49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Are any of our QB's even asked to read defenses? "Just hit the primary. I'll scheme him open." ~ Kyle

LOL

Without question they do...Jimmy audibled multiple times during the SB.

They can and have changed protections. A lot of s**t happens after the QB head sets are turned off.

From pass to run, run to pass, from 1 pass play to another, from one run play to another, etc.? I thought the C called the PP sets based on the audible?

QB can absolutely change protection calls....he can move a RB to help PP. He can move a TE to help chip a Blitzer. He can change a pass play to help with PP. He can point out to the center where he sees pressure coming from etc... I mean that's in part why they do hard counts, so they can see if someone is blitzing then adjusting.

"A former NFL offensive lineman explains why pass protection is also the quarterback's job"

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/11/8/20954689/nfl-offensive-line-pass-protection-breakdown-mitchell-trubisky-bears

You're probably right. I just remember Rodgers being pissed off at first because so much was taken out of his control. I was wondering how Kyle manages it here in the same system...couldn't remember honestly.

Did you read that article? It's a perfect explanation on how important the QBs job is with PP and how PP works overall.

Great breakdown from Schwartz. We need better talent on the OL. We need to develop guys no doubt...we need better QB play overall as well.

I did and I think that's pretty standard. But does Kyle follow suit with his system?

Originally posted by NCommand:

I did and I think that's pretty standard. But does Kyle follow suit with his system?

Absolutely...it's not even following suit it's how OL and QB interact on a football field.

It's not some secret mystery with Kyle, there's decades worth of film on the scheme he runs. There's nuances a QB needs to know to help PP....Geoff schwartz lays it all out perfectly.

It's one thing to call our McG for just getting pancaked on a pass-pro set, totally get that. Tossing out "QB hits" and pressure rates doesn't show the whole picture. Especially with blitzes.

OL needs to improve. I'm with ya there...better QB play will improve everything including pass-pro a s**t ton.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Dude, ALL THE HITS on our QB's is because our QB's suck.. didn't you know that? Has nothing to do with the O-lineman.. I mean all teams O-Lines suck & they all suck coming out of college so definitely don't draft any O-lineman.
We just need a "good" QB. Dump what we have and get a rookie QB in there that can toss these 50-60 yard WOW plays so when we lose, we can at least still be entertained.

NCommand, Get with the program!

LMAO. There's probably some 'balance' in there somewhere but this extreme made me

Bad QB play sure as s**t doesn't help.

You got teams blitzing all day and our QBs aren't adjusting the protection overall...Where's the hard count to see where the blitzes are coming from? Our QBs are allowed to audible.

OL needs to play better....QB play needs to improve f**k ton.

Our Qbs just tend to stand there looking lost and confused lol

Originally posted by NYniner85:
QB can absolutely change protection calls....he can move a RB to help PP. He can move a TE to help chip a Blitzer. He can change a pass play to help with PP. He can point out to the center where he sees pressure coming from etc... I mean that's in part why they do hard counts, so they can see if someone is blitzing then adjusting.

"A former NFL offensive lineman explains why pass protection is also the quarterback's job"

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/11/8/20954689/nfl-offensive-line-pass-protection-breakdown-mitchell-trubisky-bears

This is a good example showing why Kyle prioritizes having veteran centers.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I did and I think that's pretty standard. But does Kyle follow suit with his system?

Absolutely...it's not even following suit it's how OL and QB interact on a football field.

It's not some secret mystery with Kyle, there's decades worth of film on the scheme he runs. There's nuances a QB needs to know to help PP....Geoff schwartz lays it all out perfectly.

It's one thing to call our McG for just getting pancaked on a pass-pro set, totally get that. Tossing out "QB hits" and pressure rates doesn't show the whole picture. Especially with blitzes.

OL needs to improve. I'm with ya there...better QB play will improve everything including pass-pro a s**t ton.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you overall. I'm all about the whole unit including the responsibility of the OC and QB.

This was why I asked...this topic may be beyond calling pass protection sets but with so much pre snap motions, I had to ask.

Separate and apart from the question of whether Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers should be talking publicly about his apparent disagreement with the lack of freedom he'll have at the line of scrimmage in the team's new offense [Kyle's offense] is the question of whether he should have more freedom at the line of scrimmage.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/17/how-much-control-over-the-offense-should-aaron-rodgers-have/amp/

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Our Qbs just tend to stand there looking lost and confused lol

Every one. Odd.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Our Qbs just tend to stand there looking lost and confused lol

Every one. Odd.

I personally couldn't see a rookie quarterback function better behind this offensive line than Jimmy.
But the rookie might give some WOW throws to keep certain fans happy..

