adult age are less angry about Harbaugh being let go. Just a hypothesis.

I think you're probably right, in that the Harbaugh fans are likely the less experienced or less analytic types; more reactionary.

I'm hoping that this shakes out like the Mark Jackson deal with the Warriors where the majority supported Jackson, but they were wrong.

I'm 30 and I remember Mariucci, I don't remember a lot of Seifert era. I didn't become a NFL/49ers fan until the 1994 season/1995 SB.

AB, I know where you stand on this situation. At your age, and I'm assuming here, but you probably became very aware of team issues and such at the age of 15ish I'm guessing - which is the Mooch era like you said. The '05 SB to you was a faint childhood memory at the age of 10ish. I'm 37 so when the 49ers won their last SB, I was 17. I remember the SB, and I remember the few years trying to get past the Cowpies. But I don't remember the minute details of each game like I do nowadays.

Anyway, point is I can die tomorrow and say "yeah I saw a 49er SB victory". There are many fans, younger than you, that suffered for years through Erickson/Nolan/Sing as their first memories of 49er football. The 49ers finally get it together under Harbaugh, then this offseason happens. I completely understand where those fans are coming from and the anger they feel towards management.

If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos afterall Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Rascal:
If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos afterall Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

But they won't be the ones that prove you wrong. It will be the coaches and players that will ultimately prove the wisdom of York/Balke to be correct or not. So my question is "Why not root for the current group to be wildly successful"?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:

Originally posted by thl408:
I wonder if those that voted management being wrong, if most of those posters view the Harbaugh era as the first winning era of 49er football. Meaning they are the younger fans (age 30 or younger). All they knew was Erickson/Nolan/Sing and that 49er football was pitiful. Then Harbaugh comes and the 49ers finally win. Then management lets him go and it's wtf. Those that saw any of the 5 SB victories at an adult age are less angry about Harbaugh being let go. Just a hypothesis.

I think you're probably right, in that the Harbaugh fans are likely the less experienced or less analytic types; more reactionary.

I'm hoping that this shakes out like the Mark Jackson deal with the Warriors where the majority supported Jackson, but they were wrong.

I'm 30 and I remember Mariucci, I don't remember a lot of Seifert era. I didn't become a NFL/49ers fan until the 1994 season/1995 SB.

AB, I know where you stand on this situation. At your age, and I'm assuming here, but you probably became very aware of team issues and such at the age of 15ish I'm guessing - which is the Mooch era like you said. The '05 SB to you was a faint childhood memory at the age of 10ish. I'm 37 so when the 49ers won their last SB, I was 17. I remember the SB, and I remember the few years trying to get past the Cowpies. But I don't remember the minute details of each game like I do nowadays.

Anyway, point is I can die tomorrow and say "yeah I saw a 49er SB victory". There are many fans, younger than you, that suffered for years through Erickson/Nolan/Sing as their first memories of 49er football. The 49ers finally get it together under Harbaugh, then this offseason happens. I completely understand where those fans are coming from and the anger they feel towards management.

I never cared about who was on the team to be honest until the early 2000s when we had Jeff Garcia, and Owens, etc... I started doing the salary cap stuff I want to say around like 2003 ish when Erickson started.

When I was 15 I was I think in like 10th grade at the time. I was a fan before then, I think I really started watching games in the late 90s. I remember the 49ers always being on when we played Dallas.

I actually watched games now that I think of it when I would spend the weekend at my dad's and my grandparents house. But I never knew the players, or the records of the seasons. I didn't get the NFL ticket until the 2006 season, and before then, from like idk 2000-2005 we would go to like a sports grill/bar every weekend to watch the games, It actually ended around like 2003 when I started working for the 1st time. Last time I remember being there was like 2005, when we beat Houston in the last game of the season, which was dubbed the Bush Bowl.

Originally posted by Rascal:
If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos afterall Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

I honestly question whether or not Kap is the right QB for us. I just see him at times as nothing more than a gimmicky QB, then sometimes he does something great, but IDK, I think it's 50-50 on whether he improves or not. I think he has a max of 2 more years before the FO will cut him. He really screwed up by giving the 49ers a great deal, cause he can be cut easily in the next 2 offseasons without a huge hit.

