Poll: Peyton or Alex?

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
there will be a whos the man " Manning vs Manning NFC championship game rematch.... 4sure if he signs

The Giants are gonna fold next year.

Originally posted by 49erJim:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by 49erJim:
just one problem, Alex Smith can't toss the rock and Manning can. I rather have Manning with a broken leg and hand then Alex Smith....

Manning is good, but your hatred of Smith is irrational. Smith did a nice job last year. At his age and experience, his trajectory is about to cross Peyton Mannings. Manning is a very good regular season statistical player, excellent in fantasy, but a Super Bowl is by no means the guaranteed result of his signing. His teams have been one and done in seven years he has led them to the playoffs. He has led one come-from-behind win in 19 postseason games.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1107466-peyton-manning-risk-or-reward

I dont hate on anyone, I am just tried of his play, his play is irrational, and hes been paid very well. If you give Peyton Manning the 49ers defense, and one more good WR you have a much better chance of going to the superbowl then you do with Alex Smith.

I don't see it...Next year Alex would be much better than this year and last year we were just a punt returner short of making it to the big game. This years team will be better. Alex will have his second year in the same system and should be much improved. Manning will have to learn a NEW system for the first time in his FHOF career. He may not be that good for us...

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
A 28 year old Alex Smith will be comparable in production to a 36 year old Peyton Manning and will cost less than half the price. And if he backslides, why did we just trade picks to move up for Kaepernick? I thought the whole plan with the front office was that they were not trying to capture lightning in a bottle, but were building for a long, sustained run. Overpaying for Manning seems a little impulsive for a team as solid as the Niners. Manning is overrated at this point in his career. There, I said it.

Then why offer Alex a contract at all? Alex for three years or Manning for three years? A just comparing Alex's production to Mamming's is laughable.

Your response is incomprehensible. At 36 years of age, and after several neck surgeries, Manning is over the hill. At this point in his career he's a marginal upgrade over Alex Smith coming into his prime years, given age and health. Prime v. Prime, Manning is clearly the better player and one of the greats. But Manning was declining before his injury. He certainly looked like no Superman when the Niners confused and pressured him all day in 2010. He is not worth mortgaging the future for and it would be a mistake. This whole story is total media generated hyperbole that Manning and his agent, Condon, are lapping up because it will drive his price throught the stratosphere.

"Smith coming into his prime" going into his what 8th year! lol

"Marginal Upgrade" you know we were 29th in passing last year right?

How was Manning declining exactly?

Didn't he win that game that he looked confused in?

And we're not mortgaging the future, CK ethier learns behind Alex or Manning

Mannings best years statistically were his 7th - 9th year in the league -- based on QB rating and Super Bowl win in 2006. Alex Smith is coming into his 7th season, which corresponds with Manning's prime. Mannings's QB rating in his last healthy season in 2010 was 91.9. Alex Smith's QB rating last year was 90.7. I think Manning's trajectory is downward, which is borne out by a generally declining QB rating since his prime in years 7-9, though still very good numbers. Factor in the age and neck surgeries, you have to expect his production to drop from his prior stats, especially considering the Niners don't have top tier receivers and prefer to run the ball. So, is Manning clutch? Playoff record is 7-10. One SB win, one loss. Game winning drives in playoff appearances - 1. He is consistently good in the regular season, not as good in the playoffs, and his numbers are in decline with age and serious injuries. Juxtapose Alex Smith, at 28, in a system he's comfortable with and a good coach, who has demonstrated an ability to win playoff games and pull out clutch wins throughout the season. If there is an edge to Manning at this point, it is marginal, and certainly not worth an extra $30-40 Million cap hit. Oh, and that winning TD thrown in 2010 was chucked by the running back on a gimmick play after we owned Manning all day.

Manning has been in his prime since 1999. Just because his stats were ridiculously good in year 7-9 doesn't mean he was any less dominant. Tom Brady's best year was in 2007, that doesn't mean he's still not in his prime. And if Alex's prime is 17 TD's and 29th in passing, ya I'll pass. I love Alex but come on don't let hommerism get in the way of logic. And Manning has never had a defence like ours and the last time his running game was as good, he won a Superbowl.

I've given you nothing but logic and facts. Why don't you answer this one: How do Peyton Manning's post-season achievements stack up with his regular season achievements? Answer: notably worse. So, if this is all about pushing the Niners over the top to get the Super Bowl, why is everyone so certain that Manning is the guy? Manning's playoff record is 9-10. He was one-and-done SEVEN times with Colts. TDs 29 Ints 19 QB Rating 88.4. We're not talking about signing Joe Montana here.

Originally posted by 49erJim:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by KID9R:
Archie Manning, Dan Marino, Boomer

Marino
Mark Clayton

Boomer
Cris Collinsworth
Eddie Brown

Archie wasn't great

Cris Collinsworth and Eddie Brown? you're reaching big time.

I would say Jeff failed again. Brown only had one okay season. He never was that good. I saw both of them play.

