Troy Smith vs. Alex Smith (Article)

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

also keep in mind the longer johnson fills the roll of OC the more comfortable he gets in game planning. The offense has continued to improve every week since Johnson has taken over as the OC. I expect to see the improvements to continue and hopefully some more W's coming our way.

Oh I completely agree but also keep in mind that the ATL, PHI and CAR game produced TD's on the first drive and went into conservative mode after that until we were down by so much vs Philly and Alex had to see his career flash before his eyes. I am just stating that even with Troy Smith's LIMITED knowledge of the playbook, he still produced A LOT of big plays and more scores with LESS turnovers. Alex needs to step his game up plain and simple and there is no evidence that MJ will not continue to call a conservative game

I'm not trying to take away what Troy Smith did by any means. Both QB's are completely different beasts. Alex tries to stick to the play because that is how it goes through his head. That is how he NEEDS it to go down. Troy Smith is better at extending the play and throwing it down field. To bad that when that doesn't happen he is pretty much useless.

I agree. I just wish Alex would come out of his "shy shell" and take 2 things that Troy did that I think will help Alex a lot and that is to give his WR's a chance on the deep ball and to use his althetic ability to extend some plays. Trust his speed against the D-Linemen and if the plays are still not there, then see if you can AT LEAST pick up 1 yard on a scramble and slide (I'm sure most instances he will be able to pick up MORE than 1 yard just because his momentum will be carrying him forward). Football is a game of inches and as moot as it seems when you see it, 3rd and 9 could end up being a HUGE difference than 3rd and 10.

I agree 100%. Alex needs to believe in his playmaking abilities. The problem is the entire time he has been in the NFL he has had HC's that tell him "don't gamble, don't take shots down field, be safe with the ball" Which in turned did the exact opposite as he is to worried about making a mistake that he over things everything and f**ks up.

I think the Trent Dilfer acquisition was terrible for Alex more than anything. Seemed like Alex really took in whatever Trent was feeding him.

You may be on to something here but Alex still needs to look at the big picture and say to himself, "If I keep playing this way, I will not have a career in the NFL but If I just say f**k it and throw all that conservative mess out the window and give my team a CHANCE, I may not have a career HERE but at least I'll be able to play SOMEWHERE". Because the things he was taught and coached and the things he is doing, just aren't working and he does not have a coach that sees this so he needs to be a man and take it upon himself. He literally has NOTHING to lose if he can take some gambles and make some big plays.

Unless Trent told him not to worry if it doesn't work out here that there will always be a coach looking for a QB who understands the importance of a game manager and that he would be wanted by a coach of a team with a dominant defense. Dilfer gave game manager a bad name.

Alex Smith is a VERY smart man and I'm almost certain IF Dilfer said that nonsense, Alex did not listen to that. Alex is a competitor, not a very good one most of the time but a competitor none the less and he knows what is at stake here. If he doesn't then he just does not belong in the NFL. Dilfer had one of the best defenses of ALL TIME to back him up so he is the exception but that was 10 years ago, times change and the game has changed and if you think you can just "manage" a game and have a successful career now, you are SADLY mistaken and Alex better wake up and smell the roses

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

I get what your saying, but there are a lot more factors that go into your TD/INT numbers than just the QB playing. W/ Troy... 6 TD's and 0 Ints are against Den and Ari. TB is an average team that shut us out. GB is a SB contender. Q/ Alex Atlanta and Philadelphia are SB contenders, Oakland is average and Carolina is awful. All 4 of Alex's INT came against ATL and PHI.

You may be right maybe it wont change... but to say the offense is considerably better with Troy just is not true. Troy has completed just 52% for 4 TD and 3 Ints and he has been sacked 16 TIMES with half as many attempts. Alex has completed 59% 9 td 9 ints and been sacked 13 times.

I think the Oline and definitely the running game has improved as the season progressed - I give MJ a lot of credit for that.

