Our Defensive Coordinator, Vic Fangio

Our Best Pass Rusher Posting on FB while he watches the rest of the team on TV.....Sucks!!!!!!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
not press man.

yeah, good luck playing press vs. those receivers. we're not Seattle.

we're not trying to be seattle

seattle isn't even excellent in coverage without being able to hold you this year is proving that fact.

i am saying in a timing based offense you need to do something to knock them off of their routes or disrupt the timing.
the answer can't be do nothing and hope for the best.

now
blitzing will get you murdered against manning.
playing zone will get you beat like it did playing off man will get you beat like it did
if you're going to go out, go out swinging imo.
don't make it easy on them when physical nature is what they don't like. don't play our guys for being completely horrible compared to denver's wr's they're not. the ONLY wr that doesn't care about contact is thomas. the rest can't deal with it.

and again none of this means we win the game none of it means if we did this it would have been completely different it just means try this or we should have tried something or prepared differently than we did.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
so just sit back and take it then. that's the solution
clearly off coverage and our pattern matching offered no resistance in the 1st half...

you're asking to play tight man coverage against better receivers with no pass rush.

couldnt even f**king move Manning off his spot. not about just sacks, but making him uncomfortable and throwing earlier then when he wants to. you make no sense.

Here's the article that shows how those Giants back in the day combated Walsh's WCO:

http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/popularity.html

This is straight from Steve Young:
-----------------------------------------------------
The defense that gave us the most difficulty, however, was the New York Giants through the 1980s and the early 1990s under defensive coordinator Bill Belichick. The defense (generally a two-deep zone) wasn't tactically difficult, and we had the plays for it. But the Giants players -- Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Gary Reasons, Leonard Marshall, Pepper Johnson -- were together so long and ran it so well, they limited our explosiveness.

The Giants always had 11 eyeballs on the quarterback. They played zone, faced the quarterback, waited for me to throw the ball and tackled everything, forcing us to work our way down the field. No one was able to get free runs with the ball. Belichick also understood that he could affect the quarterback's timing if a defensive back got in the receiver's face.

Originally posted by thl408:
When going 1v1 in man coverage it helps to have a great pass rush. I know you know this, just stating it so that I can make the next point. The longer a CB is forced to be 1v1 against a WR that is better than him, the more separation that WR will get. Please don't use the 'Giants back in the day' as an example and compare it to the 49er defense that was fielded yesterday. They had Lawrance Taylor wrecking havoc. Oh and they also played zone. It was about jamming the WRs to throw off the timing routes, while keeping their eyes on the QB (zone).

you can't let them run like it's a 7 on 7 drill

you're damned if you do that for sure.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
not press man.

yeah, good luck playing press vs. those receivers. we're not Seattle.

we're not trying to be seattle

seattle isn't even excellent in coverage without being able to hold you this year is proving that fact.

i am saying in a timing based offense you need to do something to knock them off of their routes or disrupt the timing.
the answer can't be do nothing and hope for the best.

now
blitzing will get you murdered against manning.
playing zone will get you beat like it did playing off man will get you beat like it did
if you're going to go out, go out swinging imo.
don't make it easy on them when physical nature is what they don't like. don't play our guys for being completely horrible compared to denver's wr's they're not. the ONLY wr that doesn't care about contact is thomas. the rest can't deal with it.

and again none of this means we win the game none of it means if we did this it would have been completely different it just means try this or we should have tried something or prepared differently than we did.

again, to beat someone like manning you have to get pressure without having to blitz. Which would allow you to play the press you want.

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the article that shows how those Giants back in the day combated Walsh's WCO:

http://static.espn.go.com/nfl/s/westcoast/popularity.html

This is straight from Steve Young:
-----------------------------------------------------
The defense that gave us the most difficulty, however, was the New York Giants through the 1980s and the early 1990s under defensive coordinator Bill Belichick. The defense (generally a two-deep zone) wasn't tactically difficult, and we had the plays for it. But the Giants players -- Lawrence Taylor, Harry Carson, Carl Banks, Gary Reasons, Leonard Marshall, Pepper Johnson -- were together so long and ran it so well, they limited our explosiveness.

