Oakland Raiders coaches Film analysis

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a terrific article and really captures how I've felt for a couple years now. I think it was reinforced even more on a Sunday/Monday night game when Chucky (a WCO expert) was noting all the different schemes (WCO, pro-style, RO, etc.), formations (and how WE ran them), personnel shifts, etc. we were running and he summed it up by saying, "I don't know WHAT the heck this offense is." It just got me focused more on how important offensive philosophy, scheme, game planning, etc. can lead to production or non-production on the field. Then we started watching defenses adjust. It took a bit to sift through the smoke-and-mirrors but you could see it more and more as DC's were catching on to our tendencies (e.g. follow the move-man on running plays and you can stuff the run, etc.; key in on primary reads, etc.). At the end of the day, I think you are witnessing an offense that has no real identity and has completely been figured out. As much as I love Harbaugh, IMHO, he will never succeed any further than this in the NFL...with his offensive system. And sadly, that means it's probably time to move on...which just sucks. But I feel even worse for guys like Gore, J.Smith, etc.

(to the bolded) What's funny is I think that's what HaRo is going for. They want DCs to look at the 49ers' film and say "hmm what do we gameplan for?" In the end, if the playcalls/design aren't optimal and/or the execution isn't crisp, it doesn't matter what kind of offensive scheme is used - it's gonna fail.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by thl408:
3Q 2nd & Goal

49ers: Slant-flat to Kap's right.
OAK: cover 2 zone

Incomplete.

This play actually got 3 players open and guess which player was the toughest throw? Yup, Boldin. For Kap to make that throw, it would have to have been amazingly perfect. But, he missed two wide open players in VD and Gore. On 2nd and goal too!

How about VD. He was open but could have been more open if he stops and doesn't run right into the DB and cover himself.

See, how much better do you all want Roman to design these plays when Kap is completely ignoring the easier throws?

Gore was open, and he had a blocker coming across to go to the endzone...who is that VD? That's a sure TD. Two Niners against 1 Raider DB

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a terrific article and really captures how I've felt for a couple years now. I think it was reinforced even more on a Sunday/Monday night game when Chucky (a WCO expert) was noting all the different schemes (WCO, pro-style, RO, etc.), formations (and how WE ran them), personnel shifts, etc. we were running and he summed it up by saying, "I don't know WHAT the heck this offense is." It just got me focused more on how important offensive philosophy, scheme, game planning, etc. can lead to production or non-production on the field. Then we started watching defenses adjust. It took a bit to sift through the smoke-and-mirrors but you could see it more and more as DC's were catching on to our tendencies (e.g. follow the move-man on running plays and you can stuff the run, etc.; key in on primary reads, etc.). At the end of the day, I think you are witnessing an offense that has no real identity and has completely been figured out. As much as I love Harbaugh, IMHO, he will never succeed any further than this in the NFL...with his offensive system. And sadly, that means it's probably time to move on...which just sucks. But I feel even worse for guys like Gore, J.Smith, etc.

(to the bolded) What's funny is I think that's what HaRo is going for. They want DCs to look at the 49ers' film and say "hmm what do we gameplan for?" In the end, if the playcalls/design aren't optimal and/or the execution isn't crisp, it doesn't matter what kind of offensive scheme is used - it's gonna fail.

Exactly...all the pre-snap shifts, motions, wrinkles in the run game I.e. whams, zone, power, etc.), personnel substitutions, looks (Miller split out), etc...all designed with the idea to confuse DC's and be able to basically, install a new offense each week or switch major gears, in-game...on a dime. Versatility.

However, now that the mirrors have been taken away and the smoke has cleared for DC's, this offensive philosophy is actually working against us now as what used to work (like Miller alluded too), is no longer working and in fact, allowing DC's to keen in on our tendencies, hence the perpetual 2nd and 3rd-and-longs.

All this has really taugh me how important a system is and how critical it is to get a HC/OC that can implement (and understands the importantce of) "rhythm" esp. for a young, learning and developing QB (and young cast around him). Plays are still there to be made regardless (execution) but no doubt, it's so important to increase higher % plays.

This thread depressed me, seeing the missed opportunities.

Originally posted by thl408:

(to the bolded) What's funny is I think that's what HaRo is going for. They want DCs to look at the 49ers' film and say "hmm what do we gameplan for?" In the end, if the playcalls/design aren't optimal and/or the execution isn't crisp, it doesn't matter what kind of offensive scheme is used - it's gonna fail.

What sucks is we will never actually know what his offense could have looked like with a healthy OL. There have been stretches (granted few and far between) where the offense had looked very nice at both passing out of spread (first half of zona game) and pounding the ball. It just illustrates how important continuty is within that unit.