Alex was 1-5 with three 3 point losses to super bowl contenders!! The other two losses were the stunner on opening day to a Seahawks team that is better than anyone thought and totally outplayed and outcoached us, and the Chiefs who are WAY better than anyone expected and will probably win the AFC West. ALL FIVE LOSSES have come to teams that have a legitimate shot to win their division, 4 of the five are 8-4 or better - only Seattle is 6-6. The one win is against a 6-6 Oakland team. Opponents combined record 41-19

Troy is 3-3 (the Carolina loss can probably go either way, the game was tied when Alex got hurt, don't give it to either QB, I don't care...) lost to 1-11 carolina by 3, 7-5 TB by 21 and 8-4 GB by 18. Beat 3-9 Denver, 3-9 Arizona and 6-6 StLouis. Opponents combined record 28-44

IF you dont want to give Troy the loss against Carolina, then his opponents record is 27-33... versus 41-19 against Alex... just sayin'

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

I get what your saying, but there are a lot more factors that go into your TD/INT numbers than just the QB playing. W/ Troy... 6 TD's and 0 Ints are against Den and Ari. TB is an average team that shut us out. GB is a SB contender. Q/ Alex Atlanta and Philadelphia are SB contenders, Oakland is average and Carolina is awful. All 4 of Alex's INT came against ATL and PHI.

You may be right maybe it wont change... but to say the offense is considerably better with Troy just is not true. Troy has completed just 52% for 4 TD and 3 Ints and he has been sacked 16 TIMES with half as many attempts. Alex has completed 59% 9 td 9 ints and been sacked 13 times.

I think the Oline and definitely the running game has improved as the season progressed - I give MJ a lot of credit for that.

Alex was 1-5 with three 3 point losses to super bowl contenders!! The other two losses were the stunner on opening day to a Seahawks team that is better than anyone thought and totally outplayed and outcoached us, and the Chiefs who are WAY better than anyone expected and will probably win the AFC West. ALL FIVE LOSSES have come to teams that have a legitimate shot to win their division, 4 of the five are 8-4 or better - only Seattle is 6-6. The one win is against a 6-6 Oakland team. Opponents combined record 41-19

Troy is 3-3 (the Carolina loss can probably go either way, the game was tied when Alex got hurt, don't give it to either QB, I don't care...) lost to 1-11 carolina by 3, 7-5 TB by 21 and 8-4 GB by 18. Beat 3-9 Denver, 3-9 Arizona and 6-6 StLouis. Opponents combined record 28-44

IF you dont want to give Troy the loss against Carolina, then his opponents record is 27-33... versus 41-19 against Alex... just sayin'

Why would I give that loss to Troy when he didn't even play against Carolina? I know Alex has played tougher teams, but he is a 6 year vet and a starting QB in the NFL and the best team he has EVER beat that was not in our division was a 9-7 Broncos team 4 YEARS AGO. How can we expect to be contenders if our Starting, #1 Overall pick, 6 year veteran QB who is pretty much in the SAME SYSTEM for his 2nd straight year (Raye and Johnson has the same system, just different plays have been called) cannot even put together turnover-less games against the elite teams? I'm not sitting here saying Troy Smith is better as much as I am I am just stating the fact that we are comparing a #1 overall pick/6 year veteran/same system QB to a 5th round pick/8 game "veteran"/no training camp or preseaon QB. That is just RIDICULOUS. AT LEAST Troy beat the teams he was "suppose" to beat. He is 3-0 against "bad teams" where Alex lost to the Seahawks with bad play (bad overthrow to Morgan on a WIDE OPEN pass, bad throw to Morris on a WIDE OPEN pass and his two picks which one was not his fault) and couldn't make enough plays to put the panthers away prior to him getting hurt.

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

I get what your saying, but there are a lot more factors that go into your TD/INT numbers than just the QB playing. W/ Troy... 6 TD's and 0 Ints are against Den and Ari. TB is an average team that shut us out. GB is a SB contender. Q/ Alex Atlanta and Philadelphia are SB contenders, Oakland is average and Carolina is awful. All 4 of Alex's INT came against ATL and PHI.

You may be right maybe it wont change... but to say the offense is considerably better with Troy just is not true. Troy has completed just 52% for 4 TD and 3 Ints and he has been sacked 16 TIMES with half as many attempts. Alex has completed 59% 9 td 9 ints and been sacked 13 times.

I think the Oline and definitely the running game has improved as the season progressed - I give MJ a lot of credit for that.