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I did and I think that's pretty standard. But does Kyle follow suit with his system?

Absolutely...it's not even following suit it's how OL and QB interact on a football field.

It's not some secret mystery with Kyle, there's decades worth of film on the scheme he runs. There's nuances a QB needs to know to help PP....Geoff schwartz lays it all out perfectly.

It's one thing to call our McG for just getting pancaked on a pass-pro set, totally get that. Tossing out "QB hits" and pressure rates doesn't show the whole picture. Especially with blitzes.

OL needs to improve. I'm with ya there...better QB play will improve everything including pass-pro a s**t ton.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you overall. I'm all about the whole unit including the responsibility of the OC and QB.

This was why I asked...this topic may be beyond calling pass protection sets but with so much pre snap motions, I had to ask.

Separate and apart from the question of whether Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers should be talking publicly about his apparent disagreement with the lack of freedom he'll have at the line of scrimmage in the team's new offense [Kyle's offense] is the question of whether he should have more freedom at the line of scrimmage.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/17/how-much-control-over-the-offense-should-aaron-rodgers-have/amp/

I mean that's literally him being able to have a free for all and call whatever play he wants lol. That's basically what he did with McCarthy. Mike owes Rogers a lot.

Every QB has the ability to audible and change protections at the line. Like I said the HC/QB communications get shut off with 15 secs left on the play clock. A lot happens after that 15 secs.

Originally posted by Jeepzilla:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Our Qbs just tend to stand there looking lost and confused lol

Every one. Odd.

I personally couldn't see a rookie quarterback function better behind this offensive line than Jimmy.
But the rookie might give some WOW throws to keep certain fans happy..

That all depends on which one we take. Play-makers tend to make things happen without needing everything around them to be perfect.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
That all depends on which one we take. Play-makers tend to make things happen without needing everything around them to be perfect.

Just look at Russell Wilson. The guy has had an awful O-line in PP his entire career but he keeps producing because he is freaking great.

Our O-line has been garbage this season but that doesn´t excuse the poor play of our QB´s because they have been bad even when the pocket is clean.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
If we were healthy the only position truly hurting would be interior O line. Even then they thought we would at least have our back up center and a lot of us were higher on Brunskill coming off last season. The line needs an overhaul but the idea that it deserved more than one more high quality body on the interior is being a really big goddamn monday morning QB.

I don't think so. If anything I have been saying they need o line help since after the draft, so maybe after the draft Monday morning QB. I was hoping Brunskill was going to play good but he was undrafted and only played guard for 2 or 3 games. Trent Williams is an awesome athlete and I was happy they traded for him, but he had not played in a 1 1/2 years. Plus he has only played 16 game twice. I still happy they have him. Richburg was hurt going into the season. Me, you and a lot of other people knew it and lynch said they had to have Garland because he played so well. He knew right then that Richburg mite not be ready. McGlinchey is having a crappy Year and I do not think that has anything to do with health. Tomlinson is a little over rated but if the rest of the o line was ok and he was the weak link they would be fine. In closing the center has been hurt most of the year and they only had Garland as a backup plan. Bunskill didn't work at Guard and Tomlinson has gotten Jimmy hurt Twice. McGlinchey is looking bad and you think they only need 1 interior o linemen. Anyone that thinks other wise is a goddamn monday morning QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I did and I think that's pretty standard. But does Kyle follow suit with his system?

Absolutely...it's not even following suit it's how OL and QB interact on a football field.

It's not some secret mystery with Kyle, there's decades worth of film on the scheme he runs. There's nuances a QB needs to know to help PP....Geoff schwartz lays it all out perfectly.

It's one thing to call our McG for just getting pancaked on a pass-pro set, totally get that. Tossing out "QB hits" and pressure rates doesn't show the whole picture. Especially with blitzes.

OL needs to improve. I'm with ya there...better QB play will improve everything including pass-pro a s**t ton.

Oh I'm not disagreeing with you overall. I'm all about the whole unit including the responsibility of the OC and QB.

This was why I asked...this topic may be beyond calling pass protection sets but with so much pre snap motions, I had to ask.

Separate and apart from the question of whether Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers should be talking publicly about his apparent disagreement with the lack of freedom he'll have at the line of scrimmage in the team's new offense [Kyle's offense] is the question of whether he should have more freedom at the line of scrimmage.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/06/17/how-much-control-over-the-offense-should-aaron-rodgers-have/amp/

I mean that's literally him being able to have a free for all and call whatever play he wants lol. That's basically what he did with McCarthy. Mike owes Rogers a lot.