I still believe with full health this offense could have been a 230 pass 140 rush type of unit and that probably would have resulted in 25-27 ppg. We will know and it looks like Harbs is out the door.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a terrific article and really captures how I've felt for a couple years now. I think it was reinforced even more on a Sunday/Monday night game when Chucky (a WCO expert) was noting all the different schemes (WCO, pro-style, RO, etc.), formations (and how WE ran them), personnel shifts, etc. we were running and he summed it up by saying, "I don't know WHAT the heck this offense is." It just got me focused more on how important offensive philosophy, scheme, game planning, etc. can lead to production or non-production on the field. Then we started watching defenses adjust. It took a bit to sift through the smoke-and-mirrors but you could see it more and more as DC's were catching on to our tendencies (e.g. follow the move-man on running plays and you can stuff the run, etc.; key in on primary reads, etc.). At the end of the day, I think you are witnessing an offense that has no real identity and has completely been figured out. As much as I love Harbaugh, IMHO, he will never succeed any further than this in the NFL...with his offensive system. And sadly, that means it's probably time to move on...which just sucks. But I feel even worse for guys like Gore, J.Smith, etc.

(to the bolded) What's funny is I think that's what HaRo is going for. They want DCs to look at the 49ers' film and say "hmm what do we gameplan for?" In the end, if the playcalls/design aren't optimal and/or the execution isn't crisp, it doesn't matter what kind of offensive scheme is used - it's gonna fail.

Exactly...all the pre-snap shifts, motions, wrinkles in the run game I.e. whams, zone, power, etc.), personnel substitutions, looks (Miller split out), etc...all designed with the idea to confuse DC's and be able to basically, install a new offense each week or switch major gears, in-game...on a dime. Versatility.

However, now that the mirrors have been taken away and the smoke has cleared for DC's, this offensive philosophy is actually working against us now as what used to work (like Miller alluded too), is no longer working and in fact, allowing DC's to keen in on our tendencies, hence the perpetual 2nd and 3rd-and-longs.

All this has really taugh me how important a system is and how critical it is to get a HC/OC that can implement (and understands the importantce of) "rhythm" esp. for a young, learning and developing QB (and young cast around him). Plays are still there to be made regardless (execution) but no doubt, it's so important to increase higher % plays.

I don't buy it. It was said about Bilachick that he would possibly change the entire game plan on a Thursday and do something completely different. The fact is that there are players getting open on the plays that are called. Film also shows that Kap, more times than not, is misreading between Covers 3/4 and Cover 2.

Almost any OC looks bad when the QB is not able to function well from the pocket. The solution to our passing game is simple, we have a QB that never learned how to be a pocket QB trying to learn how to be a pocket QB. Defenses know this and are trying to disguise as much coverage as possible and it is working. It is no different than anyone learning anything new and not getting it right away and that is all other things are out of your vision and all you are trying to do is learn the most basic stuff of the new stuff.

This offense will NEVER run smooth until the QB can decipher defenses and think like this: (using play as example above)

• Check Boldin will not be open against this defense.
• If FS does this, then I need to quickly move to Frank in the flat
• If Boldin's DB switches to Frank then I have Vernon on the out

Ball is snapped and the QB looks at Boldin knowing he's not going to be open but ONLY to hold the defense but keeps his eyes on that DB to see if the DB holds. DB takes one step with Boldin and QB quickly rifles it to Gore without really looking...basically looking at Gore just as his arm is going forward.

The problem is simple and it is that we have a QB that is learning.

Kap gets knocked off his spot on every play though. Sure there are times he runs out when he doesn't need to but are you guys watching the s**tty pockets he's throwing from? Right tackle gets beat every play and he rarely ever has room to climb the pocket because our guards and center suck balls. Put some film up of atlanta. Their line is terrible yet ryan has more time to throw. Look at green bay. Not a good line but gay rod has more time than kap. Seattle's line is garbage, again more time than kap. Kap has enough problems as it is but it's tough to ask him to improve on the fly when he's constantly running for his life.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by thl408:
3Q 2nd & Goal

49ers: Slant-flat to Kap's right.
OAK: cover 2 zone

Incomplete.

This play actually got 3 players open and guess which player was the toughest throw? Yup, Boldin. For Kap to make that throw, it would have to have been amazingly perfect. But, he missed two wide open players in VD and Gore. On 2nd and goal too!

How about VD. He was open but could have been more open if he stops and doesn't run right into the DB and cover himself.

See, how much better do you all want Roman to design these plays when Kap is completely ignoring the easier throws?