Alex was 1-5 with three 3 point losses to super bowl contenders!! The other two losses were the stunner on opening day to a Seahawks team that is better than anyone thought and totally outplayed and outcoached us, and the Chiefs who are WAY better than anyone expected and will probably win the AFC West. ALL FIVE LOSSES have come to teams that have a legitimate shot to win their division, 4 of the five are 8-4 or better - only Seattle is 6-6. The one win is against a 6-6 Oakland team. Opponents combined record 41-19

Troy is 3-3 (the Carolina loss can probably go either way, the game was tied when Alex got hurt, don't give it to either QB, I don't care...) lost to 1-11 carolina by 3, 7-5 TB by 21 and 8-4 GB by 18. Beat 3-9 Denver, 3-9 Arizona and 6-6 StLouis. Opponents combined record 28-44

IF you dont want to give Troy the loss against Carolina, then his opponents record is 27-33... versus 41-19 against Alex... just sayin'

Why would I give that loss to Troy when he didn't even play against Carolina? I know Alex has played tougher teams, but he is a 6 year vet and a starting QB in the NFL and the best team he has EVER beat that was not in our division was a 9-7 Broncos team 4 YEARS AGO. How can we expect to be contenders if our Starting, #1 Overall pick, 6 year veteran QB who is pretty much in the SAME SYSTEM for his 2nd straight year (Raye and Johnson has the same system, just different plays have been called) cannot even put together turnover-less games against the elite teams? I'm not sitting here saying Troy Smith is better as much as I am I am just stating the fact that we are comparing a #1 overall pick/6 year veteran/same system QB to a 5th round pick/8 game "veteran"/no training camp or preseaon QB. That is just RIDICULOUS. AT LEAST Troy beat the teams he was "suppose" to beat. He is 3-0 against "bad teams" where Alex lost to the Seahawks with bad play (bad overthrow to Morgan on a WIDE OPEN pass, bad throw to Morris on a WIDE OPEN pass and his two picks which one was not his fault) and couldn't make enough plays to put the panthers away prior to him getting hurt.

yeah, uh my bad... I was just reading another thread and it popped in my head... im an idiot Carr came in in Carolina...

I don't really care who was picked where at this point. It doesn't matter (to me anyway). Yep Alex has sucked and couldn't beat a .500 team on the road opening day in Seattle... I really don't think Troy would have done any better. Both QB's are bad... Its simply a choice of which sucks less... So if your chin deap in vommit and someone flings s**t at your face do you duck? Thats the choice the 9ers have right now.

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

I get what your saying, but there are a lot more factors that go into your TD/INT numbers than just the QB playing. W/ Troy... 6 TD's and 0 Ints are against Den and Ari. TB is an average team that shut us out. GB is a SB contender. Q/ Alex Atlanta and Philadelphia are SB contenders, Oakland is average and Carolina is awful. All 4 of Alex's INT came against ATL and PHI.

You may be right maybe it wont change... but to say the offense is considerably better with Troy just is not true. Troy has completed just 52% for 4 TD and 3 Ints and he has been sacked 16 TIMES with half as many attempts. Alex has completed 59% 9 td 9 ints and been sacked 13 times.

I think the Oline and definitely the running game has improved as the season progressed - I give MJ a lot of credit for that.

Alex was 1-5 with three 3 point losses to super bowl contenders!! The other two losses were the stunner on opening day to a Seahawks team that is better than anyone thought and totally outplayed and outcoached us, and the Chiefs who are WAY better than anyone expected and will probably win the AFC West. ALL FIVE LOSSES have come to teams that have a legitimate shot to win their division, 4 of the five are 8-4 or better - only Seattle is 6-6. The one win is against a 6-6 Oakland team. Opponents combined record 41-19

Troy is 3-3 (the Carolina loss can probably go either way, the game was tied when Alex got hurt, don't give it to either QB, I don't care...) lost to 1-11 carolina by 3, 7-5 TB by 21 and 8-4 GB by 18. Beat 3-9 Denver, 3-9 Arizona and 6-6 StLouis. Opponents combined record 28-44

IF you dont want to give Troy the loss against Carolina, then his opponents record is 27-33... versus 41-19 against Alex... just sayin'

