49ers GM Trent Baalke a candidate for Executive of the Year

Originally posted by HessianDud:
I guess Dan Snyder is the greatest executive in the history of the sport.

lolz. Great point. Great post.

Signing a myriad of guys to cheap one-year contracts is not the long-term solution, since we have to visit the same guys all over again. Following the pattern established by Baalke, that he is not willing to pay to build a roster, this should be a big concern. Alex Smith is not going to come cheap, neither is Rogers. And, Goldson should be ready to cash in as well. This is only the tip of the challenges the team will need to address. The list of 2012 free agents on this team is very long.

My premise is...paying the necessary dollars to a player last year like Johnathan Joseph, locks that player in for some time. The Texans, who have a better game plan and better GM, are thinking beyond this year, and beyond the bottom dollar. They are going to be good in 2012 and 2013 and 2014. I have my doubts about our team. So, while Joseph will assuredly be on the Texans roster next year, making huge contributions, our team will need to be chafty in playing the free agent game in 2012. Waiting for all the big name, big money guys to be snatched, and then hoping some guy, who is average at best, to take over, is not a smart plan.

Since we do not have a record of being aggressive in free agency (people are assuming we become Snyder and the Redskins....that is not what I am saying...it is the overall approach to being willing to pay), this team could look radically different in 2012. So, while it may appear to be a smart manuever to avoid spending money in 2011, the insecure nature of this roster, littered with free agents in 2012 is something to not be dismissed. The..."I hope he is good because he is cheap and nobody wants him" is not the right approach to take long-term. In the end, and I am thinking beyond 2011, this is a wrong direction.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by Nuns:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am saying right now that unless his approach changes, and we become active in free agency, instead of waiting to scrape the bargin bin basement players off the pile, this is not a long-range winning approach. The mountain of free agents on this roster is massive, and if we think we can play lowball in signing free agents this next year, in a regular NFL year (not altered by a lockout), we cannot expect more miracles to happen. Let's not roll the dice, and see what the 8th ranked CB in the free agent market does next year for this team.

I encourage those to not take this personally. This is about a philosophy to player personnel matters, not torturing puppies.

MD,

You've been overquoted in this thread and I'm sorry to do it again, but I have to chime in about the above bolded statement. That is exactly how the Patriot's started their superbowl years. The paid reasonable prices for low end free agents instead of breaking the bank on big name players. When they have overpaid (the Raven's lb whose name escapes me), it came back to bite them.

Adalius Thomas . . . who we were supposedly going hard after . . . and thank goodness we lost out.

Ya, we have slowly built this team over the last few years, lets throw it all away and become the Eagles...

How about we approach things like the Steelers do, they don't go out to win FA every year and often let their players who want to break that bank go. You MD are falling victim to the FA cliche. We don't need to go with the big name FA busts, it doesn't work. The NFC East is finding that out (Redskins, Eagles).

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Signing guys to a myriad of one-year contracts is not the long-term solution, since we have to visit the same guys all over again. Following the pattern established by Baalke, that he is not willing to pay to build a roster, this should be a big concern. Smith is not going to come cheap, neither is Rogers. And, Goldson should be ready to cash in as well. This is only the tip of the challenges the team will need to address.

My premise is paying the necessary dollars to a player last year like Johnathan Joseph, locks that player in for some time. The Texans, who have a better game plan and better GM, are thinking beyond this year, and beyond the bottom dollar. So, while Joseph will assuredly be on the Texans roster next year, making huge contributions, our team will need to be chafty in playing the free agent game in 2012. Waiting for all the big name, big money guys to be snatched, and then hopign some guy who is average at best to take over is not a smart plan.

Since we do not have a record of being aggressive in free agency (people are assuming we become Snyder and the Redskins....that is not what I am saying...it is the overall approach to being willing to pay), this team could look radically different in 2012. So, while it may appear to be a smart manuever to avoid spending money in 2011, the insecure nature of this roster, littered with free agents in 2012 is something to not be dismissed. The..."I hope he is good because he is cheap and nobody wants him" is not the right approach to take long-term. In the end, and I am thinking beyond 2011, this is a wrong direction.

Boy I used to think you had some sense of integrity and intellect....