Gore was open, and he had a blocker coming across to go to the endzone...who is that VD? That's a sure TD. Two Niners against 1 Raider DB

If he just takes what the D gives him his job would be soooo much easier.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by thl408:
3Q 2nd & Goal

49ers: Slant-flat to Kap's right.
OAK: cover 2 zone

Incomplete.

This play actually got 3 players open and guess which player was the toughest throw? Yup, Boldin. For Kap to make that throw, it would have to have been amazingly perfect. But, he missed two wide open players in VD and Gore. On 2nd and goal too!

How about VD. He was open but could have been more open if he stops and doesn't run right into the DB and cover himself.

See, how much better do you all want Roman to design these plays when Kap is completely ignoring the easier throws?

Gore was open, and he had a blocker coming across to go to the endzone...who is that VD? That's a sure TD. Two Niners against 1 Raider DB

If he just takes what the D gives him his job would be soooo much easier.

So f*****ing frustrating. He had about 3 guys open on that one.

Kap is flat out HORRIBLE.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
This is a terrific article and really captures how I've felt for a couple years now. I think it was reinforced even more on a Sunday/Monday night game when Chucky (a WCO expert) was noting all the different schemes (WCO, pro-style, RO, etc.), formations (and how WE ran them), personnel shifts, etc. we were running and he summed it up by saying, "I don't know WHAT the heck this offense is." It just got me focused more on how important offensive philosophy, scheme, game planning, etc. can lead to production or non-production on the field. Then we started watching defenses adjust. It took a bit to sift through the smoke-and-mirrors but you could see it more and more as DC's were catching on to our tendencies (e.g. follow the move-man on running plays and you can stuff the run, etc.; key in on primary reads, etc.). At the end of the day, I think you are witnessing an offense that has no real identity and has completely been figured out. As much as I love Harbaugh, IMHO, he will never succeed any further than this in the NFL...with his offensive system. And sadly, that means it's probably time to move on...which just sucks. But I feel even worse for guys like Gore, J.Smith, etc.

(to the bolded) What's funny is I think that's what HaRo is going for. They want DCs to look at the 49ers' film and say "hmm what do we gameplan for?" In the end, if the playcalls/design aren't optimal and/or the execution isn't crisp, it doesn't matter what kind of offensive scheme is used - it's gonna fail.

Exactly...all the pre-snap shifts, motions, wrinkles in the run game I.e. whams, zone, power, etc.), personnel substitutions, looks (Miller split out), etc...all designed with the idea to confuse DC's and be able to basically, install a new offense each week or switch major gears, in-game...on a dime. Versatility.

However, now that the mirrors have been taken away and the smoke has cleared for DC's, this offensive philosophy is actually working against us now as what used to work (like Miller alluded too), is no longer working and in fact, allowing DC's to keen in on our tendencies, hence the perpetual 2nd and 3rd-and-longs.

All this has really taugh me how important a system is and how critical it is to get a HC/OC that can implement (and understands the importantce of) "rhythm" esp. for a young, learning and developing QB (and young cast around him). Plays are still there to be made regardless (execution) but no doubt, it's so important to increase higher % plays.

I don't buy it. It was said about Bilachick that he would possibly change the entire game plan on a Thursday and do something completely different. The fact is that there are players getting open on the plays that are called. Film also shows that Kap, more times than not, is misreading between Covers 3/4 and Cover 2.

Almost any OC looks bad when the QB is not able to function well from the pocket. The solution to our passing game is simple, we have a QB that never learned how to be a pocket QB trying to learn how to be a pocket QB. Defenses know this and are trying to disguise as much coverage as possible and it is working. It is no different than anyone learning anything new and not getting it right away and that is all other things are out of your vision and all you are trying to do is learn the most basic stuff of the new stuff.

This offense will NEVER run smooth until the QB can decipher defenses and think like this: (using play as example above)

• Check Boldin will not be open against this defense.
• If FS does this, then I need to quickly move to Frank in the flat
• If Boldin's DB switches to Frank then I have Vernon on the out

Ball is snapped and the QB looks at Boldin knowing he's not going to be open but ONLY to hold the defense but keeps his eyes on that DB to see if the DB holds. DB takes one step with Boldin and QB quickly rifles it to Gore without really looking...basically looking at Gore just as his arm is going forward.

The problem is simple and it is that we have a QB that is learning.

I agree with your take JoeCool that QB play has a role in the anemic offense, but the main aspect that comes through in these play cut ups are the player fails. QB not finding the open WR, Oline fails, WR drops, penalties. And although the QB is the trigger man for any offense, a young QB, especially one that is struggling, should/could be guided a bit more than what the 49er coaches are doing.