Why would I give that loss to Troy when he didn't even play against Carolina? I know Alex has played tougher teams, but he is a 6 year vet and a starting QB in the NFL and the best team he has EVER beat that was not in our division was a 9-7 Broncos team 4 YEARS AGO. How can we expect to be contenders if our Starting, #1 Overall pick, 6 year veteran QB who is pretty much in the SAME SYSTEM for his 2nd straight year (Raye and Johnson has the same system, just different plays have been called) cannot even put together turnover-less games against the elite teams? I'm not sitting here saying Troy Smith is better as much as I am I am just stating the fact that we are comparing a #1 overall pick/6 year veteran/same system QB to a 5th round pick/8 game "veteran"/no training camp or preseaon QB. That is just RIDICULOUS. AT LEAST Troy beat the teams he was "suppose" to beat. He is 3-0 against "bad teams" where Alex lost to the Seahawks with bad play (bad overthrow to Morgan on a WIDE OPEN pass, bad throw to Morris on a WIDE OPEN pass and his two picks which one was not his fault) and couldn't make enough plays to put the panthers away prior to him getting hurt.

yeah, uh my bad... I was just reading another thread and it popped in my head... im an idiot Carr came in in Carolina...

I don't really care who was picked where at this point. It doesn't matter (to me anyway). Yep Alex has sucked and couldn't beat a .500 team on the road opening day in Seattle... I really don't think Troy would have done any better. Both QB's are bad... Its simply a choice of which sucks less... So if your chin deap in vommit and someone flings s**t at your face do you duck? Thats the choice the 9ers have right now.

good analogy but I know what you mean. I just want to win man, that's all. I don't give a s**t if Cody Pickett was signed and had to line up under center, I would give him my FULL support and hope he can bring home a victory. I know Alex is trash but so are the Seahawks and he just needs to NOT make mistakes and that will be enough to win the game. Is that so hard to ask a 6 year vet in the NFL?

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:

Originally posted by Sims84:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

Yes we can "open up the playbook" more with Alex but will it happen? Under Mike Johnson and Alex Smith at the helm, we have 7 Offensive TD's and 4 INT's in 4 games.

ATL - 1 TD 2 INT's

PHI - 3 TD's 2 INT's (HUGE FUMBLE returned for TD)

OAK - 2 TD's 0 INT's (very efficient game, low Comp % and yards but no TO's)

CAR - 1 TD 0 INT (got hurt with game tied 10-10)

Under Mike Johnson with Troy Smith and his "limited knowledge of the playbook" we had 9 offensive TD's and 3 INT's

DEN - 3 TD's 0 INT's

STL - 2 TD's 0 INT's

TB - 0 TD's 1 INT (horrible game)

AZ - 3 TD's 0 INT's (killed them with the run)

GB - 1 TD 1 INT

So as much as I am hoping something changes, it looks like the offense has still scored more TD's and the QB has thrown less INT's in a "watered down" offense. Just sayin

I get what your saying, but there are a lot more factors that go into your TD/INT numbers than just the QB playing. W/ Troy... 6 TD's and 0 Ints are against Den and Ari. TB is an average team that shut us out. GB is a SB contender. Q/ Alex Atlanta and Philadelphia are SB contenders, Oakland is average and Carolina is awful. All 4 of Alex's INT came against ATL and PHI.

You may be right maybe it wont change... but to say the offense is considerably better with Troy just is not true. Troy has completed just 52% for 4 TD and 3 Ints and he has been sacked 16 TIMES with half as many attempts. Alex has completed 59% 9 td 9 ints and been sacked 13 times.

I think the Oline and definitely the running game has improved as the season progressed - I give MJ a lot of credit for that.

Alex was 1-5 with three 3 point losses to super bowl contenders!! The other two losses were the stunner on opening day to a Seahawks team that is better than anyone thought and totally outplayed and outcoached us, and the Chiefs who are WAY better than anyone expected and will probably win the AFC West. ALL FIVE LOSSES have come to teams that have a legitimate shot to win their division, 4 of the five are 8-4 or better - only Seattle is 6-6. The one win is against a 6-6 Oakland team. Opponents combined record 41-19

Troy is 3-3 (the Carolina loss can probably go either way, the game was tied when Alex got hurt, don't give it to either QB, I don't care...) lost to 1-11 carolina by 3, 7-5 TB by 21 and 8-4 GB by 18. Beat 3-9 Denver, 3-9 Arizona and 6-6 StLouis. Opponents combined record 28-44

IF you dont want to give Troy the loss against Carolina, then his opponents record is 27-33... versus 41-19 against Alex... just sayin'