Brown

1985 offensive rookie of the year
1988 Probowl

His 1,273 receiving yards was a franchise record, and his 24 yards per catch average is an NFL single-season record that still stands for receivers with 50+ receptions. Brown's team record for receiving yards was later surpassed by Chad Johnson's 1,355 yards in 2003, but it took Johnson 37 more receptions than Brown (90) to reach this mark. Brown also set a franchise record for most receiving yards in a single game (216) in the 1988 season, which stood until surpassed by Johnson's 260 receiving yards in a game during the 2006 season.

Brown's final NFL season was in 1991. He finished his 7-year NFL career with 363 catches (7th in Bengals history) for 6,134 yards (5th) and 41 touchdowns (4th), along with 164 rushing yards.

Collinsworth

3× Pro Bowl (1981, 1982, 1983)
Second-team All-Pro (1981, 1982, 1985)
First-team All-Pro (1983)
He surpassed 1,000 yards receiving four times (in 1981, 1983, 1985, and 1986)

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by 49erJim:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by KID9R:
Archie Manning, Dan Marino, Boomer

Marino
Mark Clayton

Boomer
Cris Collinsworth
Eddie Brown

Archie wasn't great

jeff what is your point? You think Alex Smith is better then Manning now? You would rather have Alex Smith as your QB then Manning? With Alex Smith as our 2012 qb the 49ers might not even get to the NFC CHAMPIONSHIP game again. Manning season in and season out can take you there, and he has never had an defense like ours. Is it the money or Manning age or both?

And once again you guys aren't answering the question. You give examples (wrong by the way) to answer my question and then ask what the point is to the question I asked that you incorrectly answered....? I will do this again.....we had nobody at WR who was doing anything. My point is Alex needs weapons outside of Davis and that was proven by every mock having us taking WR's, sports writers saying we need WR's and the poll I posted months ago asking the team weakness and it came up......WR. Every good QB who is SUCCESSFUL has good WR's.

Now I can say one makes the other and vice versa. If we had other help besides Swain and Hasting the numbers would of been better. If Curtis Painter can put Wayne and Garcon at 950+ each then it shows what good WR's can do with a dog s**t QB...which Alex is not. The low passing numbers, the 3rd down %, etc etc will get much better with adequate players. Thinking Manning would of made those 2 idiots great is laughable, s**t players will always be s**t. Wayne and Garcon posted great numbers with a crap QB...like Fitz has done and other guys with QB's less stellar then Alex.

To sum up get Alex help and he will be better then last year...and last year we were a c**t hair away from the Superbowl. Expecting these great passing numbers from Alex when he has garbage is idiotic. The great passing numbers come from QB's with ACTUAL HELP, something Alex never has never had. The great guys have stellar WR's and that trend has always been true. You will never find 1 great QB who had crap to work with for more then 2 years.....the FO of that team fixes the problem. We have played the FA 1 year deal on washed up players approach for years and it never worked. The best guy we had for Alex just left for Washington, Crabs is an enigma that will leave when his contract is up, and after that we have Mr. Fumble Williams......and Moss. And if we are lucky stone hands Ginn will come back to catch punts and run go routes he has no interest in catching.....does that sound like a winning group of guys for any QB?

Get the kid weapons!

this + i believe a second year in a offense for ONCE in alex's pro career, i dunno maybe he BLOWS up and actually has a great year.

Remember last year when I think it was against the Cards (not ol sure on that) Ginn gets a punt return and takes it nearly 70yards he's just ready to score a touchdown and gets caught and falls 3 feet from glory. I knew then and I know other people felt the same way that it was going to be 3 points and ol and behold Akers comes on to kick.

I like Alex, I really do and I'm happy for him to lead to the team out every week but whn he's QB there are always points left on the field which means our depth guys like CK etc and younger rookies can't get game time to develop because there are only 1 score difference and we need our best guys n the field.


Manning wins my vote for these reasons alone and not only that think about how full Candlestick and the new stadium would be each week in the regular season with Manning leading this team It'd be like the 80's all over again. I guarantee Jed has thought about that as well.

and how many wins did these q.b.s get? ohh and how many come from behind fourth quarter victories did they have?????

one of the reasons our defense was so good was also due to very low turnovers by our man ... ALEX

Originally posted by BSofSF:
I've given you nothing but logic and facts. Why don't you answer this one: How do Peyton Manning's post-season achievements stack up with his regular season achievements? Answer: notably worse. So, if this is all about pushing the Niners over the top to get the Super Bowl, why is everyone so certain that Manning is the guy? Manning's playoff record is 9-10. He was one-and-done SEVEN times with Colts. TDs 29 Ints 19 QB Rating 88.4. We're not talking about signing Joe Montana here.

DAMN i love this post!

it is well known Peyton doesn't win the big games!!

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by niner559:
Come on...Alex was the 9th rated passer last year!!! The team was 29th in passing YARDS...Offensive philosophy.

I could just as easily turn it the other way around.

The coach designs plays where when the first read is open, you take it and ignore the rest of the field, otherwise you check down. This will give most average talents a solid QB rating. But it will also prevent them from finding big play opportunities down the field.

