Troy Smith vs. Alex Smith (Article)

Originally posted by JustaFan45:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
This is the second time that Sing has pulled a QB with a winning record for Alex Smith. In hindsight, it was mistake pulling Hill, as Alex hasnt accomplished much for the team since.

Now we do the same with Troy. What makes you so certain that the results will be different this time as compared to every other time that Alex has come back on the field ?

The season is a wash. Alex Smith FAILED......not in comparison to Troy Smith or David Carr (as a lot of you are keen to compare him to those two), but rather to the rest of the league and what we expected from him. What this time should really be spent on is TALENT EVALUATION. It would have made more sense to assess Troy Smith and see whether or not he could play here as a backup, rather than start Alex so we can get more "wins".

Sing obviously doesnt get it.......and its apparent some of you dont either.

Now we cant fault u for this comment, just make sure tho we put ourselves in that area as well. Anyone who has a comment on the Smith vs. Smith debate has their own outlook on the situation, and in my opinion, neither of us are spot on. Not just Sing, but MJ as well, wanted A. SMith in, so we cant be mad at them. Their the same group that put T. Smith in so, we cant b***h cuz we dont like the current move. And were happy with the one before.

Our problem is what i call smoke screening. Lets be real, u cant be a "true" fan, if u think that the early part of the schedule is the same as the second. Some may not like that fact, but it's true. Some may not like that the early part on we had more Raye, and second half more Johnson. YOu cant even doubt the fact that when something seemed to be working, for some reason we got away from what was working for us.

With our team, tell me u still didnt notice drops. LIke it or not, yes Troy Smith did have many WTF moments. ONly thing was that the luck fell his way, and aint no other way to say it. And thats not a bad thing because sometimes luck can be great when it falls our way.

Point is, the main article was written to those Troy and Alex apologists alike.

NOt too mention if u really watch, why do both players have two forms of each.

Meaning, when u take each out there comfort zone, they both suck unfortunately.
Alex when he becomes a not give a f**k guy, he does pretty damn good. Troy when running that play action, or escaping the pocket, he looks like a watered down version of Vick (not alike because, he cant throw from the pocket or has the speed Vick has).

But when Alex thinks too much, he just looks horrible. And with Troy u turn him into a pocket/shotgun passer, and he just looks uncomfortable, which is why the holding onto the ball too long, and taking tons of sacks.

So i think the article does a pretty good job of stating why deciding to go with Alex instead of Troy.

The article is based on the premise that winning still matters this season. And thats not the case at all. What exactly are we trying to achieve by starting Alex ? A winning record ? Playoff trip ? Superbowl ? Those were all aspirations at the beginning of the season. Regardless of who we played, those expectations were not met. If Alex Smith had shown signs of consistency during that tough stretch, I think a lot of people would have taken his side.......instead, he continued to make the same mistakes he's made in years past. In essence, you cant excuse his bad play because "our schedule was tougher". That was not a limitation we set for him when the season began.

Was he the sole cause behind all our failures ? No, he wasnt. But no one can argue that he was not part of the problem. Now we have to build for the FUTURE. It starts by evaluating who should stay and who should go. I think everyone knows that Alex stands as much chance of staying here as Sing does. If thats the case, then why even bother letting him play ?

^^This is spot on^^

This "tougher vs weaker schedule" thing is just another excuse being used in the so-called "No Excuses" year for Alex! The Alex supporters themselves proclaimed this at the beginning of this season and now their back with their annual Alexcuses!

I can't wait untill the end of the season when we will hear all the excuses why we should bring Alex back as a back-up or how we will suffer from him going to another team and lite it up! LOL!

For somebody who just joined at the end of October you sure know a lot about what people were saying in August.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by JustaFan45:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
This is the second time that Sing has pulled a QB with a winning record for Alex Smith. In hindsight, it was mistake pulling Hill, as Alex hasnt accomplished much for the team since.

Now we do the same with Troy. What makes you so certain that the results will be different this time as compared to every other time that Alex has come back on the field ?

