Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by thl408:
I would be just fine if all the 49er CBs were able to play like Sherman. Since that can't happen, let's have every DLman play like JJWatt. That might be easier to teach since Tomsula is really good.
Sorry NC, I'm just trying to be funny. What you are describing simply isn't proper press bump and run technique. Looking at the QB isn't just the act of glancing at him, it's actually watching him and seeing when the QB opens up his shoulders to get into his throwing motion. You can't do that when playing tight man coverage or press bump and run.
Sorry NC, but I agree here. Not sure what your perception of press man is, but I feel like you're really describing what we should/can do from an unrealistic perspective. Like you said thl408, we played poker with a low stack of chips. Perfect analogy. I feel like our lack of personnel limited our play-calling on defense and package groupings. (especially in the 2nd half). Would you agree th? 3 available corners, no Willis, ouch.....
See above...I was describing a technique of jam press.
Okay, so what type of man coverage would you want to see specifically from our DB's?
Man free (single high S with Reid) and Combo man on Thomas mixed in with our off coverage schemes. With 4 and 5 WR's I wouldn't go straight man. This is where their talent would have an edge on our last DB or two.
what kind of man? bump and run? close tight nit press? you listed some college stuff so what about that
I just listed the two types of man but as to the type of technique we'd use? Pure physical jam press as noted above...NOT soft press bump and run.
well if it's physical, jam press man-to-man there's no eyes on the QB at that point. really if Denver goes 4-wide in the 2nd half we're screwed personnel wise. thankfully they didnt need to they were ahead by so much, lol
If my math is right, that's:
5 in coverage. 1 deep safety. Double cover DThomas. 4 man pass rush. Peyton has all day and finds his mismatch.
Could it work? Sure why not, but it requires Manning to be off his game a bit and make some mistakes.
If the jams are effective, add one second+ for the pass rushers. They were getting there around 3.5-4 seconds. Manning was throwing under 3. And just b/c you jam, it doesn't mean the WR automatically "wins" after that. Coverage still is encouraged. LOL.
As to your point though...right after the TO by CK, Manning went right after Cox with Thomas with Bethea over the top. TD! Game over. Now, would that play have been more effective with a hard jam at the LOS allowing Bethea more time to slide over and provide over-the-top help? No jam meant both were in trail-mode for the TD. And personally, I would have used Reid, not Bethea as the single high S.
I think that had the 49ers pressed, Manning immediately starts dialing up pick/rub routes that we see DEN run so often. Then we are here today talking about why the 49ers pressed.
I admire your faith in the players to get the job done, and you have referred to the defense being ranked #2 despite the injuries. However, the defense on the field last night wasn't even the same defense that earned that #2 statistical ranking. They were missing Willis, Cully, and Ward.
My point in getting into all this is that I did not see, and can not think of a better strategy that Fangio could have done that would have resulted in a much better showing. The 49ers were understaffed going against a passing offense that has answers for nearly everything. The 49ers needed an effective 4 man rush in order to succeed last night and they have struggled with that all season.
To add to the convo as well: To truly excel at a physical, jam press, you have to have corners who are going to have length on your receivers so that they'll be able to get their hands on the receiver before the receiver can get his hands on the CB. If the receiver gets his hands on the CB first and your corner has his balance forward to the press, your CB is screwed. He'll easily get shrugged off and then the receiver is free down the field with no true safety help.
The only receiver that we would've had the length advantage with is Welker - who plays off the LOS in the slot, so you can't jam him the same way. Sherman can do what he does cause he's got gorilla length arms -like the Aldon Smith of Corners.
Your best press corners have, historically, been guys with a lot of length. Like Asomagha in his prime. Without length, you have to play more of a bump and run - which is what Darelle Revis and Patrick Peterson excel at. It's not the physical jam that you're looking for. For the physical jam with a smaller corner, you have to have a safety over the top in a two deep shell. But, if you're playing a 2 shell against Manning - he's going to carve you up all day long - which he did anyway, but, that's besides the point.
Furthermore, in playing the type of jam coverage that you're talking about, your LB's are left 1-1 with TE's - which, quite frankly without Bowman and Willis, we do not have the personnel to do. Julius Thomas ate up Wilhoite in coverage and Borland is a liability in man coverage.
Plus, we tried to rush 4 all night and only got one real pressure on manning. My issue throughout the game was less in coverage, but more in lack of pass rush. Seattle was able to dominate in the SB not because of their jam coverage, but because they had a ferocious pass rush that overwhelmed Denver's line. It wasn't that Manning had to hold the ball for a second longer, it was that Manning had to get rid of the ball a second sooner. Which meant, the press wasn't a liability.
I agree that we can mix up our coverages - nothing wrong with that - but we do mix it up a lot. From what I've heard for a while, it seems like you want us to play a mirror of Seattle's defense?? Our defense is just not built the same way. We're a defense that's more about cerebral play and quickness in the back end. Seattle's is about length. They use length in the defenders to cut down the throwing lanes so that QB's have a tough time getting rid of the ball quickly. That, mixed with their pass rush, makes them tough. But, if their pass rush is even average, they can get carved up. Just look at what Austin Davis did - not great in the yards per attempt, but, almost 90% completion....