Baalke has been the GM for 1 year and yet you say,
"Following the pattern established by Baalke, that he is not willing to pay to build a roster, this should be a big concern."
I didn't know we could call the behaviors of one off season a pattern and then judge it for some bad track record.

You have no integrity in your premises and that is the characteristic trait of a bias pundit. This is why people slam you around here.

I understand why you do it here, you are in the educational system where it is so easy to get away information manipulation. Unfortunately you can't equate people around here to the failing educational system. There is no doubt in my mind that you have a hard time separating your status at your work from your status with the rest of us.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:

Originally posted by mjo116:
yeah cause being active in free agency is what builds winning teams, just ask dan snyder or look at this year's eagles. these two teams are gonna be contenders for at least a decade...

Yeah, I don't get the emphasis on being a more active suitor for top tier free agents. That being said I think it's pretty safe to assume that next years crop of top tier free agents will be taking a closer look at San Francisco . . . but of course that will be ENTIRELY because of the lazy guy that didn't feel like calling Bekins.

Build through the draft vs. build through FA. The latter just doesn't seem to work.

The Patriots seem to be a good example. They're always trading down in the draft and accumulating more draft picks--so every year they have a large group of rookies trying to make their roster. They routinely sacrifice the chance to get a higher draft pick in order to get more picks later on. Quantity vs quality, I guess. But they always seem to find some good players and teach them their systems. The results are, year in and year out, generally favorable. This gives them the ability to take a risk once in awhile on a FA. If it doesn't pan out, they don't lose much.

Contrast to the Redskins and their "throw money at big name FAs and keep your fingers crossed mentality."

Good discussion on this thread, but I think clearly Baalke has done a stand up and applaud type job. Like someone said before, I don't want us to be a Redskins or Eagles type outfit that overpays for free agents and gives away draft picks and is stuck with overpaid old guys.

What is wrong with giving Carlos Rogers a one year deal when we didn't really know what we were getting? We ended up with a guy who turned it around and cares, who realized he came to a team that is all about the team and winning. And that's fantastic. Can we give him a longer term deal after the season. Surely.

Rogers said it best himself:

"They [Redskins] brought in so many guys and gave them all the money and lifted them up and let guys go that they drafted and had been there," Rogers told me and co-host Gil Brandt. "I really wasn't finding them building a team that way. Of course, you're going to need free agents and some spots you need to fill. But you need to take care of your guys. Take care of home and not let them go. That's how you build."

Let's take care of our guys. Get free agents in spots we need to. Let's not be the Redskins and play Danny Snyder in the off season.

Nice read on Baalke and Harbaugh.

"Patience is important: Unlike what you see in some places, the Niners didn't slobber all over their No. 1 candidate last offseason. In fact, San Francisco management thought it was important for Harbaugh to investigate all his options -- most notably at Michigan and with the Dolphins -- because, as I understand it, they wanted the coach to be all-in and "didn't want second thoughts."

"As it turns out, the roster that Baalke, as assistant GM, had helped ex-GM Scot McCloughan build was pretty sturdy. And so was the relationship that Baalke built with Harbaugh, something those involved in the process were smart enough to see coming."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82435931/article/niners-success-rooted-in-chemistry-created-during-lockout

Originally posted by buck:
Nice read on Baalke and Harbaugh.

"Patience is important: Unlike what you see in some places, the Niners didn't slobber all over their No. 1 candidate last offseason. In fact, San Francisco management thought it was important for Harbaugh to investigate all his options -- most notably at Michigan and with the Dolphins -- because, as I understand it, they wanted the coach to be all-in and "didn't want second thoughts."

"As it turns out, the roster that Baalke, as assistant GM, had helped ex-GM Scot McCloughan build was pretty sturdy. And so was the relationship that Baalke built with Harbaugh, something those involved in the process were smart enough to see coming."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82435931/article/niners-success-rooted-in-chemistry-created-during-lockout

I LOVE THIS TEAM!

My favorite part of the whole offseason/FA/draft is that both Baalke and Harbaugh said...

"We do have a plan."

I thought that was awesome. They showed complete confidence in each other and in themselves, while at the same time telling the media nothing.

So many people laughed at that statement. I wasn't laughing... I believed it. I got laughed at for it, too.

The best part, though? They've far exceeded my expectations.