The season is a wash. Alex Smith FAILED......not in comparison to Troy Smith or David Carr (as a lot of you are keen to compare him to those two), but rather to the rest of the league and what we expected from him. What this time should really be spent on is TALENT EVALUATION. It would have made more sense to assess Troy Smith and see whether or not he could play here as a backup, rather than start Alex so we can get more "wins".

Sing obviously doesnt get it.......and its apparent some of you dont either.

Now we cant fault u for this comment, just make sure tho we put ourselves in that area as well. Anyone who has a comment on the Smith vs. Smith debate has their own outlook on the situation, and in my opinion, neither of us are spot on. Not just Sing, but MJ as well, wanted A. SMith in, so we cant be mad at them. Their the same group that put T. Smith in so, we cant b***h cuz we dont like the current move. And were happy with the one before.

Our problem is what i call smoke screening. Lets be real, u cant be a "true" fan, if u think that the early part of the schedule is the same as the second. Some may not like that fact, but it's true. Some may not like that the early part on we had more Raye, and second half more Johnson. YOu cant even doubt the fact that when something seemed to be working, for some reason we got away from what was working for us.

With our team, tell me u still didnt notice drops. LIke it or not, yes Troy Smith did have many WTF moments. ONly thing was that the luck fell his way, and aint no other way to say it. And thats not a bad thing because sometimes luck can be great when it falls our way.

Point is, the main article was written to those Troy and Alex apologists alike.

NOt too mention if u really watch, why do both players have two forms of each.

Meaning, when u take each out there comfort zone, they both suck unfortunately.
Alex when he becomes a not give a f**k guy, he does pretty damn good. Troy when running that play action, or escaping the pocket, he looks like a watered down version of Vick (not alike because, he cant throw from the pocket or has the speed Vick has).

But when Alex thinks too much, he just looks horrible. And with Troy u turn him into a pocket/shotgun passer, and he just looks uncomfortable, which is why the holding onto the ball too long, and taking tons of sacks.

So i think the article does a pretty good job of stating why deciding to go with Alex instead of Troy.

The article is based on the premise that winning still matters this season. And thats not the case at all. What exactly are we trying to achieve by starting Alex ? A winning record ? Playoff trip ? Superbowl ? Those were all aspirations at the beginning of the season. Regardless of who we played, those expectations were not met. If Alex Smith had shown signs of consistency during that tough stretch, I think a lot of people would have taken his side.......instead, he continued to make the same mistakes he's made in years past. In essence, you cant excuse his bad play because "our schedule was tougher". That was not a limitation we set for him when the season began.

Was he the sole cause behind all our failures ? No, he wasnt. But no one can argue that he was not part of the problem. Now we have to build for the FUTURE. It starts by evaluating who should stay and who should go. I think everyone knows that Alex stands as much chance of staying here as Sing does. If thats the case, then why even bother letting him play ?

^^This is spot on^^

This "tougher vs weaker schedule" thing is just another excuse being used in the so-called "No Excuses" year for Alex! The Alex supporters themselves proclaimed this at the beginning of this season and now their back with their annual Alexcuses!

I can't wait untill the end of the season when we will hear all the excuses why we should bring Alex back as a back-up or how we will suffer from him going to another team and lite it up! LOL!

For somebody who just joined at the end of October you sure know a lot about what people were saying in August.

Maybe I always read the WZ threads and other 49er websites b4 I joined or even attended training camp practices where I would see and hear the term " NO EXCUSES."

" The psychological reason entails the threat to Singletary's job. He's hearing about Jon Gruden, he's been informed of the displeasure fans and the media frequently express about his coaching. When anyone is threatened, they close ranks and focus on control. Alex Smith is a safer quarterback; he can be controlled. He'll work within the system. At this stage, that's what a threatened coach wants, whether he knows it or not."


If this is what Singletary wants out of the QB change, then it is futile and pointless. (anymore so than I already think it's futile and pointless because it WILL be the same ole Alex).

