49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Never said he got crushed weekly - I said he took far too many hits overall from a porous OL (in particular, the interior of the OL). I'm saying they need to add more talent to the interior and they've started doing that by adding Richburg. Again, I realize it's obvious stuff I'm saying...and other posters have elaborated on this point.

You'd think it'd be obvious. LOL

Exactly. Garoppolo performed remarkably well behind an interior of Kilgore, Tomlinson, and Fusco...and w/ Beadles trying to hold down RT vs. the likes of Clowney, etc. But again, in doing so he took far too many tough hits for my liking. Kilgore and Fusco seemed to pick up their play towards the end of the season, to their credit.

When you have probably the best T duo in the game regarding pass protection, and still give as many hits as Seattle, that means the mass majority of those are coming right up the gut...and it didn't matter who the QB was...Hoyer, BeatHard or Garoppolo...they were all getting tattooed way more than they should have.

I think getting Kilgore out of here and Richburg in greatly increases the entire OL performance. I'm not ready to throw away Tomlinson and Garnett without seeing if any rookie can beat them out. It's certainly not set in stone that those two won't be the opening day starters.

Originally posted by Ark49er:

I think getting Kilgore out of here and Richburg in greatly increases the entire OL performance. I'm not ready to throw away Tomlinson and Garnett without seeing if any rookie can beat them out. It's certainly not set in stone that those two won't be the opening day starters.

True, true.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Wrong about how many devastating hits he took.

It simply didn't happen.

I'm not saying we won't add a guard or two but saying Garappolo got crushed weekly is flat out wrong.

He took some big hits. People would have made a bigger deal over it had he been sacked but because he got the ball away right before being smashed, people mostly focused on the positive gain and not Garoppolo having to pull himself back up to his feet after being hit again.

Ideally you don't want DL that close to your QB, bearing down on him just as he's getting rid of the ball repeatedly.

There is absolutely no reason that this team cannot and should not do better than guys like Tomlinson.

If he hit the open market his offers would largely be bupkis because he's a marginal lineman at best. No reason to settle for just okay or only slightly mediocre. They can and should do better.

Truth on all counts!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Never said he got crushed weekly - I said he took far too many hits overall from a porous OL (in particular, the interior of the OL). I'm saying they need to add more talent to the interior and they've started doing that by adding Richburg. Again, I realize it's obvious stuff I'm saying...and other posters have elaborated on this point.

You'd think it'd be obvious. LOL

based on what?? what was seen on TV, or eyewitness--live views of actin at home games?? cuz on TV they did not show that many "devastating" late hits--nor do I recall a single penalty called for such a hit. so, again, why is it so obvious, or is this just some overstated argument that begs to be questioned?

I just gave you concrete evidence.

you gave me stats for the whole year--not exactly "concrete evidence" regarding JG's last 5 games.

I agree--ANY hit on JG is one too many--just like any concussion is one too many--but let's not forget, this is football, not soccer or ice dancing.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Wrong about what? Unless you're kidding. What I'm stating pretty much falls into the department of Captain Obvious.

Wrong about how many devastating hits he took.

It simply didn't happen.

I'm not saying we won't add a guard or two but saying Garappolo got crushed weekly is flat out wrong.

Originally posted by NCommand:

116 Hits alone...2nd in the NFC...to...Seattle with 121.

QB Hits

You might need to go to to individual game splits. But you KNOW, a very small % of those hits were because of Staley & Brown.

PFF tracks pressures.

How many of those were when Hoyer and Beathard were starting??

Pocket awareness plays a HUGE part in QB hits and pressures.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
you gave me stats for the whole year--not exactly "concrete evidence" regarding JG's last 5 games.

I agree--ANY hit on JG is one too many--just like any concussion is one too many--but let's not forget, this is football, not soccer or ice dancing.

We don't forget it's football. How about this: From one "older" Niner dude (fan since mid-'70s) to another, can we agree the play of the OL needs to be improved - in particular, at the two G positions?

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

JG's first action--last three plays in second game vs Seattle. not exactly a "devastating" hit--nor evidence of a consistent pattern in the remaining 5 games.

nice try, tho.

Huh???