Originally posted by Nuns:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

I am saying right now that unless his approach changes, and we become active in free agency, instead of waiting to scrape the bargin bin basement players off the pile, this is not a long-range winning approach. The mountain of free agents on this roster is massive, and if we think we can play lowball in signing free agents this next year, in a regular NFL year (not altered by a lockout), we cannot expect more miracles to happen. Let's not roll the dice, and see what the 8th ranked CB in the free agent market does next year for this team.

I encourage those to not take this personally. This is about a philosophy to player personnel matters, not torturing puppies.

MD,

You've been overquoted in this thread and I'm sorry to do it again, but I have to chime in about the above bolded statement. That is exactly how the Patriot's started their superbowl years. The paid reasonable prices for low end free agents instead of breaking the bank on big name players. When they have overpaid (the Raven's lb whose name escapes me), it came back to bite them.

id say ochocinco and haynesworth also bit them in the ass. I hope we continue to build through the draft, rather than risk a large investment into free agency. We will take care of our guys, thats not really a concern. We may let a couple walk if their asking price is too high, but im sure we will find capable replacements and our core of our team will remain intact.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Let's be real people, Baalke is not the one bettering the organization, it is all Harbaugh and staff. Let's take the offense: The Niners offense has the same personnel as last year, except for a few tweeks, Miller and Goodwin. Are Miller and Goodwin making the difference in this team, compared to Baas and Norris? No. This is Harbaugh's magic, not Baalke's genius. By the way, our very own Baalke did not make a move on the offensive line this year to replace Rachal, who was the incumbent to win the job. That is genius? No.

1) Baalke identified Harbaugh as the best candidate to be our HC. His projection of Harbaugh being a good NFL coach was correct. Remember, Harbaugh wasn't guaranteed to be a great hire. There were some doubts that Harbaugh's success would translate to the pros. Baalke deserves credit for getting his guy and making the right decision with the hire.

2) A bad GM would have cleaned house. Baalke recognized that we had offensive talent on the roster and kept it in place. Its not a groundbreaking move, but its a move that separates good GMs from bad GMs. A good GM maintains talent and a bad GM gets rid of talent for the sake of cleaning house. MadDog, in your opinion, what could Baalke have done better here?

3) Rachal was replaced by a player already on the roster. The solid play of Snyder shows that addressing the o-line with an outside player would have been unnecessary. Our o-line is playing well with the players Baalke kept...so what's wrong with his decision not to acquire Rachal's replacement?

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
On defense, the team let Franklin explore free agency, tried to get him back, but lost out to the Saints. The Niners shifted DL personnel, and did make one bold and aggressive move I do give credit to Baalke, signing McDonald. The rest of the front seven starting unit is the same. The secondary is largely the same, subbing Rogers for Clements, and Whitner for the R. Smith (injured) and Mays (49ers bust) combo. Rogers was a stroke of luck, not genius. We tried to bid for a number of free agents before signing him, and there was obviously no belief he would be anywhere close to as good as he has been , or he would have been the number 2 or 3 free agent CB on the market, not the 7th or 8th signed to a whopping one-year deal. Pure, blind luck, not genius.

1) As another poster stated previously, MORE THAN HALF of the defensive starters are different this year. The changes made to our defense were UPGRADES. Not to mention, they weren't obvious upgrades. Baalke let good/proven players go and replaced them with better/unproven players. Baalke deserves credit for this.

2) Your stance on the Carlos Rogers move being lucky is nothing but speculation. Do you know the actual order Baalke ranked the free agent CBs? If you don't, then stop insisting that Rogers was the 7th or 8th rated CB on his radar. Unless you know how he ranked these players, your idea of Baalke benefiting from "blind luck" is meaningless because there's no credibility there.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I will tip my hat to his draft selection of Bowman last year.....right after the pick of Taylor Mays....genius....uh, how about Morgan Burnett?

I will tip my hat to the draft selection of Montana in 1979...right after the pick of James Owens...genius...uh, how about Mark Gastineau?

My point: EVERYBODY hits, misses, or could have drafted a better player.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Let's be real, the difference-maker is Harbaugh and company. And, the Niners almost threw away a slam dunk signing by lowballing his offer, allowing other teams to jump in and compete for his services. Lucky that he: 1) Wanted to stay in the Bay Area for his kid's schooling; 2) The Niners are in the Bay Area; 3) He wanted to coach for an NFL team. Again, "All Praise to Baalke" for signing Harbaugh is a joke. An elementary school negotiator could have finished this deal. Hardly genius.