Why would I give that loss to Troy when he didn't even play against Carolina? I know Alex has played tougher teams, but he is a 6 year vet and a starting QB in the NFL and the best team he has EVER beat that was not in our division was a 9-7 Broncos team 4 YEARS AGO. How can we expect to be contenders if our Starting, #1 Overall pick, 6 year veteran QB who is pretty much in the SAME SYSTEM for his 2nd straight year (Raye and Johnson has the same system, just different plays have been called) cannot even put together turnover-less games against the elite teams? I'm not sitting here saying Troy Smith is better as much as I am I am just stating the fact that we are comparing a #1 overall pick/6 year veteran/same system QB to a 5th round pick/8 game "veteran"/no training camp or preseaon QB. That is just RIDICULOUS. AT LEAST Troy beat the teams he was "suppose" to beat. He is 3-0 against "bad teams" where Alex lost to the Seahawks with bad play (bad overthrow to Morgan on a WIDE OPEN pass, bad throw to Morris on a WIDE OPEN pass and his two picks which one was not his fault) and couldn't make enough plays to put the panthers away prior to him getting hurt.

yeah, uh my bad... I was just reading another thread and it popped in my head... im an idiot Carr came in in Carolina...

I don't really care who was picked where at this point. It doesn't matter (to me anyway). Yep Alex has sucked and couldn't beat a .500 team on the road opening day in Seattle... I really don't think Troy would have done any better. Both QB's are bad... Its simply a choice of which sucks less... So if your chin deap in vommit and someone flings s**t at your face do you duck? Thats the choice the 9ers have right now.

I would just move my head to the side

Just don't understand some of you. In one breath, we can all collectively state that the coaching and playcalling sucks. Then in the next, some will then say that our QBs are really bad.



Semantically speaking, should we not just say that our QBs are not good enough to overcome the coaching and playcalling?

Throw in subpar OL blocking and receivers that don't consistently get open as well. Our QBs are not elite. This is not news to anyone. What they are... one more than the other right now... are capable QBs that are not in a current environment where success is likely.

Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs just will not have good games with what they have had to work with. Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs must have unpredictable playcalling, 3+ seconds of OL protection, a run blocking game that chews 3-4 yards per carry, a defense that can manufacture enough punts... an overall team that won't have multiple turnovers... limited penalties. We would all love if we had those exceptions that can perform well despite all of these problems... but it's unrealistic.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Just don't understand some of you. In one breath, we can all collectively state that the coaching and playcalling sucks. Then in the next, some will then say that our QBs are really bad.



Semantically speaking, should we not just say that our QBs are not good enough to overcome the coaching and playcalling?

Throw in subpar OL blocking and receivers that don't consistently get open as well. Our QBs are not elite. This is not news to anyone. What they are... one more than the other right now... are capable QBs that are not in a current environment where success is likely.

Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs just will not have good games with what they have had to work with. Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs must have unpredictable playcalling, 3+ seconds of OL protection, a run blocking game that chews 3-4 yards per carry, a defense that can manufacture enough punts... an overall team that won't have multiple turnovers... limited penalties. We would all love if we had those exceptions that can perform well despite all of these problems... but it's unrealistic.

You are right but although they are not elite, they are not CONSISTENT either. They will show signs of talent with great throws and then turn right back around do something that makes you give yourself a "facepalm". Its the nature of the beast, the offense is moving the chains or struggling, 9 times out of 10, you will look to the QB which is why they get the majorities the MVP trophies as well as the majority of the blame. Coaches coach, Players play..it helps to complete a little more than 9 passes when 19 are called. Not always the case but I'm just saying, take advantage of your opportunities, even if they are few and far between, take advantage

As much as I wanted Alex to succeed, because that would have ment that we do not need to spend a draft pick on a QB, it´s over.

He again showed waht we all now, flashes but no consistency, he is scared to make a mistake, and is terribly inconsitent when he´s not in the shoutgun spread.

He needs a change of scenery!

We need a change.

So good bye Alex, and all the best with another team.

Troy has played well when he was not intimidated. Yet he started to look similar to Alex, afraid to make a mistake, afraid to let it go, indecissive.

That´s on the coaching staff, better to say on Singletary.

Quote:
His high school coach told me that he will become the brain of the offensive coordinator no matter who that OC is, which might explain Smith's inconsistency over his six-year career. That's one reason why Smith struggled this year

i dont get that statement...his inconsistency is due to his brain-things???

Originally posted by communist:

Quote:
His high school coach told me that he will become the brain of the offensive coordinator no matter who that OC is, which might explain Smith's inconsistency over his six-year career. That's one reason why Smith struggled this year

i dont get that statement...his inconsistency is due to his brain-things???