We've all had our takes on the struggles of the offense and it seems there are three main factors that play a role in its mediocrity: QB, Oline, coaching. IMO, anyone that acknowledges all three of these factors is correct no matter which gets the majority of the blame and which gets the least of the blame. There is strong evidence to support each of the three arguments (mainly coaching vs mainly QB vs mainly OL) . The only incorrect assessment, imo, is to say that it is ALL on a specific factor. I wish it was that simple.

During week 9 (I think) there was some active thread asking what the problem with the offense was. I broke it down as:
50% Oline
20% playcalling/design
20% Kap
10% WR fails/penalties

I thought that with such bad Oline play, it didn't allow the coaches to call what they really wanted, it didn't allow Kap to have sufficient time to make reads, and it didn't open up rushing lanes for Gore/Hyde. 'It starts up front' and with that the Oline was my main culprit.
......
After seeing the Oline improve a bit in pass protection since then, and Kap regress, I'd like to revise that as:
35% Oline - They have improved since the season started in pass pro, but barely sufficient. Run blocking is still weak compared to past seasons.
30% Kap - I do think he showed improvement to start the season. He's regressed since then.
30% playcalling/design - not helping Kap/offense by forcing him to look shorter range to increase positive pass plays and minimize negative plays. Dialing up deep shots with no speed threat.
5% WR fails/penalties - drops have decreased

I know this sounds a bit like a cop out of a breakdown, but I truly feel that these factors have played a near equal share throughout this season with each drive highlighting one factor more than the other. As always, IMObservation.

If anyone would like to chime in, I'm really interested in how you break down the offensive failure. Keep in mind that there are also many aspects to coaching. There is position coaching, play calling (adjustments, calling plays that allow players to get into the flow), play design (does the offensive play called properly combat the defensive coverage called while taking into account player skillset).

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Gore was open, and he had a blocker coming across to go to the endzone...who is that VD? That's a sure TD. Two Niners against 1 Raider DB

Yeah, it would have been nice if that was the primary read esp. on 2nd down!

Originally posted by thl408:
I agree with your take JoeCool that QB play has a role in the anemic offense, but the main aspect that comes through in these play cut ups are the player fails. QB not finding the open WR, Oline fails, WR drops, penalties. And although the QB is the trigger man for any offense, a young QB, especially one that is struggling, should/could be guided a bit more than what the 49er coaches are doing.

We've all had our takes on the struggles of the offense and it seems there are three main factors that play a role in its mediocrity: QB, Oline, coaching. IMO, anyone that acknowledges all three of these factors is correct no matter which gets the majority of the blame and which gets the least of the blame. There is strong evidence to support each of the three arguments (mainly coaching vs mainly QB vs mainly OL) . The only incorrect assessment, imo, is to say that it is ALL on a specific factor. I wish it was that simple.

During week 9 (I think) there was some active thread asking what the problem with the offense was. I broke it down as:
50% Oline
20% playcalling/design
20% Kap
10% WR fails/penalties

I thought that with such bad Oline play, it didn't allow the coaches to call what they really wanted, it didn't allow Kap to have sufficient time to make reads, and it didn't open up rushing lanes for Gore/Hyde. 'It starts up front' and with that the Oline was my main culprit.
......
After seeing the Oline improve a bit in pass protection since then, and Kap regress, I'd like to revise that as:
35% Oline - They have improved since the season started in pass pro, but barely sufficient. Run blocking is still weak compared to past seasons.
30% Kap - I do think he showed improvement to start the season. He's regressed since then.
30% playcalling/design - not helping Kap/offense by forcing him to look shorter range to increase positive pass plays and minimize negative plays. Dialing up deep shots with no speed threat.
5% WR fails/penalties - drops have decreased

I know this sounds a bit like a cop out of a breakdown, but I truly feel that these factors have played a near equal share throughout this season with each drive highlighting one factor more than the other. As always, IMObservation.

If anyone would like to chime in, I'm really interested in how you break down the offensive failure. Keep in mind that there are also many aspects to coaching. There is position coaching, play calling (adjustments, calling plays that allow players to get into the flow), play design (does the offensive play called properly combat the defensive coverage called while taking into account player skillset).

This is a terrific post and not just b/c I absolutely agree with it. And his last paragraph really critical...coaching, from offensive philosophy, game planning to player development, etc...it's the glue that holds everything together. It will always start and end with coaching IMHO no matter what happens in between (i.e. the results), fair or not. Once aspect that rarely gets included in this is "self coaching." Players that seek our veterans to learn the way, spending extra time on their own in the film room, studying, etc. I include that as well in the "coaching" perspective.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
I agree with your take JoeCool that QB play has a role in the anemic offense, but the main aspect that comes through in these play cut ups are the player fails. QB not finding the open WR, Oline fails, WR drops, penalties. And although the QB is the trigger man for any offense, a young QB, especially one that is struggling, should/could be guided a bit more than what the 49er coaches are doing.

