Alex Smith Thread

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think having big receivers help in the red zone area, especially inside the 15-10yds. They are able to shield and jump for a catch. As of right now other than VD and Crabtree there's no one that fit that criteria. Both Braylon and Morgan are hurt. Ginn and Williams are smallish. D. Walker can help. They should involved him more, but I don't know that he has the catching experience to do a good job. He has proven people wrong thus far on the other things he wasn't suppose to be able to do.

In the redzone players are packed tighter together. Defenders can closed quickly in a tighten field of play. Speed of the offense is a bit neutralized because of this. So size is the overriding factor in this situation.

Tom Brady doesn't have big receivers.

I think it's just a matter of play design or throwing a receiver open or the ability to squeeze it in super tight spots...no homo.

Gronkowski is 6-6 and 265 pounds.

and has a s**t ton of TD's as well

Joe you aren't making this easy on yourself whatsoever

And we have Vernon. What's your point?

Gronk is a 6'6 lanky pass catching TE, he's bigger then Vernon and catches better then Vernon, Gronk is a more natural pass catcher but cant block for s**t.

Point is Brady does have a big target and by the amount of TD's he constantly gets and the records he's breaking Brady uses him a lot.

My point was if Brady does than so do we. I thought Vernon was one of the best tight ends in the league. Also, crabtrees long arms make him much taller than 6'2" because he is also "lanky".

Joe ...JESUS CHRIST

Gronk is 5 inches taller, his arms are the same length as Crabs, and he can jump higher. HE IS A BIGGER TARGET!!

And where the hell in, "Tom Brady doesn't have big receivers. I think it's just a matter of play design or throwing a receiver open or the ability to squeeze it in super tight spots". Does it mean, "My point was if Brady does than so do we."

Brady has bigger guys, its a physical advantage, it has nothing to do with Brady's superior throwing ability that you so subtlely remarked at. When it comes to going up and getting it, the bigger guy wins. That's why we want a 6'3 or bigger WR next year, for that very purpose.


Do you pay attention to any other teams?

Gronk is only 3 inches taller than Vernon. Their other two targets are 5'9".

Vernon is 6'3" with a very high vertical. Crabtree is 6'1" and was scouted with longer arms than his height.

The original comment was that our receivers are short and that's why we don't score. Brady doesn't exactly have height all around. Gronk has three inches but Vernon has he vertical. So I don't see how that makes us so short in our targets.

Our targets are all pretty small other than Vernon. Look at the roster..... And don't give me "Braylon Edwards." When was the last consistent time period you saw him healthy?

Yes and so are NEs besides Gronk.

I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

No but the poster wrote that we are probably not scoring in the red zone due to our lack of size at WR so I brought up NE and then these other two guys try to claim that NE has way more size at WR than we do which is false.

Also, I believe their QBs play a larger role in them scoring than their receivers.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

No but the poster wrote that we are probably not scoring in the red zone due to our lack of size at WR so I brought up NE and then these other two guys try to claim that NE has way more size at WR than we do which is false.

We could use more size. Tons of teams have a 6'3" WR. Or Detroit has Megatron. 6'5 1/2" 240 lbs. Pretty nice redzone target if you ask. Vincent Jackson and Floyd for the Chargers. 6'5" each. We have 6'1" Crabtree. Even DW is around 6'1". Very small for a backup TE. Our guys are pretty small. And they could catch better too.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

No but the poster wrote that we are probably not scoring in the red zone due to our lack of size at WR so I brought up NE and then these other two guys try to claim that NE has way more size at WR than we do which is false.

Also, I believe their QBs play a larger role in them scoring than their receivers.

Gronk has 9 TD's in the redzone compared to 4 outside the redzone, and he happens to lead the league in passing TD's.

The next player with the highest TD's is Megatron with 6 in the redzone.

Originally posted by boomer49er:
Alex Smith is 10-2, has 3 times as many TDs as INTs, and as a 90+ passer rating. It's hard to argue that he isn't getting the job done. For anyone sayin Harbaugh doesn't have confidence in Alex Smith you're nuts. He's shown over and over that he does.

+1

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

So options? I'm fine with bringing back Alex. I'm fine with Kap as the starter. I'd be fine Tolzien if JH thought he was the man, or I'd be happy if we signed Josh Johnson as a free agent. As long as we have Harbaugh as our head coach, bring it on.

Let me start by saying I have read and comprehended all of your posts over these days. (shame on you for going so low on the "nut-hugger" bit)

But this part... this part just leaves me .

We finally have a QB steadily in the top 10 and helping us to a record of 10-2... and you would "be fine and happy if we signed ______ or started ______ while dumping said proven QB ???


Does this not leave most people (aside from clear detractors) not doing this??? ---->

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

Green Bay has alot of hands problems. They had the same amount of drops as us going into the Giant game and then added 6 drops in that game alone. Rodgers still put up 380 yards and 38 points so you'd never know the difference. James Jones has the worse pair of hands in the league and Finley drops some too.

The last person to have drop problems for New England was Ben Watson. With them it's by product of their environment. They don't put up with any sh*t. You can't catch the ball they'll drop you on the spot.

Originally posted by jreff22:
Gronk has 9 TD's in the redzone compared to 4 outside the redzone, and he happens to lead the league in passing TD's.

The next player with the highest TD's is Megatron with 6 in the redzone.

Vernon Davis had 13 touchdowns in 09. The notion that he's not red zone threat is laughable.

What happened to the seam in the endzone? Connected on that 7 times in 09, how many times this year? Not a critique on Alex I just don't think we're making that pass nowadays. I think we're playing it safe in the red zone.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by jreff22:
Gronk has 9 TD's in the redzone compared to 4 outside the redzone, and he happens to lead the league in passing TD's.