Not sure if you are being serious. He's saying ( I think ) that if Alex had ONE consistent offensive coordinator in all of the years he's been here, that he would basically absorb every tactic and tendency of that OC as to make that OC eventually irrelevant. That he would BE the OC on the field. Think: Peyton Manning + Tom Moore. Manning doesn't need his OC anymore.

... instead, SF has given Alex schizophrenia with this OC carousel.

Originally posted by communist:

Quote:
His high school coach told me that he will become the brain of the offensive coordinator no matter who that OC is, which might explain Smith's inconsistency over his six-year career. That's one reason why Smith struggled this year

i dont get that statement...his inconsistency is due to his brain-things???

It means he morphed completely into Jimmy Raye this year.

He was too awful to morph into Mike McCarthy in 2005.
He was on his way to morphing into Norv Turner in 2006.
He was on his way to morphing into Jim Hostler in 2007 until the Rocky Bernard incident.
His morphing ability was down in 2008 and Mike Martz didnt want to morph with him anyway.
He started his morphing process with Raye in mid-2009.

Alex Smith, the mighty morphin totally confused OC Ranger..............

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Pick6:
I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.

For some that is just impossible to do. Their hatred for Alex is to strong. It is almost like they walked in on Alex Smith having a 3some with their mom and their sister while he was jizzing on their faces calling them dirty whores.

Wow, had to be one of the funniest things i've heard all year. LMAO

Originally posted by oldman9er:
Just don't understand some of you. In one breath, we can all collectively state that the coaching and playcalling sucks. Then in the next, some will then say that our QBs are really bad.



Semantically speaking, should we not just say that our QBs are not good enough to overcome the coaching and playcalling?

Throw in subpar OL blocking and receivers that don't consistently get open as well. Our QBs are not elite. This is not news to anyone. What they are... one more than the other right now... are capable QBs that are not in a current environment where success is likely.

Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs just will not have good games with what they have had to work with. Aside from few and rare exceptions, QBs must have unpredictable playcalling, 3+ seconds of OL protection, a run blocking game that chews 3-4 yards per carry, a defense that can manufacture enough punts... an overall team that won't have multiple turnovers... limited penalties. We would all love if we had those exceptions that can perform well despite all of these problems... but it's unrealistic.

I think the difference here is that there is absolutely NO evidence Alex Smith has EVER overcome any flaw on the coaches part. On the other hand. Shuan Hill, JTO (probably the worst), and Troy Smith (vs DEN) have all at one point overcome terrible coaching, game plan and other factors to still execute a critical play that was needed or still come up with some nice plays.

With Alex behind Center, not only do we lose to teams with better records, we repeatedly lose to teams with lesser records or we barely beat them.

Shuan Hill, JTO, and Troy Smith have not once lost to a team with a lesser record or a team we are to beat. They have all, at least once, overcome terrible coaching.

When has Alex Smith EVER overcome a bad gameplan or coaching mistakes? Truth be told, Alex Smith is NOT a consistent QB who does not give the offense a feeling that they can score at any time.

One thing is for sure, this is Alex's chance to "finally" show it. I'm sorry, but considering he has had 47 starts, do you actually think he will show us something he has never shown before on a consistent basis? At least Troy Smith was good for at least one big play a game.

I'm still pissed off at Alex's assessment of himself on what he "thinks" he can do. What was funnier in that quote was that he admitted to not doing those things he "thinks" he can do. Now consider the things he said after the Philly game. Remember him admitting he needs to "throw caution to the wind" but he never followed through. Like I said, he needs to stop with these quotes and show it.

It's just amazing how he actually did it in the Philly game, realized he did it, and still refuses to take those "risks" again. I am quoting "risks" because to any other QB...correction...to 3rd stringers...correction...to 3rd stringers with little to no knowledge of the playbook, those are not considered "risks"; they are considered NFL throws.

For some reason, I have a feeling we see the same old s**t.

Originally posted by oldman9er:
One thing is for sure, this is Alex's chance to "finally" show it. I'm sorry, but considering he has had 47 starts, do you actually think he will show us something he has never shown before on a consistent basis? At least Troy Smith was good for at least one big play a game.

how many times has this been said? alex has been bad for 6 years. why is this now his final shot? his final shot should have been against carolina. i won't be surprised if alex is on our roster next year. the coaches seem to have a crush on him or something.