Originally posted by eastie:

Originally posted by Rascal:
If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos afterall Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

But they won't be the ones that prove you wrong. It will be the coaches and players that will ultimately prove the wisdom of York/Balke to be correct or not. So my question is "Why not root for the current group to be wildly successful"?

I wish Jed/Baalke would of been more serious about the process. They knew they wanted Tomsula, and if so, then why didn't York just hire him as HC back in 2011 if he actually feels that Tomsula will be a better HC than Harbs was or ever will be? Makes no sense, which is why I think they hired the guy who won't give them trouble, who is seen as a Yes man, who has no real say in roster moves, or the draft.

I mean yeah Harbs was an a*****e at times, but so are guys like Carroll and Belicheck, but you would never see SEA or NE fire them after 3 winning seasons, and 1 500 season.

I see it as though that no coach with a lot of experience would of came here with the way York treated the whole Harbaugh situation. And I know that some NFL people view Tomsula as a 1 and done HC, which he might very well be.

Originally posted by Vito_Corleone:

I was kind of surprised to see in today's article that Jeff Garcia was bashing York / Baalke, and that 90% of the comments agreed that York is a 'dork' and 'buffoon', etc

I searched and didn't see any polls on York vs Harbaugh, and I was curious to see what the actual percentages on each side of the argument were

I think it will be interesting to look back in 9 months to see what people thought . . . . And it's not like I'm charging admission to take the poll.

Hommie, its simple... Jim H. Won games and the front office and coaches had personial issues which wrecked the team... Jim knows how to win and he is gone...

We had a bunch of brilliant coaches, staff and front office people who had one issue... pride. This was are big fall

Originally posted by Rascal:
If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos after all Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

I agree, outside of the webzone the vast majority of fans around the NFL think that the 49ers have imploded, Jed York is worst owner in NFL and 49ers are a big joke! I also agree that the HC and OC hiring was disappointing. I wish we could have hired a great OC. But hopefully the new chemistry works out well and the new offense takes off. If the offense or defense does poorly, they will probably hire a new OC or DC next year.

Harbaugh brought us to 3 NFC championship games and a Superbowl in 4 seasons. I'm siding with Harbaugh and I don't see how you can't. His only "bad" season was when we were average with 8-8 while being riddled with injuries.

It was a dumbf*ck move. Windows of opportunity don't stay open very long, unless you have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers type QB.

Originally posted by Kuya:

Harbaugh brought us to 3 NFC championship games and a Superbowl in 4 seasons. I'm siding with Harbaugh and I don't see how you can't. His only "bad" season was when we were average with 8-8 while being riddled with injuries.

It was a dumbf*ck move. Windows of opportunity don't stay open very long, unless you have a Peyton Manning/Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers type QB.

Our defense carried harbaugh...you should praise fangio for the 4 years

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Our defense carried harbaugh...you should praise fangio for the 4 years

Exactly, our offense sucked and got WORSE every year! Our defense was good, and Harbaugh didn't do anything for that.

Originally posted by eastie:

Originally posted by Rascal:
If you ask Webzone then I can bet you any dollar the majority will side with York and Baalke. But, if you want to gauge a more balanced view of the entire 49ers fan base outside of Webzone, then I would say Jeff Garcia is spot on.

Initially, I resisted trying to be overly critical with the move, but once I saw the HC hiring debacle, that was the very last straw for me. I did want to have an open mind at the start cos afterall Harbaugh couldn't sort out Kap and the offense and we ended up with a 8-8 season. But, come on Jim Tomsula?! That is just the pits!! I cringe everytime I see one of his interviews to a point I now no longer want to watch nor hear what the heck he has to say anymore.

So, absolutely as a fan I have the right and will continue to slam York and Baalke until they prove me wrong.

But they won't be the ones that prove you wrong. It will be the coaches and players that will ultimately prove the wisdom of York/Balke to be correct or not. So my question is "Why not root for the current group to be wildly successful"?

Why not?

Because if I have to be honest with myself, I wouldn't have picked a single one of the current coaches.