Every QB has the ability to audible and change protections at the line. Like I said the HC/QB communications get shut off with 15 secs left on the play clock. A lot happens after that 15 secs.

Agreed.

My deeper question is why would Kyle/Lafleur want that much control? And with that control, because of so much more pre snap motion than anyone else, how much control does Aaron and Garoppolo really have here to change pass protection sets...or do they stick with the calls?

For instance, have we seen Kittle running in motion under 15 seconds, hear an audible by Garoppolo and then he stops and reverts to pass protection?

We've seen Rodgers, Ryan and all 3 of our QB's seem to just be sitting ducks often including Superbowls.

So again, I ask, in OUR system, is there something systematically that constantly puts them in harm's way?

Last week we saw a DB completely take over the game by himself and nothing was done about it pre snap. Why is that? We could all see it coming pre snap.

Is that because of the QB and C? Or is there something else going on under 15 seconds? Meaning there may not be any protection sets calls built in but perhaps the receivers are instead, asked to run option routes or break them off to counter when audibles are made?

[b]

Originally posted by NCommand:

Agreed.

My deeper question is why would Kyle/Lafleur want that much control? And with that control, because of so much more pre snap motion than anyone else, how much control does Aaron and Garoppolo really have here to change pass protection sets...or do they stick with the calls?

For instance, have we seen Kittle running in motion under 15 seconds, hear an audible by Garoppolo and then he stops and reverts to pass protection?

We've seen Rodgers, Ryan and all 3 of our QB's seem to just be sitting ducks often including Superbowls.

So again, I ask, in OUR system, is there something systematically that constantly puts them in harm's way?

Last week we saw a DB completely take over the game by himself and nothing was done about it pre snap. Why is that? We could all see it coming pre snap.

Is that because of the QB and C? Or is there something else going on under 15 seconds? Meaning there may not be any protection sets calls built in but perhaps the receivers are instead, asked to run option routes or break them off to counter when audibles are made?

This is why I believe they eventually got on board with the RG3 experiment. Just wasn't the right type of pocket presence.

I also think part of it is QBs always trying to hit the homerun instead of taking the walk or hitting a sharp single. So they hold and hold and hold until eventually the rush collapses.

We've seen that with every QB that has played for us since 2017.

One of the forgotten staples of the offense is to take what you're given until they cheat then make them pay.

The line cannot sustain 5 second pockets play after play...just doesn't happen. So the QBs have got to start helping.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed.

My deeper question is why would Kyle/Lafleur want that much control? And with that control, because of so much more snap motion than anyone else, how much control does Aaron and Garoppolo really have here to change pass protection sets...or do they stick with the calls?

For instance, have we seen Kittle running in motion under 15 seconds, hear an audible by Garoppolo and then he stops and reverts to pass protection?

We've seen Rodgers, Ryan and all 3 of our QB's seem to just be sitting ducks often including Superbowls.

So again, I ask, in OUR system, is there something systematically that constantly puts them in harm's way?

Last week we saw a DB completely take over the game by himself and nothing was done about it pre snap. Why is that? We could all see it coming pre snap.

Is that because of the QB and C? Or is there something else going on under 15 seconds? Meaning there may not be any protection sets but perhaps the receivers are instead, asked to run option routes or break them off to counter?

Why are you thinking they want more control than any other HC? Rogers was basically the OC in GB for like 10 yrs lol. Yeah he was a little upset that he couldn't just run the offense. Motion helps determine coverage....go look at the teams that use some sort of motion pre-snaps and how they rank out offensively. It's free so why not use it?

Absolutely we've seen Kittle motion and move to where JG wants him to be for PP, if that's where he thinks he should be. That's all part of diagnosing the defense before they hike the ball. What do you think Jimmy has one play call at the LOS and is forced to run it? Nah dude. There's protection changes/audibles/hot routes just like any offense.

again go read the article I posted...that's with Nagy's offense which is also a form of the WCO (which you say is what we run).

Ryan/Rogers are MVP QBs. They understand defenses and where the ball needs to go. They use anticipation...We don't have that overall at QB. Same s**t with Brady. They could be DCs for god sakes lol. I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to sitting ducks with Rogers/Ryan?

Do you think the DB would do that all game vs Ryan/Rogers/Brady etc? Nope and that's regardless of who's calling the plays. Jet missed some blitz pickups and of course the OL didn't play well. I don't think we have to debate on that. QB play would improve PP without question. Being able to run the ball improves PP overall. Didn't have either on Sunday.

End of the days the QB NEEDS to be better...We're playing with a backup there and our 4th string backup at center, I'm sure that plays a MASSIVE part in that NOLA game. Jimmy and Richburg wouldn't have let that happen.