Why all of the hate on our defense?

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

I agree with this much at least. Our defense has been for the most part underperforming. We can lose sight of that if we wish, thanks to the offensive failures... but still doesn't change the reality that our defense has crapped the bed just as much. Too much talent on the defense for them to have given up what they have. Our DC often gets out-schemed, and we have only rare moments of creative, deceptive play design.

... or it's at least fun and righteous for the fans to spread the hate.

This. And this. And this.

In reality, both units share equal responsibility. They both have stepped up when we won our only two games. They both made critical errors in every game we lost.

Statistically, the defense is better. However, I think they are both under performing due to poor coaching.

There's my righteous hate mongering for you, oldman.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly. The problem with the Niners OLB'ers is that none of them are complete players, thus they have to constantly rotate them in and out in and out. The defense needs complete players. Not one guy who can cover, one guy who can pass rush, one guy who can help out on the run. One guy should be able to do it all. Which also leads to the defense now being predictable. When OC's see LaBoy or Brooks enter the game they already know that neither are gonna drop back into coverage and if they do they will be exposed. that' the main reason the Niners 3-4 doesn't work. B/c the players aren't interchangeable you can't disguise a lot b/c other teams have seen the tape.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly...and to build off the aformentioned, the SAM (strong side) is the side the TE happens to line up over which can be either side. But in reality, Lawson and Haralson flip flop all the time, as do Brooks & LaBoy. Our leading starting OLB has 3 sacks through 8 games in a 3-4 defense which is downright, pathetic! And it isn't Lawson.

Our backups have a collective 5 sacks, the same as our starters. Lawson is used almost exclusively in coverage now, our secondary gets abused b/c we have no pressure from our starting 4 (nor effective scheme) and we think our defensive is at least good against the run which is total B.S. b/c QB's pass for at least 250 yards a game against us...so why run? The one time a team game-planned to run exclusively against us the whole game, we got destroyed (see, KC).

And this is from a defensive unit that has played together under the same coach and essentially, scheme for how many years now?

There are no excuses. Just reality. Sign Lawson!!!!! LMAO

There's hate because the expectations for this defense was to be feared as top 5 elite, instead it became a charity. lol

Our bend but don't break deffence keeps being bent until it breaks in most of the games so far. We are just giving up too many points.

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Pat sucks? Wow, you turned on him quick. If I'm not mistaken he still has pretty good tackle numbers. I don't think Pat is the problem, its everyone else around him.

Originally posted by GorefullBore:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Pat sucks? Wow, you turned on him quick. If I'm not mistaken he still has pretty good tackle numbers. I don't think Pat is the problem, its everyone else around him.

Williscuses! Pat isn't winning games... that's all that matters... so therefore, he sucks!


( see what I did there? )

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly...and to build off the aformentioned, the SAM (strong side) is the side the TE happens to line up over which can be either side. But in reality, Lawson and Haralson flip flop all the time, as do Brooks & LaBoy. Our leading starting OLB has 3 sacks through 8 games in a 3-4 defense which is downright, pathetic! And it isn't Lawson.

Our backups have a collective 5 sacks, the same as our starters. Lawson is used almost exclusively in coverage now, our secondary gets abused b/c we have no pressure from our starting 4 (nor effective scheme) and we think our defensive is at least good against the run which is total B.S. b/c QB's pass for at least 250 yards a game against us...so why run? The one time a team game-planned to run exclusively against us the whole game, we got destroyed (see, KC).

And this is from a defensive unit that has played together under the same coach and essentially, scheme for how many years now?

There are no excuses. Just reality. Sign Lawson!!!!! LMAO

If we went to a 4-3, I'd re-sign Lawson. Him and Willis would be beastly in a 4-3 running around making plays. We could do all kinds of zone blitzes with Brooks as a DE and dropping him back in coverage while sending Willis, Bowman, or Lawson. It would be pretty sick. Our other DE could be a rotation of Smith and McDonald. We could have RJF and Sopoaga inside and even rotate Smith and McDonald inside as well.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly...and to build off the aformentioned, the SAM (strong side) is the side the TE happens to line up over which can be either side. But in reality, Lawson and Haralson flip flop all the time, as do Brooks & LaBoy. Our leading starting OLB has 3 sacks through 8 games in a 3-4 defense which is downright, pathetic! And it isn't Lawson.

Our backups have a collective 5 sacks, the same as our starters. Lawson is used almost exclusively in coverage now, our secondary gets abused b/c we have no pressure from our starting 4 (nor effective scheme) and we think our defensive is at least good against the run which is total B.S. b/c QB's pass for at least 250 yards a game against us...so why run? The one time a team game-planned to run exclusively against us the whole game, we got destroyed (see, KC).

And this is from a defensive unit that has played together under the same coach and essentially, scheme for how many years now?

There are no excuses. Just reality. Sign Lawson!!!!! LMAO

If we went to a 4-3, I'd re-sign Lawson. Him and Willis would be beastly in a 4-3 running around making plays. We could do all kinds of zone blitzes with Brooks as a DE and dropping him back in coverage while sending Willis, Bowman, or Lawson. It would be pretty sick. Our other DE could be a rotation of Smith and McDonald. We could have RJF and Sopoaga inside and even rotate Smith and McDonald inside as well.

I agree switching a 4-3 would probably make more sense. But we would have to get a couple of legit ends.

Originally posted by susweel:


Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Lawson got that monster hit on Orton playing from the weak side.

Also, we all need to stop assuming we know anything about what is expected from a position in the scheme our defense is playing. We could argue it all day, but fact remains that different schemes ask for different things. Some 3-4 coaches ask the strong side guy to be better against the run and in pass protection and minimize the importance of pass rush. Some coaches want choose to ignore traditional defensive strategy (right side of offense is the strong running side) and choose instead to use confusion and movement to get pressure, in these schemes it's less important that either OLB be elite rushing the passer. Then there are coaches who have great GMs and are great coaches and get linebackers who can do it all to play both sides rushing the passer and stopping the run... f**king Steelers.