The next player with the highest TD's is Megatron with 6 in the redzone.

Vernon Davis had 13 touchdowns in 09. The notion that he's not red zone threat is laughable.

What happened to the seam in the endzone? Connected on that 7 times in 09, how many times this year? Not a critique on Alex I just don't think we're making that pass nowadays. I think we're playing it safe in the red zone.

This is 2011. VD gets double teamed in the red zone. Remember the non throw to Crabtree that everyone was talking about in the Seattle game...Smith's initial look was to VD. He was bracketed by 2 guys. Remember the 4th down play in the Lions' game, VD drew 2 defenders with him into the end zone, giving room for Delanie to run a slant without closing on another defender on his way into the end zone.

If you have to go back to '09 to come up with that stats on VD, you know the defense has been doing a job on VD down in the end zone. They have very actively taken away VD in the red zone. You now see VD scoring from the outside, or what do they sometime call it-- the green zone...? and mostly to the corner.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

Green Bay has alot of hands problems. They had the same amount of drops as us going into the Giant game and then added 6 drops in that game alone. Rodgers still put up 380 yards and 38 points so you'd never know the difference. James Jones has the worse pair of hands in the league and Finley drops some too.

The last person to have drop problems for New England was Ben Watson. With them it's by product of their environment. They don't put up with any sh*t. You can't catch the ball they'll drop you on the spot.

Rogers had 46 attempts so 6 drops isn't that huge, Alex had 23 attempts and could've easily had over 300 yards with half the attempts. That's f'n efficient!

Crabtree does an excellent job of catching high passes, handy in the Red Zone if they would use him. VD has done well in the Red Zone in the past. Our current Red Zone problem is that we tend to run when inside the five rather than taking a shot. I believe it is intentional to build the line and give them a chance to become more dominant in an area where it might be important during the playoffs.

Smith throws very few interceptions so I doubt Harbaugh is "protecting" against his QB making a mistake in the Red Zone.

As far as the size of the receiver is concerned it would be nice to have a Grondkowski but the rest of the NE receivers are not as big as the 9ers. Their starting three wide receivers are 5'9", 5'9" and 6'1". The 9ers are currently 6'1", 5'10" and 5'11". Morgan is 6'1" and Edwards 6'3". That is plenty of size at the WR spot. The key is getting them to jell with Smith as the Red Zone requires more precision than a more open field. The QB needs to hit a tight spot accurately and know that the WR will be there.

One interesting factoid that has not been mentioned enough is the need to keep Smith healthy. Yes, the team could score more TDs in the Red Zone if they turn Smith loose but at what cost? If Smith goes down the season is over. Harbaugh knows that and tends to run in the Red Zone minimizing potential disaster. The injury to Morgan is an example of what can happen when you run plays you do not need to win the game. When the playoffs come I would expect to see Smith turned loose in the Red Zone and being a demon for the D to stop. He is a much better runner than many people think and has been deadly in the RZ over the years.

Size does help in the redzone. I'm not saying anything new. The NFL wants big receivers for the last 20 years. In fact, it started out here in SF. Plaxio Burress has no problem getting on a team in part because of his size. C. Johnson is another one. They are all across the NFL. Not like you can't throw to a 5'10 - 5'11 guys, but when it gets down to the goal line. When 22 guys are within 20-30 yards, NFL team want that size advantage.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

I don't see their guys having hands like Ginn and Edwards and even VD ocassionally. This team still has way too many drops. NFL wr's / te's are supposed to be able to catch. Like hitting the guy between the 1 and the 9 and getting a drop. Or a perfect 50 yard bomb, hitting a guy in full stride, on the finger tips....DROP.

GB and NE have among the best "hands" team guys in the league.

No but the poster wrote that we are probably not scoring in the red zone due to our lack of size at WR so I brought up NE and then these other two guys try to claim that NE has way more size at WR than we do which is false.

Also, I believe their QBs play a larger role in them scoring than their receivers.

Gronk has 9 TD's in the redzone compared to 4 outside the redzone, and he happens to lead the league in passing TD's.

The next player with the highest TD's is Megatron with 6 in the redzone.

NEs been scoring TDs even before Gronk when everyone was small. We aren't scoring due to calling the play and executing the play, not due to lack of size. That entire premise is not true.

Agree with both gnnhan7 and Joecool on this! Size does help in the RZ but good receivers help more. Edwards and Crabtree (when healthy) should be monsters in the RZ, Edwards due to size and strength and Crabtree because he snags the ball out of the air on high passes really well. Toss in VD, who has proven himself to be a very good RZ receiver and the 9ers have great options...when they choose to use them.

Calling three straight runs inside the five yard line is not my idea of an effective RZ offense. But four field goals were three more than the 9ers needed last Sunday.

Maybe I've been sipping the cool-aid, but I think Alex is starting to become more than just a game manager. His passing yards per game have been up of late(excluding the Ravens game), and I think he is gaining confidence throwing the ball down feild. The growth in Crab this season has been a big boon for Alex. I think the chemistry has been beautiful. I think given more time and maybe another weapon or two next season he can grow to be even better.

Another thing that has impressed me is that Alex is no longer the meek mouse of a QB he was the first 6 years of his career. Sure he isn't demonstrative, but he has proven to be a much bolder player this year. His stating that he believes that the niner's O can hang with anyone, and my favorite, showing a little attitude when being hounded by reporters about being a "game manager" by saying " All I know is that I managed us into a victory," are examples of his more forceful personality.

Alex is a tough and gritty player. Hopefully he can enhance his skills further, and maybe just maybe he can have the kind of career renaissace that Rich Gannon enjoyed with the Raiders.