To have any chance at all that this change will produce the profound results we have all been waiting for from our QB phoenix, Sing has to relinquish control of everything about the offense. Relinquish control of his conservative philosophy and transition to a wide open passing attack. Yes - totally go against the grain of how you've envisoned the team and against what you've conditioned the offensive unit to do.

Throw caution to the wind with a QB who (on STILL unrealized/ never was -potential) can operate with the whole playbook and throw to all portions of the field. If Singletary is not willing to do that, then why even bother?

Quote:
" The psychological reason entails the threat to Singletary's job. He's hearing about Jon Gruden, he's been informed of the displeasure fans and the media frequently express about his coaching. When anyone is threatened, they close ranks and focus on control. Alex Smith is a safer quarterback; he can be controlled. He'll work within the system. At this stage, that's what a threatened coach wants, whether he knows it or not."

While this makes for great insight and journalism I think it's kind of reading into things a bit much.

I think Sing is just desperate and Johnson basically told him they need to stop doing the same 5 pass plays every game and the only other guy who can "open" the playbook is the other Smith. Sing just went along. But hey...I could be wrong. Maybe it's a control thing. I just dont think Sing is that complicated of a person.


The above quote seems more fitting for Mike NOLAN since he seemed to play all the mind games.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Quote:
" The psychological reason entails the threat to Singletary's job. He's hearing about Jon Gruden, he's been informed of the displeasure fans and the media frequently express about his coaching. When anyone is threatened, they close ranks and focus on control. Alex Smith is a safer quarterback; he can be controlled. He'll work within the system. At this stage, that's what a threatened coach wants, whether he knows it or not."

While this makes for great insight and journalism I think it's kind of reading into things a bit much.

I think Sing is just desperate and Johnson basically told him they need to stop doing the same 5 pass plays every game and the only other guy who can "open" the playbook is the other Smith. Sing just went along. But hey...I could be wrong. Maybe it's a control thing. I just dont think Sing is that complicated of a person.


The above quote seems more fitting for Mike NOLAN since he seemed to play all the mind games.

Yep.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

I agree to an extent. He still could have played better at some points, but given what I saw on the field from the rest of the team, it would've been hard for anyone to do.

Peyton Manning is a PRIME example right now. They can't protect him to save their lives and Manning looks absolutely TERRIBLE. I mean, embarrassing pick sixes left and right, and just throws all over the place. The sudden inaccuracy makes you see how crucial the supporting cast's performance is. Manning can't set his feet to make accurate throws, and often times even if he can set them, he's feeling the pressure and makes a poor decision, or throw, or both.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

No, not "we".

Originally posted by JustaFan45:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by JustaFan45:

Originally posted by ZRF80:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
This is the second time that Sing has pulled a QB with a winning record for Alex Smith. In hindsight, it was mistake pulling Hill, as Alex hasnt accomplished much for the team since.

Now we do the same with Troy. What makes you so certain that the results will be different this time as compared to every other time that Alex has come back on the field ?

The season is a wash. Alex Smith FAILED......not in comparison to Troy Smith or David Carr (as a lot of you are keen to compare him to those two), but rather to the rest of the league and what we expected from him. What this time should really be spent on is TALENT EVALUATION. It would have made more sense to assess Troy Smith and see whether or not he could play here as a backup, rather than start Alex so we can get more "wins".

Sing obviously doesnt get it.......and its apparent some of you dont either.

Now we cant fault u for this comment, just make sure tho we put ourselves in that area as well. Anyone who has a comment on the Smith vs. Smith debate has their own outlook on the situation, and in my opinion, neither of us are spot on. Not just Sing, but MJ as well, wanted A. SMith in, so we cant be mad at them. Their the same group that put T. Smith in so, we cant b***h cuz we dont like the current move. And were happy with the one before.

Our problem is what i call smoke screening. Lets be real, u cant be a "true" fan, if u think that the early part of the schedule is the same as the second. Some may not like that fact, but it's true. Some may not like that the early part on we had more Raye, and second half more Johnson. YOu cant even doubt the fact that when something seemed to be working, for some reason we got away from what was working for us.

