ESPN: Sam Bradford best in NFC West for 3rd down passing, Alex Smith worst

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

I saw these stats online---for the 2009 season--sort of interesting---the Niners didn't have many 10+ play TD drives--you would think we would since that is the type of offense we try to play---but we score better with the big play drives--even though that isn't the staple of the offense.

The Niners at 11% were the lowest in the NFL--teams scoring TD's on 10+ play drives--I was surprised.


Team
TDs
Average Plays per TD drive
% TD drives with 10+ plays
% TD drives with 0-3 plays--quick strike

ARI 43 6.6 14% 19%
ATL 41 8.4 44% 20%
BAL 43 6.6 16% 14%
BUF 23 5.4 13% 35%
CAR 34 6.9 21% 21%
CHI 33 6.6 21% 15%
CIN 30 9.0 50% 7%
CLE 21 7.1 24% 19%
DAL 40 6.6 13% 20%
DEN 30 6.4 23% 27%
DET 25 7.1 28% 16%
GB 50 6.1 12% 20%
HOU 42 7.5 31% 14%
IND 50 7.8 30% 8%
JAC 34 7.9 41% 15%
KC 26 6.7 19% 15%
MIA 37 8.9 46% 16%
MIN 53 7.6 30% 8%
NE 47 7.1 26% 17%
NO 55 7.0 24% 20%
NYG 42 6.8 21% 19%
NYJ 33 6.0 24% 18%
OAK 17 7.5 35% 18%
PHI 41 5.5 15% 32%
PIT 38 7.2 26% 11%
SD 46 7.3 22% 15%
SEA 27 6.9 22% 15%
SF 35 5.9 11% 20%
STL 16 8.3 31% 0%
TB 23 6.5 30% 30%
TEN 35 7.1 23% 17%
WAS 29 7.6 28% 14%
NFL 35.6 7.0 25.% 17.%

Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
I saw these stats online---for the 2009 season--sort of interesting---the Niners didn't have many 10+ play TD drives--you would think we would since that is the type of offense we try to play---but we score better with the big play drives--even though that isn't the staple of the offense.

The Niners at 11% were the lowest in the NFL--teams scoring TD's on 10+ play drives--I was surprised.


Team
TDs
Average Plays per TD drive
% TD drives with 10+ plays
% TD drives with 0-3 plays--quick strike

ARI 43 6.6 14% 19%
ATL 41 8.4 44% 20%
BAL 43 6.6 16% 14%
BUF 23 5.4 13% 35%
CAR 34 6.9 21% 21%
CHI 33 6.6 21% 15%
CIN 30 9.0 50% 7%
CLE 21 7.1 24% 19%
DAL 40 6.6 13% 20%
DEN 30 6.4 23% 27%
DET 25 7.1 28% 16%
GB 50 6.1 12% 20%
HOU 42 7.5 31% 14%
IND 50 7.8 30% 8%
JAC 34 7.9 41% 15%
KC 26 6.7 19% 15%
MIA 37 8.9 46% 16%
MIN 53 7.6 30% 8%
NE 47 7.1 26% 17%
NO 55 7.0 24% 20%
NYG 42 6.8 21% 19%
NYJ 33 6.0 24% 18%
OAK 17 7.5 35% 18%
PHI 41 5.5 15% 32%
PIT 38 7.2 26% 11%
SD 46 7.3 22% 15%
SEA 27 6.9 22% 15%
SF 35 5.9 11% 20%
STL 16 8.3 31% 0%
TB 23 6.5 30% 30%
TEN 35 7.1 23% 17%
WAS 29 7.6 28% 14%
NFL 35.6 7.0 25.% 17.%

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

Again with the playcalling. After seeing Troy throw more quick slants than we have seen in years, I'm thinking coaches call plays to the ability of the QB. Why did we keep seeing Alex throw the same types of routes over and over? He had say in the plays he was most comfortable.

It's getting more and more obvious that Alex has more limitations than some of us thought. It was even mentioned las year that the only skill he had greater than Hill was his arm strengh. He's just not very good.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

Again with the playcalling. After seeing Troy throw more quick slants than we have seen in years, I'm thinking coaches call plays to the ability of the QB. Why did we keep seeing Alex throw the same types of routes over and over? He had say in the plays he was most comfortable.

It's getting more and more obvious that Alex has more limitations than some of us thought. It was even mentioned las year that the only skill he had greater than Hill was his arm strengh. He's just not very good.