That was from the Jaguars game.

Originally posted by NCommand:
When you have probably the best T duo in the game regarding pass protection, and still give as many hits as Seattle, that means the mass majority of those are coming right up the gut...and it didn't matter who the QB was...Hoyer, BeatHard or Garoppolo...they were all getting tattooed way more than they should have.

Hoyer and CJ took far more punishment than JG--proportionately--because they did not release their passes as quickly. That is NOT evidence that JG was "obviously" taking alot of "devastating" late hits consistently.

to the contrary, one could argue that it is evidence that JG did NOT get hit that much in comparison.

the interior o-line needed to be addressed--based on their performance in the first 9 games. but the argument that the interior o-line needed to be addressed because JG "obviously" took too many devastating late hits is specious and unsupported--or "flat wrong" as steve young pointed out above

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
Wrong about what? Unless you're kidding. What I'm stating pretty much falls into the department of Captain Obvious.

Wrong about how many devastating hits he took.

It simply didn't happen.

I'm not saying we won't add a guard or two but saying Garappolo got crushed weekly is flat out wrong.

question for all those saying that JG took too many hits after he released the pass--what's the basis of that statement, or is it just hyperbole?

116 Hits alone...2nd in the NFC...to...Seattle with 121.

QB Hits

You might need to go to to individual game splits. But you KNOW, a very small % of those hits were because of Staley & Brown.

PFF tracks pressures.

Hits are to be avoided. Beahards took some horrible hits because he held the ball too long and was not very nimble in the pocket. JG took hits that were usually after release of the ball, because he is so darn quick.

But why on earth would we not improve pass protection? My main disagreement with Harbaugh/Baalke was that the OL tended to be built for power running rather than movement and pass protection. So, Shanahan does not need five first round picks on the OL to succeed. He needs smart mobile guys who are tenacious.

The OL needs to take every hit personally.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
JG's first action--last three plays in second game vs Seattle. not exactly a "devastating" hit--nor evidence of a consistent pattern in the remaining 5 games.

nice try, tho.

Huh???

That was from the Jaguars game.

sorry, my bad. Jax not Seattle.

still not evidence of a consistent pattern of such hits over the last 5 games.

isn't this the hit that JG--after the game said he had to apologize to Beadles for cause he made a mistaken call or did not get the ball out soon enough? I think he said that in his presser after the game. so its really evidence of the unusual nature of such hits--not their "obvious" consistency or frequency in the last 5 games

As far as o-line goes it feels as if the picture is getting more clear. It seems as if the front office is likin the Work Joshua Garnett has put in. Maybe they envision him as being successful after changing his body An husband level of intelligence. I really want that kid from Notre Dame in the first round

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

When you have probably the best T duo in the game regarding pass protection, and still give as many hits as Seattle, that means the mass majority of those are coming right up the gut...and it didn't matter who the QB was...Hoyer, BeatHard or Garoppolo...they were all getting tattooed way more than they should have.

Hoyer and CJ took far more punishment than JG--proportionately--because they did not release their passes as quickly. That is NOT evidence that JG was "obviously" taking alot of "devastating" late hits consistently.

to the contrary, one could argue that it is evidence that JG did NOT get hit that much in comparison.

the interior o-line needed to be addressed--based on their performance in the first 9 games. but the argument that the interior o-line needed to be addressed because JG "obviously" took too many devastating late hits is specious and unsupported--or "flat wrong" as steve young pointed out above

People were claiming JG was still getting hit too much and moved off his spot (pressures) despite masking it better. The OL didn't magically change.

You disagree but a simple proportioned average of hits and pressures over the 9 vs. 5 should be simple proof for both parties.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Hoyer and CJ took far more punishment than JG--proportionately--because they did not release their passes as quickly. That is NOT evidence that JG was "obviously" taking alot of "devastating" late hits consistently.

to the contrary, one could argue that it is evidence that JG did NOT get hit that much in comparison.

the interior o-line needed to be addressed--based on their performance in the first 9 games. but the argument that the interior o-line needed to be addressed because JG "obviously" took too many devastating late hits is specious and unsupported--or "flat wrong" as steve young pointed out above

Thank you