With our team, tell me u still didnt notice drops. LIke it or not, yes Troy Smith did have many WTF moments. ONly thing was that the luck fell his way, and aint no other way to say it. And thats not a bad thing because sometimes luck can be great when it falls our way.

Point is, the main article was written to those Troy and Alex apologists alike.

NOt too mention if u really watch, why do both players have two forms of each.

Meaning, when u take each out there comfort zone, they both suck unfortunately.
Alex when he becomes a not give a f**k guy, he does pretty damn good. Troy when running that play action, or escaping the pocket, he looks like a watered down version of Vick (not alike because, he cant throw from the pocket or has the speed Vick has).

But when Alex thinks too much, he just looks horrible. And with Troy u turn him into a pocket/shotgun passer, and he just looks uncomfortable, which is why the holding onto the ball too long, and taking tons of sacks.

So i think the article does a pretty good job of stating why deciding to go with Alex instead of Troy.

The article is based on the premise that winning still matters this season. And thats not the case at all. What exactly are we trying to achieve by starting Alex ? A winning record ? Playoff trip ? Superbowl ? Those were all aspirations at the beginning of the season. Regardless of who we played, those expectations were not met. If Alex Smith had shown signs of consistency during that tough stretch, I think a lot of people would have taken his side.......instead, he continued to make the same mistakes he's made in years past. In essence, you cant excuse his bad play because "our schedule was tougher". That was not a limitation we set for him when the season began.

Was he the sole cause behind all our failures ? No, he wasnt. But no one can argue that he was not part of the problem. Now we have to build for the FUTURE. It starts by evaluating who should stay and who should go. I think everyone knows that Alex stands as much chance of staying here as Sing does. If thats the case, then why even bother letting him play ?

^^This is spot on^^

This "tougher vs weaker schedule" thing is just another excuse being used in the so-called "No Excuses" year for Alex! The Alex supporters themselves proclaimed this at the beginning of this season and now their back with their annual Alexcuses!

I can't wait untill the end of the season when we will hear all the excuses why we should bring Alex back as a back-up or how we will suffer from him going to another team and lite it up! LOL!

For somebody who just joined at the end of October you sure know a lot about what people were saying in August.

Maybe I always read the WZ threads and other 49er websites b4 I joined or even attended training camp practices where I would see and hear the term " NO EXCUSES."

No excuses...but the season isn't over yet either. I was one of those voices that said this season is it. I never said the first 6 games are it.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

I agree to an extent. He still could have played better at some points, but given what I saw on the field from the rest of the team, it would've been hard for anyone to do.

Peyton Manning is a PRIME example right now. They can't protect him to save their lives and Manning looks absolutely TERRIBLE. I mean, embarrassing pick sixes left and right, and just throws all over the place. The sudden inaccuracy makes you see how crucial the supporting cast's performance is. Manning can't set his feet to make accurate throws, and often times even if he can set them, he's feeling the pressure and makes a poor decision, or throw, or both.

Now imagine what happens to a 21 year old's QB brain when he's constantly getting defender's hands on him in under 3 seconds during his infant years of development...

Oh, that's right... you don't have to imagine. We were front row for years.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

I agree to an extent. He still could have played better at some points, but given what I saw on the field from the rest of the team, it would've been hard for anyone to do.

Peyton Manning is a PRIME example right now. They can't protect him to save their lives and Manning looks absolutely TERRIBLE. I mean, embarrassing pick sixes left and right, and just throws all over the place. The sudden inaccuracy makes you see how crucial the supporting cast's performance is. Manning can't set his feet to make accurate throws, and often times even if he can set them, he's feeling the pressure and makes a poor decision, or throw, or both.

Now imagine what happens to a 21 year old's QB brain when he's constantly getting defender's hands on him in under 3 seconds during his infant years of development...

Oh, that's right... you don't have to imagine. We were front row for years.

NO! Alex just sux and he has small hands

Just wanted to see what it felt like...