Yeah I didn't even care to respond to that. It was just a giant lame excuse. McCarthy was an exception yet Raye-esque...blah blah blah...got coaches late...blah blah blah.

Geezus when will people just come to the conclusion that Alex Smith sucks now, sucked when he was drafted, and will probably always suck.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

Again with the playcalling. After seeing Troy throw more quick slants than we have seen in years, I'm thinking coaches call plays to the ability of the QB. Why did we keep seeing Alex throw the same types of routes over and over? He had say in the plays he was most comfortable.

It's getting more and more obvious that Alex has more limitations than some of us thought. It was even mentioned las year that the only skill he had greater than Hill was his arm strengh. He's just not very good.

Yeah I didn't even care to respond to that. It was just a giant lame excuse. McCarthy was an exception yet Raye-esque...blah blah blah...got coaches late...blah blah blah.

Geezus when will people just come to the conclusion that Alex Smith sucks now, sucked when he was drafted, and will probably always suck.

You are ignoring some obvious things about the influence of coaching.

I'll leave it with a reminder I am on record in many threads that I do not expect Alex Smith to be here next year. Either he leaves on his own, or is not offered a new deal...either way, I am fine with that. In the meantime, if we get Singletary redux next year, it will be doomed for disappointment. Jed needs to get a new coach in EARLY in the cycle when he can bring in quality assistants that can develop the talent we have here. Lack of player development has plagued this franchise for 10 years. Not just at QB but in almost every position on the team. The 49ers got lucky with Gore and Willis but other than that, there have not been any pleasant surprises that occur when the staff does a good job in development. We have guys like Lawson and Brown and Goldson and Balmer and on and on, that were well-regarded out of college but have been stuck at the same level since arriving here.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

Again with the playcalling. After seeing Troy throw more quick slants than we have seen in years, I'm thinking coaches call plays to the ability of the QB. Why did we keep seeing Alex throw the same types of routes over and over? He had say in the plays he was most comfortable.

It's getting more and more obvious that Alex has more limitations than some of us thought. It was even mentioned las year that the only skill he had greater than Hill was his arm strengh. He's just not very good.

Yeah I didn't even care to respond to that. It was just a giant lame excuse. McCarthy was an exception yet Raye-esque...blah blah blah...got coaches late...blah blah blah.

Geezus when will people just come to the conclusion that Alex Smith sucks now, sucked when he was drafted, and will probably always suck.

You are ignoring some obvious things about the influence of coaching.

I'll leave it with a reminder I am on record in many threads that I do not expect Alex Smith to be here next year. Either he leaves on his own, or is not offered a new deal...either way, I am fine with that. In the meantime, if we get Singletary redux next year, it will be doomed for disappointment. Jed needs to get a new coach in EARLY in the cycle when he can bring in quality assistants that can develop the talent we have here. Lack of player development has plagued this franchise for 10 years. Not just at QB but in almost every position on the team. The 49ers got lucky with Gore and Willis but other than that, there have not been any pleasant surprises that occur when the staff does a good job in development. We have guys like Lawson and Brown and Goldson and Balmer and on and on, that were well-regarded out of college but have been stuck at the same level since arriving here.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I also think Smith made a lot of his coaches look worse than they were/are. He had a bigger hand in his failure than poor coaching. IMO, he had great coaching early on.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Sam Bradford - 101.2 passer rating on third downs
Matt Hasselbeck - 76.5
Derek Anderson - 63.6
Max Hall - 55.1
Alex Smith - 54.8

Troy Smith is not ranked because he does not have enough stats to be meaningful.

Oh, and Shaun Hill is 88.7 in third down passer rating with the Lions this year.

link to ESPN analysis

this is a great stat to stare at and realize that we have issues, thanks. but what sucks is your planted smiley face. see, this is the kinda gloating that sucks. BTW i am not an alex fan or hater.

Biggest difference is that though the Rams have Steven Jackson, though don't always run him up the gut on first and second downs and then expect the QB to bail them out on 3rd down. The play calling itself has been the biggest problem on 3rd down, not the QB.
The Rams are a MUCH better team than most Niner fans here realize. I fear the next game against them may not go well. Their defense is VERY good - designed by one of the best defensive minds in the game. Spag is also bright enough to turn the offense over to Andy Reid disciple Pat Shurmur. They are playing very well and should not be taken lightly. It will be a BIG win if the 49ers beat them.

Really?? Then explain the other QB's ahead of Alex??