1) Much like free agents, the Niners offered Harbaugh what they felt he was worth and stuck to their offer. They could have easily over-payed for him, but instead got him at a fair deal. MadDog, whats the negative here?

2) Baalke letting Harbaugh explore all his options was a smart move (and a move that most GMs would have been afraid to do). It shows that Baalke wanted to hire a coach who absolutely wanted to be here. That's a great thing in my opinion. A good GM should be certain that his guy is here for the long haul. Does Nick Saban ring a bell? By giving Harbaugh an opportunity to weigh out his options, he knew he would get a guy who was SURE he wanted to be here if he decided to be our HC.

3) Another thing you haven't considered is Baalke's ability to communicate. Any GM could offer money to get their guy (like what the Dolphins tried to do), but where's the skill in that? According to you, the Niners tried to "lowball" Harbaugh's offer...so obviously Baalke didn't have an edge as far as money is concerned. He had to sell his vision to Harbaugh. After Harbaugh decided to be our coach, he claimed that he liked Baalke's vision and he felt comfortable with him because he also was a "football guy". You brought up several reasons why Harbaugh would want to come to the Niners, but I believe Baalke and his vision for the team is what ultimately landed our coach.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I am saying right now that unless his approach changes, and we become active in free agency, instead of waiting to scrape the bargin bin basement players off the pile, this is not a long-range winning approach. The mountain of free agents on this roster is massive, and if we think we can play lowball in signing free agents this next year, in a regular NFL year (not altered by a lockout), we cannot expect more miracles to happen. Let's not roll the dice, and see what the 8th ranked CB in the free agent market does next year for this team.

1) There's a difference between being active and overly aggressive in free agency. Being ACTIVE is attempting to acquire targeted players, but only at their value. Being OVERLY AGGRESSIVE is attempting to acquire targeted players, and willing to overpay regardless of value. We HAVE been active in free agency. We bid for Nnamdi, but didn't overpay. No, we didn't get him...but the point is that we DID make an attempt to get him. The Niners signed several players this offseason. We didn't make a splash in free agency but you can't say we weren't active.

2) I disagree that Baalke's approach is to "wait to scrape the bargain bin". I believe he wants to get guys according to their value.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I encourage those to not take this personally. This is about a philosophy to player personnel matters, not torturing puppies.

You're entitled to your opinion and I respect it. As far as philosophies to player personnel matters, there isn't a blueprint to success. We have seen the "aggressive free agency" approach work (1994 49ers) and fail (Synder's Redskins). We have seen the "build through the draft/add FA depth" approach work (00s Patriots/Packers) and fail (00s Browns).

As you can see, both styles work sometimes and fail sometimes. So far, Baalke's approach (which you disagree with) IS working and the Eagles' approach (which you agree with) is NOT working. Like I said before, I respect your opinion...but why do you think Baalke's style is such a bad way to go about things when it has delivered mostly positive results? Other than the fact that things haven't gone like you predicted, I don't see how anybody can knock Baalke right now.

Baalke and Harbaugh will both be taking home the of-the-year hardware this season.

Although this has nothing to do with this season, he was also the point man last year in a draft that brought us Bowman and Lupati, and now finally Anthony Davis is begining to maximize his potential. Just thought mentioning that along with all the incredible work that he has done this season shows how many positive changes this man has made in such a short time.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Signing a myriad of guys to cheap one-year contracts is not the long-term solution, since we have to visit the same guys all over again. Following the pattern established by Baalke, that he is not willing to pay to build a roster, this should be a big concern. Alex Smith is not going to come cheap, neither is Rogers. And, Goldson should be ready to cash in as well. This is only the tip of the challenges the team will need to address. The list of 2012 free agents on this team is very long.

My premise is...paying the necessary dollars to a player last year like Johnathan Joseph, locks that player in for some time. The Texans, who have a better game plan and better GM, are thinking beyond this year, and beyond the bottom dollar. They are going to be good in 2012 and 2013 and 2014. I have my doubts about our team. So, while Joseph will assuredly be on the Texans roster next year, making huge contributions, our team will need to be chafty in playing the free agent game in 2012. Waiting for all the big name, big money guys to be snatched, and then hoping some guy, who is average at best, to take over, is not a smart plan.