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

So THIS! Been saying this for a while. Wish I could just put it in a sig or avy here.

This is one of the few times I have actually agreed with Maddog. Our QB situation won't change just by changing QB's every year. The problem lies within the system and that horrible Oline.

Originally posted by NatralBrnThrila:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

I agree to an extent. He still could have played better at some points, but given what I saw on the field from the rest of the team, it would've been hard for anyone to do.

Peyton Manning is a PRIME example right now. They can't protect him to save their lives and Manning looks absolutely TERRIBLE. I mean, embarrassing pick sixes left and right, and just throws all over the place. The sudden inaccuracy makes you see how crucial the supporting cast's performance is. Manning can't set his feet to make accurate throws, and often times even if he can set them, he's feeling the pressure and makes a poor decision, or throw, or both.

Now imagine what happens to a 21 year old's QB brain when he's constantly getting defender's hands on him in under 3 seconds during his infant years of development...

Oh, that's right... you don't have to imagine. We were front row for years.

NO! Alex just sux and he has small hands

Just wanted to see what it felt like...

Well he definitely does suck and there is no doubt about him having small hands but this coaching staff and system sucks just as much as he does. I just want them to call some aggressive plays and Alex to make some big plays and lead us to a much needed victory. That can't possibly be too much to ask from a coaching staff and 6 year veteran QB in the NFL

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Quote:
" The psychological reason entails the threat to Singletary's job. He's hearing about Jon Gruden, he's been informed of the displeasure fans and the media frequently express about his coaching. When anyone is threatened, they close ranks and focus on control. Alex Smith is a safer quarterback; he can be controlled. He'll work within the system. At this stage, that's what a threatened coach wants, whether he knows it or not."

While this makes for great insight and journalism I think it's kind of reading into things a bit much.

I think Sing is just desperate and Johnson basically told him they need to stop doing the same 5 pass plays every game and the only other guy who can "open" the playbook is the other Smith. Sing just went along. But hey...I could be wrong. Maybe it's a control thing. I just dont think Sing is that complicated of a person.


The above quote seems more fitting for Mike NOLAN since he seemed to play all the mind games.

If this is true then we might actually get to see the 49ers offense without Singeltary's hands holding it back with conservative run the ball with Gore up the middle crap.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
All I take this season about Alex Smith is that the team stunk, the OC stunk, the play calling stunk, the organization stunk, and we still don't know whether he will be a solid NFL quarterback.

I'm not sure more than a handful of NFL QB's could have played well under center this year, in this highly dysfunctional system and team.

So THIS! Been saying this for a while. Wish I could just put it in a sig or avy here.

This is one of the few times I have actually agreed with Maddog. Our QB situation won't change just by changing QB's every year. The problem lies within the system and that horrible Oline.

It's difficult to improve when we keep making a horizontal change at QB. I mean keep putting in third stringers for Alex Smith. Amazingly, they have ALL won more games (percentage) than Smith has during that season.

Now imagine if we actually replace Alex with a QB who has had legitimate success as a starter or understands more than just the game plan that week. Go look at the numbers, Hill, JTO, and Troy all have better winning percentages than Alex Smith. He's just too inconsistent.

I have ZERO problem with this move. Troy Smith really hasn't done anything great... I don't get all the hype. His accuracy is awful... Alex may not be any better, but to think that one is considerably better than the other is just wrong.

Why do I like this move?

Alex Smith will be gone... the only thing that can save him (and Sing) is the Super Bowl IMO. SO now he and Sing are playing for a little something more... not just this season but their career. I am sure Alex will get signed by someone, and depending on the situation I think he has the potential to be decent - in the right situation. HOWEVER... if he comes in now and can lead this team on a run it would definitely improve his chances of signing somewhere else. Plus I think we can open the offense so much more and would not be suprised to see a lot more of a spread type offense especially with Westbrook in the backfield.

I don't forsee either of these guys as the long term solution for the 9ers, but I think if you look at it without prejudice from an unbiased standpoint I think Alex gives us the best chance for success right now.