49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
So scheme has no bearing on those top O line's? Just the 49ers? Either O line tiers directly relate to winning and losing or your point is invalid.

Just an FYI since what he said was not accurate, tier 3 is actually Solid category. Only reason I know that is because before the free content cut off you could see the 3rd tier description, hard to see all the tiers and breakdowns when you only read the 1st few freebies. Not exactly the best way to cite source content

I honestly just ignore the whole tier thing anyway. He also likes to use that "micro stat" term in order to make it seem like the stats (results) are meaningless and all that matters are rankings from 1 source where he won't even pay for the subscription. Some very disengenuous stuff if you ask me.

I was trying to catch him in his bs when he brought up scheme and other factors as a reason for such similar results even though the eagles o line and 49ers o line are apparently so far apart talentwise. The truth is, the eagles double team pass rushers, chip edge rushers, run playaction, screens and run RPO's in order to slow down pass rushes just like every other NFL offensive system. If the eagles o line being as great as he claims they are plus using all those scheme's and factor benefits that the 49ers use as well, why are the results so similar?

I would argue that the 49ers O line has faced slightly tougher pass rushes than the eagles. 49ers have faced the 7th, 18th, 14th, 29th, 3rd, 1st, 31st 6th and 28th ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 15th ranked overall. The eagles have faced the 30th, 31st, 19th, 24th, 18th, 5th, 8th, 24th and 3rd ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 18th ranked overall. So the 49ers have faced better pass rushes overall and have given up less sacks with a lower sack%.

We keep beating on the O line and there's no doubt it would be great if it was as good as Detroit's. The Niners have one great O lineman and he'sgetting old. They also have a pro bowl caliber player in nearly every other unit on the team. If they had concentrated on just the O line in order to get top tier guys then they would be weak in other areas.

I've said this before but when you draft late in the round you aren't likely to get the top O linemen. Do the math. Every team has 5 starters and several backups. If you draft later than #20 that's 100 positions that may need filling ahead of your pick. The O line talent coming out of college isn't what it used to be because of the style they play. Many didn't play in a system where they needed to pass block for a pocket QB. Most play in option systems . You really need to project based on size and speed and then hope they learn.

Bottomline is every team is always quick to draft a really good O lineman. By the time you get late in the round there aren't any left so you end up drafting a D player or a skill player because they're better value. The Niners haven't neglected the O line. They just pcik guys in the middle or late rounds because the best guys are gone when they pick.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would argue that the 49ers O line has faced slightly tougher pass rushes than the eagles. 49ers have faced the 7th, 18th, 14th, 29th, 3rd, 1st, 31st 6th and 28th ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 15th ranked overall. The eagles have faced the 30th, 31st, 19th, 24th, 18th, 5th, 8th, 24th and 3rd ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 18th ranked overall. So the 49ers have faced better pass rushes overall and have given up less sacks with a lower sack%.

So you're pivoting to ranks?

Let me ask you one simple question.

Do you think this OL is good enough to win a Superbowl as it's constructed right now (including a healthy Banks)?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would argue that the 49ers O line has faced slightly tougher pass rushes than the eagles. 49ers have faced the 7th, 18th, 14th, 29th, 3rd, 1st, 31st 6th and 28th ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 15th ranked overall. The eagles have faced the 30th, 31st, 19th, 24th, 18th, 5th, 8th, 24th and 3rd ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 18th ranked overall. So the 49ers have faced better pass rushes overall and have given up less sacks with a lower sack%.

So you're pivoting to ranks?

Let me ask you one simple question.

Do you think this OL is good enough to win a Superbowl as it's constructed right now (including a healthy Banks)?

I am not the one who favors rankings heavily over results. I merely used rankings to make a point about 49ers pass pro vs eagles pass pro. Results still reign supreme in my book.

Yes. I do believe we have a good enough team, which includes the O line, to win the SB this season.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would argue that the 49ers O line has faced slightly tougher pass rushes than the eagles. 49ers have faced the 7th, 18th, 14th, 29th, 3rd, 1st, 31st 6th and 28th ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 15th ranked overall. The eagles have faced the 30th, 31st, 19th, 24th, 18th, 5th, 8th, 24th and 3rd ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 18th ranked overall. So the 49ers have faced better pass rushes overall and have given up less sacks with a lower sack%.

So you're pivoting to ranks?

Let me ask you one simple question.

Do you think this OL is good enough to win a Superbowl as it's constructed right now (including a healthy Banks)?

I am not the one who favors rankings heavily over results. I merely used rankings to make a point about 49ers pass pro vs eagles pass pro. Results still reign supreme in my book.

Yes. I do believe we have a good enough team, which includes the O line, to win the SB this season.