The Giants always had 11 eyeballs on the quarterback. They played zone, faced the quarterback, waited for me to throw the ball and tackled everything, forcing us to work our way down the field. No one was able to get free runs with the ball. Belichick also understood that he could affect the quarterback's timing if a defensive back got in the receiver's face.

But, but, press man coverage!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
so just sit back and take it then. that's the solution
clearly off coverage and our pattern matching offered no resistance in the 1st half...

you're asking to play tight man coverage against better receivers with no pass rush.

couldnt even f**king move Manning off his spot. not about just sacks, but making him uncomfortable and throwing earlier then when he wants to. you make no sense.

When did they get a chance to move manning off of his spot lol... the ball was gone within 2-3 seconds because the wr's were at their spots with a free run to it within 2 to 3 seconds.

2 to 3 seconds the ball was OUT our db's weren't forced to be in coverage for an extended period of time while manning found his 4th wr's he was hitting his 1st read all night because that 1st read got to run like nobody was out there

we can try to blame pass rush but part of what peyton does is get rid of the ball so that the pass rush cannot get there. he makes the line look better than it is because 3 seconds after the snap the ball is no longer there

so

aside from bringing a jail house blitz on every down how do you propose we make him hold the ball longer than the 2-3 seconds tops that he is accustomed to holding it?

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
not press man.

yeah, good luck playing press vs. those receivers. we're not Seattle.

we're not trying to be seattle

seattle isn't even excellent in coverage without being able to hold you this year is proving that fact.

i am saying in a timing based offense you need to do something to knock them off of their routes or disrupt the timing.
the answer can't be do nothing and hope for the best.

now
blitzing will get you murdered against manning.
playing zone will get you beat like it did playing off man will get you beat like it did
if you're going to go out, go out swinging imo.
don't make it easy on them when physical nature is what they don't like. don't play our guys for being completely horrible compared to denver's wr's they're not. the ONLY wr that doesn't care about contact is thomas. the rest can't deal with it.

and again none of this means we win the game none of it means if we did this it would have been completely different it just means try this or we should have tried something or prepared differently than we did.

again, to beat someone like manning you have to get pressure without having to blitz. Which would allow you to play the press you want.

you're doing it backwards. the rush can't get to him because the ball is already gone. he did not sit back and hold the ball for 4 seconds while routes developed
it was snap look and throw all night. i don't care who we lined up out there unless the tackles fell down we weren't going to get pressure when it's THAT easy and your receivers are that open that soon.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
so just sit back and take it then. that's the solution
clearly off coverage and our pattern matching offered no resistance in the 1st half...

you're asking to play tight man coverage against better receivers with no pass rush.

couldnt even f**king move Manning off his spot. not about just sacks, but making him uncomfortable and throwing earlier then when he wants to. you make no sense.

When did they get a chance to move manning off of his spot lol... the ball was gone within 2-3 seconds because the wr's were at their spots with a free run to it within 2 to 3 seconds.

2 to 3 seconds the ball was OUT our db's weren't forced to be in coverage for an extended period of time while manning found his 4th wr's he was hitting his 1st read all night because that 1st read got to run like nobody was out there

we can try to blame pass rush but part of what peyton does is get rid of the ball so that the pass rush cannot get there. he makes the line look better than it is because 3 seconds after the snap the ball is no longer there

so

aside from bringing a jail house blitz on every down how do you propose we make him hold the ball longer than the 2-3 seconds tops that he is accustomed to holding it?

We did it with Aldon, did we not? lol

Originally posted by defenderDX:
all I know is Brock did not have to drop back passed the goal line giving up the record breaking TD. every down before that I saw other 49er corners not dropping that far. Was not a good game for Brock to return in in my opinion..

he was rusty. i can't get too mad at him. he hasn't played in forever and as soon as he comes back culliver goes out. it's like their tagging each other in.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
not press man.

yeah, good luck playing press vs. those receivers. we're not Seattle.

we're not trying to be seattle

seattle isn't even excellent in coverage without being able to hold you this year is proving that fact.