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Sam Bradford - 101.2 passer rating on third downs
Matt Hasselbeck - 76.5
Derek Anderson - 63.6
Max Hall - 55.1
Alex Smith - 54.8

Troy Smith is not ranked because he does not have enough stats to be meaningful.

Oh, and Shaun Hill is 88.7 in third down passer rating with the Lions this year.

link to ESPN analysis

this is a great stat to stare at and realize that we have issues, thanks. but what sucks is your planted smiley face. see, this is the kinda gloating that sucks. BTW i am not an alex fan or hater.

Biggest difference is that though the Rams have Steven Jackson, though don't always run him up the gut on first and second downs and then expect the QB to bail them out on 3rd down. The play calling itself has been the biggest problem on 3rd down, not the QB.
The Rams are a MUCH better team than most Niner fans here realize. I fear the next game against them may not go well. Their defense is VERY good - designed by one of the best defensive minds in the game. Spag is also bright enough to turn the offense over to Andy Reid disciple Pat Shurmur. They are playing very well and should not be taken lightly. It will be a BIG win if the 49ers beat them.

Really?? Then explain the other QB's ahead of Alex??

My comment was in reference to Bradford's 3rd down rating within the division.

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Just glad this is his last year in SF. So tired of this guy holding our team back.

Any half competent team would have moved on by now.

In a rather perverse way, I would like to see everything about this team remain the same next year except Alex Smith be gone.

Sam Bradford and the Rams are a good example of what can happen with an aggressive defensive-minded HC who hires an experienced OC with a strong passing background and creative play calling ability...and brings in a solid QB coach.

Another interesting thing Spag has done in St Louis is to hire Nolan Cromwell, a former safety who had a Pro Bowl level career to coach WRs. Who better to teach receivers who to beat a defensive back than a former defensive back that knows just when and where a DB is vulnerable.

Bradford is a long way from a finished product but he has a lot more going for him right now in the way of quality coaching than Alex Smith ever had in his time here.

I don't doubt he's getting better coaching AT THE MOMENT but Smith was surrounded by experienced football guys when he came into the NFL and still sucked. The talent level on the Rams is extremely comparable to our 2005 team as well. The guy just never developed.

You also can't sit there and tell me that the reason why Bradford is playing well has nothing to do with...Bradford himself. He's just a naturally more talented QB than Smith and so he's able to pick the game up light years faster (he's already more football savvy).

In any case, Smith sucks (I'm sure we all agree on this by now) and will be gone next year so the argument will be moot soon.

IMO, he's already earned the "bust" label but it won't be official til we let him walk this offseason (along with Singletary, Johnson, and whoever else had a hand in this mess).

I think you need to go back and review who Nolan brought in and their credentials.

To review, it was a MAJOR point of criticism of John York that he waited until the last minute in the coach hiring derby to sign Mike Nolan. That criticism led to even greater criticism with the recognition that almost all of the better position coaching talent around the was already committed to other teams as a result of York waiting so long to decide on Nolan. The result was, not only was the level of player talent expansion grade or less, so was the quality of the coaching.

Mike McCarthy proved to be the one exception but he was widely ridiculed for play calling that looked very Raye-esque. Consequently most 49er fans were shocked when GB tapped him for HC...and I think we can all remember the procession that has followed that exodus.

So I will agree that Bradford is playing better than a lot of people thought, but the evidence that the coaching in St Louis right now being better than when Smith came to the 49ers is indisputable. Spag is a more well-rounded coach than Nolan. Shurmur is already being talked about as a future HC candidate (being an Andy Reid disciple) and Richard Curl is a more experienced QB coach than anyone the 49ers have had here since Nolan arrived.

My only goal in all this is to send a message to all those who think Alex Smith is the ONLY thing keeping this team from the playoffs that they prepare to be disappointed if he is gone next year and Singletary is still here. There is much more to it than that.

Again with the playcalling. After seeing Troy throw more quick slants than we have seen in years, I'm thinking coaches call plays to the ability of the QB. Why did we keep seeing Alex throw the same types of routes over and over? He had say in the plays he was most comfortable.

It's getting more and more obvious that Alex has more limitations than some of us thought. It was even mentioned las year that the only skill he had greater than Hill was his arm strengh. He's just not very good.

Yeah I didn't even care to respond to that. It was just a giant lame excuse. McCarthy was an exception yet Raye-esque...blah blah blah...got coaches late...blah blah blah.

Geezus when will people just come to the conclusion that Alex Smith sucks now, sucked when he was drafted, and will probably always suck.