We've all had our takes on the struggles of the offense and it seems there are three main factors that play a role in its mediocrity: QB, Oline, coaching. IMO, anyone that acknowledges all three of these factors is correct no matter which gets the majority of the blame and which gets the least of the blame. There is strong evidence to support each of the three arguments (mainly coaching vs mainly QB vs mainly OL) . The only incorrect assessment, imo, is to say that it is ALL on a specific factor. I wish it was that simple.

During week 9 (I think) there was some active thread asking what the problem with the offense was. I broke it down as:
50% Oline
20% playcalling/design
20% Kap
10% WR fails/penalties

I thought that with such bad Oline play, it didn't allow the coaches to call what they really wanted, it didn't allow Kap to have sufficient time to make reads, and it didn't open up rushing lanes for Gore/Hyde. 'It starts up front' and with that the Oline was my main culprit.
......
After seeing the Oline improve a bit in pass protection since then, and Kap regress, I'd like to revise that as:
35% Oline - They have improved since the season started in pass pro, but barely sufficient. Run blocking is still weak compared to past seasons.
30% Kap - I do think he showed improvement to start the season. He's regressed since then.
30% playcalling/design - not helping Kap/offense by forcing him to look shorter range to increase positive pass plays and minimize negative plays. Dialing up deep shots with no speed threat.
5% WR fails/penalties - drops have decreased

I know this sounds a bit like a cop out of a breakdown, but I truly feel that these factors have played a near equal share throughout this season with each drive highlighting one factor more than the other. As always, IMObservation.

If anyone would like to chime in, I'm really interested in how you break down the offensive failure. Keep in mind that there are also many aspects to coaching. There is position coaching, play calling (adjustments, calling plays that allow players to get into the flow), play design (does the offensive play called properly combat the defensive coverage called while taking into account player skillset).

This is a terrific post and not just b/c I absolutely agree with it. And his last paragraph really critical...coaching, from offensive philosophy, game planning to player development, etc...it's the glue that holds everything together. It will always start and end with coaching IMHO no matter what happens in between (i.e. the results), fair or not. Once aspect that rarely gets included in this is "self coaching." Players that seek our veterans to learn the way, spending extra time on their own in the film room, studying, etc. I include that as well in the "coaching" perspective.

I don't know. When the first play of the game is a designed checkdown to the RB in the flat and the QB doesn't make that throw and goes for the bigger throw...

...that sways those percentages heavier in the QB direction. Now take into account the QB's habit of completely over looking other WIDE open passes to the flat along with staring down deeper receivers and it weighs heavier on the QB. Finally take into account past history of the QB force-feeding low percentage plays, fade routes to Crabtree...

Other than not calling enough runs through Gore and Hyde, I have been just fine with the pass designs.

I think Kap is going to be a very good one but I completely understand that he will be taking a few steps back in the journey to becoming a pocket passer.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't know. When the first play of the game is a designed checkdown to the RB in the flat and the QB doesn't make that throw and goes for the bigger throw...

...that sways those percentages heavier in the QB direction. Now take into account the QB's habit of completely over looking other WIDE open passes to the flat along with staring down deeper receivers and it weighs heavier on the QB. Finally take into account past history of the QB force-feeding low percentage plays, fade routes to Crabtree...

Other than not calling enough runs through Gore and Hyde, I have been just fine with the pass designs.

I think Kap is going to be a very good one but I completely understand that he will be taking a few steps back in the journey to becoming a pocket passer.

I think this is where the Anti-CK (not you JC) crowd makes a lot of assumptions. It was a spot play which usually means (typically) the deeper corner routes is the primary read, then Boldin and Miller may be the third. We don't know how CK is coached WITHIN the play designs. You can have 3 different teams run a WCO design and all 3 coach within it differently. For instance, if Alex was here, Miller may be the primary read, then Boldin and finally VD (deeper corner route) would be last. With CK, maybe it's just the opposite. In fact, maybe it's VD and then if covered up, CK knows he's got 1on1 on the non-concept side with Crabtree which s/b a win there. We just don't know. Given that aside from a drag route and an occasional swing pass, the short (Miller) route is rarely called as the primary route over the past 4 years. So based on that, we can "assume" Miller ain't the man here WHEN CK is looking deeper to his primary read.