I don't care where the pass rush comes from any more. I just want some.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly...and to build off the aformentioned, the SAM (strong side) is the side the TE happens to line up over which can be either side. But in reality, Lawson and Haralson flip flop all the time, as do Brooks & LaBoy. Our leading starting OLB has 3 sacks through 8 games in a 3-4 defense which is downright, pathetic! And it isn't Lawson.

Our backups have a collective 5 sacks, the same as our starters. Lawson is used almost exclusively in coverage now, our secondary gets abused b/c we have no pressure from our starting 4 (nor effective scheme) and we think our defensive is at least good against the run which is total B.S. b/c QB's pass for at least 250 yards a game against us...so why run? The one time a team game-planned to run exclusively against us the whole game, we got destroyed (see, KC).

And this is from a defensive unit that has played together under the same coach and essentially, scheme for how many years now?

There are no excuses. Just reality. Sign Lawson!!!!! LMAO

If we went to a 4-3, I'd re-sign Lawson. Him and Willis would be beastly in a 4-3 running around making plays. We could do all kinds of zone blitzes with Brooks as a DE and dropping him back in coverage while sending Willis, Bowman, or Lawson. It would be pretty sick. Our other DE could be a rotation of Smith and McDonald. We could have RJF and Sopoaga inside and even rotate Smith and McDonald inside as well.

I agree switching a 4-3 would probably make more sense. But we would have to get a couple of legit ends.

I think Brooks, Smith, and McDonald could all rotate at DE. I even think Lawson could as well.

I just want to see Willis in a 4-3 before his window closes, a talent like that deserves to play in that system, it would be immense. The same can be said for Lawson, his athleticism would BEAST in a 4-3.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

I agree with this much at least. Our defense has been for the most part underperforming. We can lose sight of that if we wish, thanks to the offensive failures... but still doesn't change the reality that our defense has crapped the bed just as much. Too much talent on the defense for them to have given up what they have. Our DC often gets out-schemed, and we have only rare moments of creative, deceptive play design.

... or it's at least fun and righteous for the fans to spread the hate.

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. The offense definitely played their part in not helping. But it was in those key few minutes that we couldnt stop when we really needed one. When we played the Saints, Falcons especially. That Saints game was like our last year Vikings game in my opinion.

But all season tho, at crucial times in games, it's like we continue with the 3-4 or prevent defense, and just continue to get burned week in and out. People have tried to downplay the play of our defense all year, but only now, even after Willis said he knows things arent the same, everyone is still looking at the O.

The true test will be what T. Smith, and P. Willy do against the Rams, and 1wk off. The D should be well rested.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by valrod33:
They cant stop anybody at critical moments, and anytime the Offense scores(which is rare, i know) the D always lets the opposing team march right down the field

Patrick Willis sucks.

Clay Matthews gets game planned every week and still makes plays, im tired of these Williscuses

Clay Matthew is unstoppable. Oh to have a OLB like that. and we wonder why the Packers 3-4 in 2 years is already looking better than the niners.

Now thats what a OLB in a 3-4 is supposed to look like. But we are too busy appreciating Manny Lawson.

Doesn't Manny play the other side? I think you mean Parys.

Parys is garbage and we all know that.

Yeah bout Wolb and Solb are two diff. positions.

Well not really in a 3-4 because thats the mystery behind the defense because you never know who the 4 pass rusher is gonna be. Technically its supposed to interchangeable.

Exactly...and to build off the aformentioned, the SAM (strong side) is the side the TE happens to line up over which can be either side. But in reality, Lawson and Haralson flip flop all the time, as do Brooks & LaBoy. Our leading starting OLB has 3 sacks through 8 games in a 3-4 defense which is downright, pathetic! And it isn't Lawson.

Our backups have a collective 5 sacks, the same as our starters. Lawson is used almost exclusively in coverage now, our secondary gets abused b/c we have no pressure from our starting 4 (nor effective scheme) and we think our defensive is at least good against the run which is total B.S. b/c QB's pass for at least 250 yards a game against us...so why run? The one time a team game-planned to run exclusively against us the whole game, we got destroyed (see, KC).

And this is from a defensive unit that has played together under the same coach and essentially, scheme for how many years now?

There are no excuses. Just reality. Sign Lawson!!!!! LMAO

If we went to a 4-3, I'd re-sign Lawson. Him and Willis would be beastly in a 4-3 running around making plays. We could do all kinds of zone blitzes with Brooks as a DE and dropping him back in coverage while sending Willis, Bowman, or Lawson. It would be pretty sick. Our other DE could be a rotation of Smith and McDonald. We could have RJF and Sopoaga inside and even rotate Smith and McDonald inside as well.

I would too! Having at least one or two dominant pass rushers would free up Willis, Lawson and perhaps TKO or who ever else would be the third LB to just read ad react and play to their athleticism while the d-line ties up the running game. Lawson essentially is a safety in our defense anyhow...plays in the box, makes tackles and covers down field. Manusky already uses his OLB's as DE's at the LOS anyhow so why not just DO it with a Brooks, Haralson, Smith and rotate others until you've found your starters and rotation. Inside should be covered with what we have. Manusky plays ultra vanilla and predictable and conservative so we might as well just play a 4-3 where the offense knows the pass rush will come off the DE positions and the LB's will be either chasing down RB's or in coverage? The secondary will continue to be suspect until we get true pass rushers in any scheme. And since Manusky doesn't have the balls to try out Brooks/LaBoy and stick with his conservative scheme and players, why not?