Since we do not have a record of being aggressive in free agency (people are assuming we become Snyder and the Redskins....that is not what I am saying...it is the overall approach to being willing to pay), this team could look radically different in 2012. So, while it may appear to be a smart manuever to avoid spending money in 2011, the insecure nature of this roster, littered with free agents in 2012 is something to not be dismissed. The..."I hope he is good because he is cheap and nobody wants him" is not the right approach to take long-term. In the end, and I am thinking beyond 2011, this is a wrong direction.

With the salary cap, I think the only way to build a roster is through the draft and the "bargain bin".

"Buy low, sell high." With a limited salary cap, if you are not thinking like this you will get burnt (Redskins). Popular names are almost by definition not worth the price.

Yes, there is absolutely uncertainty for the future with this approach. Every good team has a bunch of players who want to get paid. And we will be able to keep the majority of them, and let the overpriced guys walk and replace them with, yes, even MORE "bargain bin" players who fit in well with us. We'll keep the ones who give us the best leadership and chemistry.

Also, we WILL be able to sign a lot of our free agents.
- Morgan was injured. What kind of contract can he demand?
- Braylon has been injured and will not put up huge numbers in this offense anyway. He is not a critical piece in the type of offense we run. If he wants huge money let him go find it with someone else. We will be fine without him.
- Rogers and Whitner should be reasonable. If not, let them walk, they ARE replaceable, just like the ones before them were.
- Bowman and Aldon Smith are going to be expensive. With Aldon, we will do anything to pay him. Bowman, we'll have to wait and see, but I think we should have enough cap room.
- Alex Smith is going NOWHERE, we have all the leverage in the world with him. After everything he has been through, the thought of him being stupid enough to demand big money and go to a non-Harbaugh coached team is about the craziest idea I can imagine. What other team is Alex going to sign with? NNNOOOOOOOOOOOBOOODDYYY.

Ginn will be hard to resign if he wants too much money. But despite his special teams ability, we will still be OK without him.
Goldson and Brooks might be the toughest to resign, but coincidentally, they are also the biggest boneheads on defense. Constantly taking stupid penalties, by either jumping off-sides (Brooks) or kicking footballs (Goldson). If they want huge money, we will probably replace them with the draft.

Worst case, I see Braylon, Ginn, Goldson and Brooks walking. I would love to keep all of them, but we can draft players and sign "bargain" free agents who fit in well with our scheme. Losing them would not cripple our team. Let the Redskins pay them huge, and go 4-12.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Signing a myriad of guys to cheap one-year contracts is not the long-term solution, since we have to visit the same guys all over again. Following the pattern established by Baalke, that he is not willing to pay to build a roster, this should be a big concern. Alex Smith is not going to come cheap, neither is Rogers. And, Goldson should be ready to cash in as well. This is only the tip of the challenges the team will need to address. The list of 2012 free agents on this team is very long.

My premise is...paying the necessary dollars to a player last year like Johnathan Joseph, locks that player in for some time. The Texans, who have a better game plan and better GM, are thinking beyond this year, and beyond the bottom dollar. They are going to be good in 2012 and 2013 and 2014. I have my doubts about our team. So, while Joseph will assuredly be on the Texans roster next year, making huge contributions, our team will need to be chafty in playing the free agent game in 2012. Waiting for all the big name, big money guys to be snatched, and then hoping some guy, who is average at best, to take over, is not a smart plan.

Since we do not have a record of being aggressive in free agency (people are assuming we become Snyder and the Redskins....that is not what I am saying...it is the overall approach to being willing to pay), this team could look radically different in 2012. So, while it may appear to be a smart manuever to avoid spending money in 2011, the insecure nature of this roster, littered with free agents in 2012 is something to not be dismissed. The..."I hope he is good because he is cheap and nobody wants him" is not the right approach to take long-term. In the end, and I am thinking beyond 2011, this is a wrong direction.

Now wait a minute... Trent Baalke wasn't the only one who used this same strategy. If you look at most of the moves made after the lockout ended a lot of the free agent signings around the league were only one year deals! You can't fault Trent for that when the majority of the league did the same thing!