i am saying in a timing based offense you need to do something to knock them off of their routes or disrupt the timing.
the answer can't be do nothing and hope for the best.

now
blitzing will get you murdered against manning.
playing zone will get you beat like it did playing off man will get you beat like it did
if you're going to go out, go out swinging imo.
don't make it easy on them when physical nature is what they don't like. don't play our guys for being completely horrible compared to denver's wr's they're not. the ONLY wr that doesn't care about contact is thomas. the rest can't deal with it.

and again none of this means we win the game none of it means if we did this it would have been completely different it just means try this or we should have tried something or prepared differently than we did.

again, to beat someone like manning you have to get pressure without having to blitz. Which would allow you to play the press you want.

you're doing it backwards. the rush can't get to him because the ball is already gone. he did not sit back and hold the ball for 4 seconds while routes developed
it was snap look and throw all night. i don't care who we lined up out there unless the tackles fell down we weren't going to get pressure when it's THAT easy and your receivers are that open that soon.

not backwards, lol. you can get pressure with a 4-man rush all day if you have the personnel for it. wondering what's up with Tank.

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
he was rusty. i can't get too mad at him. he hasn't played in forever and as soon as he comes back culliver goes out. it's like their tagging each other in.

I know he was rusty. this was the worst game for him to come back in. personnel wise we were in trouble to start the game.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
so just sit back and take it then. that's the solution
clearly off coverage and our pattern matching offered no resistance in the 1st half...

you're asking to play tight man coverage against better receivers with no pass rush.

couldnt even f**king move Manning off his spot. not about just sacks, but making him uncomfortable and throwing earlier then when he wants to. you make no sense.

When did they get a chance to move manning off of his spot lol... the ball was gone within 2-3 seconds because the wr's were at their spots with a free run to it within 2 to 3 seconds.

2 to 3 seconds the ball was OUT our db's weren't forced to be in coverage for an extended period of time while manning found his 4th wr's he was hitting his 1st read all night because that 1st read got to run like nobody was out there

we can try to blame pass rush but part of what peyton does is get rid of the ball so that the pass rush cannot get there. he makes the line look better than it is because 3 seconds after the snap the ball is no longer there

so

aside from bringing a jail house blitz on every down how do you propose we make him hold the ball longer than the 2-3 seconds tops that he is accustomed to holding it?

We did it with Aldon, did we not? lol

So again the solution is just wish we had aldon other than that just let it happen.. gotcha.

we know things are different when all of our players are in the game. that statement hasn't been disputed by me.
my position is you have to do something else when the 1st thing you planned for clearly isn't working.
if we don't have the pass rush with aldon smith in there somehow give them an extra second to do something maybe?

blitzing is out of the question imo
what else is there to do..

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonesadrian:
not press man.

yeah, good luck playing press vs. those receivers. we're not Seattle.

we're not trying to be seattle

seattle isn't even excellent in coverage without being able to hold you this year is proving that fact.

i am saying in a timing based offense you need to do something to knock them off of their routes or disrupt the timing.
the answer can't be do nothing and hope for the best.

now
blitzing will get you murdered against manning.
playing zone will get you beat like it did playing off man will get you beat like it did
if you're going to go out, go out swinging imo.
don't make it easy on them when physical nature is what they don't like. don't play our guys for being completely horrible compared to denver's wr's they're not. the ONLY wr that doesn't care about contact is thomas. the rest can't deal with it.

and again none of this means we win the game none of it means if we did this it would have been completely different it just means try this or we should have tried something or prepared differently than we did.

again, to beat someone like manning you have to get pressure without having to blitz. Which would allow you to play the press you want.

you're doing it backwards. the rush can't get to him because the ball is already gone. he did not sit back and hold the ball for 4 seconds while routes developed
it was snap look and throw all night. i don't care who we lined up out there unless the tackles fell down we weren't going to get pressure when it's THAT easy and your receivers are that open that soon.

not backwards, lol. you can get pressure with a 4-man rush all day if you have the personnel for it. wondering what's up with Tank.

and this continues to work back to my point.
you don't have the personnel to run the defense that you want so do something different with the defense you have. im just not going to accept bend over and take it as a viable game plan.