Results should be the #1 factor, it should not be based on popularity and talent ranks before the season starts.

The reason i brought this up is that Philly is struggling and Dertoit got their ass whooped against a good DL in real results on the field

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Results should be the #1 factor, it should not be based on popularity and talent ranks before the season starts.

The reason i brought this up is that Philly is struggling and Dertoit got their ass whooped against a good DL in real results on the field

what, in a game? then you got em putting 41 on LAC
we can beat the brakes off DAL one game and lose to PJ Walker the next, such is the way, of the NFL

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
again that is opinions and rankings, which don't tell the entire story. less the a % point can seperate 10 teams in certain categories.

data/Film... if you want to go by pressure, Brock had the most time to throw this past weekend (Yac stats). Brock likes to go deep and holds it a little longer. Holding the ball longer is going to get pressure. it doesn't mean brock was running for his life on every play or the game would have a different outcome.

it's cool if you don't know what separates them from us and go by what the media says. This is the reason why i brought this up to get some real data.. not rankings or media popularity

So you're saying stats and a player winning or losing at their position is an opinion? There's plenty of film showing what I'm saying. People aren't making up data/stats to make you mad lol. Pretending PBWR/RBWR and the multiple data points used when discussing OL as make believe because you don't like the results is full homer mode.

If you truthfully believe our OL is on the same page as Philly…then I can't take you serious in discussions like these.

The person who decides that player is winning or losing is an opinion. it's not AI looking at the match up and we know PFF or any type of individual metrics is flawed

It's not homer, i'ts actually seeing what happening on the field.

Philly's OL has done worse against lesser opponents than we have. Hurts has been hit more, sacked more, thrown more INTs, rushed less, Pass less

but if you want to crown them, crown them

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I would argue that the 49ers O line has faced slightly tougher pass rushes than the eagles. 49ers have faced the 7th, 18th, 14th, 29th, 3rd, 1st, 31st 6th and 28th ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 15th ranked overall. The eagles have faced the 30th, 31st, 19th, 24th, 18th, 5th, 8th, 24th and 3rd ranked pass rushes. That averages out to 18th ranked overall. So the 49ers have faced better pass rushes overall and have given up less sacks with a lower sack%.

So you're pivoting to ranks?

Let me ask you one simple question.

Do you think this OL is good enough to win a Superbowl as it's constructed right now (including a healthy Banks)?

I am not the one who favors rankings heavily over results. I merely used rankings to make a point about 49ers pass pro vs eagles pass pro. Results still reign supreme in my book.

Yes. I do believe we have a good enough team, which includes the O line, to win the SB this season.

Great! That was kind of obvious when you were comparing SF's OL to Philly's but it's good to hear.

And FWIW, I hope you're right.

I absolutely do not think it's good enough (OL + Secondary) but keep posting and giving us hope.

Id argue Hurts is a 6th lineman. Dude has tree trunks for legs and is why their 4 and shorts are gimmes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
again that is opinions and rankings, which don't tell the entire story. less the a % point can seperate 10 teams in certain categories.

data/Film... if you want to go by pressure, Brock had the most time to throw this past weekend (Yac stats). Brock likes to go deep and holds it a little longer. Holding the ball longer is going to get pressure. it doesn't mean brock was running for his life on every play or the game would have a different outcome.

it's cool if you don't know what separates them from us and go by what the media says. This is the reason why i brought this up to get some real data.. not rankings or media popularity

So you're saying stats and a player winning or losing at their position is an opinion? There's plenty of film showing what I'm saying. People aren't making up data/stats to make you mad lol. Pretending PBWR/RBWR and the multiple data points used when discussing OL as make believe because you don't like the results is full homer mode.

If you truthfully believe our OL is on the same page as Philly…then I can't take you serious in discussions like these.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Id argue Hurts is a 6th lineman. Dude has tree trunks for legs and is why their 4 and shorts are gimmes.

yeah he's a unique player, and ideally suited for that play

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Results should be the #1 factor....

If this were the case, the FailFive would be subscribing to the tier 1 SME's, huh? Nope.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Results should be the #1 factor, it should not be based on popularity and talent ranks before the season starts.

The reason i brought this up is that Philly is struggling and Dertoit got their ass whooped against a good DL in real results on the field

what, in a game? then you got em putting 41 on LAC
we can beat the brakes off DAL one game and lose to PJ Walker the next, such is the way, of the NFL

LAC? will they even make the playoffs ?

PJ walker had the best DL and it showed. I would like to see Detroit vs Cleve DL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
LAC? will they even make the playoffs ?

PJ walker had the best DL and it showed. I would like to see Detroit vs Cleve DL

and there it is folks, the first recorded mention of anyone wishing to see Browns v Lions, in NFL history
what a time, to be alive