Manning scans the whole field, and goes for big chunks of yards even if the receiver is blanketed. This results in huge yards and huge TD numbers in a season, although he might not be as efficient.
He also hits the receivers in stride where they can run with the ball after the catch 90% of the time. He doesn't throw it 5 ft over their head forcing them to make leaping catches half the time.
Its his "philosophy" because he is able to make the incredible throws all game long.

Its our "philosophy" to be the 29th ranked passing attack, because we have to design special plays to get our guys wide open.

Manning knew his offense like the back, front, and sides of his hand. He could scan the field because of this and because of his line. Alex did not know this new offense and also did not have a great OL. Manning has never done well in the playoffs because he had to play better defenses. Plus, Manning is on the down side of his career and alex is on the up side.

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
A 28 year old Alex Smith will be comparable in production to a 36 year old Peyton Manning and will cost less than half the price. And if he backslides, why did we just trade picks to move up for Kaepernick? I thought the whole plan with the front office was that they were not trying to capture lightning in a bottle, but were building for a long, sustained run. Overpaying for Manning seems a little impulsive for a team as solid as the Niners. Manning is overrated at this point in his career. There, I said it.

Then why offer Alex a contract at all? Alex for three years or Manning for three years? A just comparing Alex's production to Mamming's is laughable.

Your response is incomprehensible. At 36 years of age, and after several neck surgeries, Manning is over the hill. At this point in his career he's a marginal upgrade over Alex Smith coming into his prime years, given age and health. Prime v. Prime, Manning is clearly the better player and one of the greats. But Manning was declining before his injury. He certainly looked like no Superman when the Niners confused and pressured him all day in 2010. He is not worth mortgaging the future for and it would be a mistake. This whole story is total media generated hyperbole that Manning and his agent, Condon, are lapping up because it will drive his price throught the stratosphere.

"Smith coming into his prime" going into his what 8th year! lol

"Marginal Upgrade" you know we were 29th in passing last year right?

How was Manning declining exactly?

Didn't he win that game that he looked confused in?

And we're not mortgaging the future, CK ethier learns behind Alex or Manning

Mannings best years statistically were his 7th - 9th year in the league -- based on QB rating and Super Bowl win in 2006. Alex Smith is coming into his 7th season, which corresponds with Manning's prime. Mannings's QB rating in his last healthy season in 2010 was 91.9. Alex Smith's QB rating last year was 90.7. I think Manning's trajectory is downward, which is borne out by a generally declining QB rating since his prime in years 7-9, though still very good numbers. Factor in the age and neck surgeries, you have to expect his production to drop from his prior stats, especially considering the Niners don't have top tier receivers and prefer to run the ball. So, is Manning clutch? Playoff record is 7-10. One SB win, one loss. Game winning drives in playoff appearances - 1. He is consistently good in the regular season, not as good in the playoffs, and his numbers are in decline with age and serious injuries. Juxtapose Alex Smith, at 28, in a system he's comfortable with and a good coach, who has demonstrated an ability to win playoff games and pull out clutch wins throughout the season. If there is an edge to Manning at this point, it is marginal, and certainly not worth an extra $30-40 Million cap hit. Oh, and that winning TD thrown in 2010 was chucked by the running back on a gimmick play after we owned Manning all day.

Manning has been in his prime since 1999. Just because his stats were ridiculously good in year 7-9 doesn't mean he was any less dominant. Tom Brady's best year was in 2007, that doesn't mean he's still not in his prime. And if Alex's prime is 17 TD's and 29th in passing, ya I'll pass. I love Alex but come on don't let hommerism get in the way of logic. And Manning has never had a defence like ours and the last time his running game was as good, he won a Superbowl.

I've given you nothing but logic and facts. Why don't you answer this one: How do Peyton Manning's post-season achievements stack up with his regular season achievements? Answer: notably worse. So, if this is all about pushing the Niners over the top to get the Super Bowl, why is everyone so certain that Manning is the guy? Manning's playoff record is 9-10. He was one-and-done SEVEN times with Colts. TDs 29 Ints 19 QB Rating 88.4. We're not talking about signing Joe Montana here.

This x 10!!!

And then Alex signs with seattle ... Carol vs Harbaugh part ??? Then the niner fans will really boo Alex

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
one of the reasons our defense was so good was also due to very low turnovers by our man ... ALEX

Manning's TD's to Int's 399 to 198

Alex 68 to 58

Originally posted by KID9R:

Originally posted by matthewabbit:
one of the reasons our defense was so good was also due to very low turnovers by our man ... ALEX

Manning's TD's to Int's 399 to 198

Alex 68 to 58

go check his post season stats

Originally posted by bleeds9ersredandgold:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
I've given you nothing but logic and facts. Why don't you answer this one: How do Peyton Manning's post-season achievements stack up with his regular season achievements? Answer: notably worse. So, if this is all about pushing the Niners over the top to get the Super Bowl, why is everyone so certain that Manning is the guy? Manning's playoff record is 9-10. He was one-and-done SEVEN times with Colts. TDs 29 Ints 19 QB Rating 88.4. We're not talking about signing Joe Montana here.

DAMN i love this post!

it is well known Peyton doesn't win the big games!!

That is an undeniable fact. He's a well known choker.