You are ignoring some obvious things about the influence of coaching.

I'll leave it with a reminder I am on record in many threads that I do not expect Alex Smith to be here next year. Either he leaves on his own, or is not offered a new deal...either way, I am fine with that. In the meantime, if we get Singletary redux next year, it will be doomed for disappointment. Jed needs to get a new coach in EARLY in the cycle when he can bring in quality assistants that can develop the talent we have here. Lack of player development has plagued this franchise for 10 years. Not just at QB but in almost every position on the team. The 49ers got lucky with Gore and Willis but other than that, there have not been any pleasant surprises that occur when the staff does a good job in development. We have guys like Lawson and Brown and Goldson and Balmer and on and on, that were well-regarded out of college but have been stuck at the same level since arriving here.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I also think Smith made a lot of his coaches look worse than they were/are. He had a bigger hand in his failure than poor coaching. IMO, he had great coaching early on.

We will just disagree on that.

No one will know the definitive answer until next season when he is with another team. If he winds up on a good offensive team with solid coaching and begins to play back to his college resume, then we will know it was more coaching than anything else. OTOH, if he is the same player next year then we can certainly write him off as a total failure.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Sam Bradford - 101.2 passer rating on third downs
Matt Hasselbeck - 76.5
Derek Anderson - 63.6
Max Hall - 55.1
Alex Smith - 54.8

Troy Smith is not ranked because he does not have enough stats to be meaningful.

Oh, and Shaun Hill is 88.7 in third down passer rating with the Lions this year.

link to ESPN analysis

this is a great stat to stare at and realize that we have issues, thanks. but what sucks is your planted smiley face. see, this is the kinda gloating that sucks. BTW i am not an alex fan or hater.

Biggest difference is that though the Rams have Steven Jackson, though don't always run him up the gut on first and second downs and then expect the QB to bail them out on 3rd down. The play calling itself has been the biggest problem on 3rd down, not the QB.
The Rams are a MUCH better team than most Niner fans here realize. I fear the next game against them may not go well. Their defense is VERY good - designed by one of the best defensive minds in the game. Spag is also bright enough to turn the offense over to Andy Reid disciple Pat Shurmur. They are playing very well and should not be taken lightly. It will be a BIG win if the 49ers beat them.

Really?? Then explain the other QB's ahead of Alex??

My comment was in reference to Bradford's 3rd down rating within the division.

I see where you are going with your comments. It's true we have bad play calling on 1st and 2nd downs. However, someone else posted that Bradford has poor 1st and 10 passer rating, therefore they aren't getting very far with their passes before third down either. Jackson and Gore are probably fairly equivalent on yards per carry, so I think that cancels each other out. I think what it probably comes down to is that third down is a clutch down that requires a clutch QB. The data would suggest that Bradford the rookie seems to step up in the clutch while Alex the veteran seems to roll right in the clutch and throw out of bounds, incomplete, or to the other team.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 76Razor:

Originally posted by Shaj:
Sam Bradford - 101.2 passer rating on third downs
Matt Hasselbeck - 76.5
Derek Anderson - 63.6
Max Hall - 55.1
Alex Smith - 54.8

Troy Smith is not ranked because he does not have enough stats to be meaningful.

Oh, and Shaun Hill is 88.7 in third down passer rating with the Lions this year.

link to ESPN analysis

this is a great stat to stare at and realize that we have issues, thanks. but what sucks is your planted smiley face. see, this is the kinda gloating that sucks. BTW i am not an alex fan or hater.

Biggest difference is that though the Rams have Steven Jackson, though don't always run him up the gut on first and second downs and then expect the QB to bail them out on 3rd down. The play calling itself has been the biggest problem on 3rd down, not the QB.
The Rams are a MUCH better team than most Niner fans here realize. I fear the next game against them may not go well. Their defense is VERY good - designed by one of the best defensive minds in the game. Spag is also bright enough to turn the offense over to Andy Reid disciple Pat Shurmur. They are playing very well and should not be taken lightly. It will be a BIG win if the 49ers beat them.

Really?? Then explain the other QB's ahead of Alex??

My comment was in reference to Bradford's 3rd down rating within the division.

I see where you are going with your comments. It's true we have bad play calling on 1st and 2nd downs. However, someone else posted that Bradford has poor 1st and 10 passer rating, therefore they aren't getting very far with their passes before third down either. Jackson and Gore are probably fairly equivalent on yards per carry, so I think that cancels each other out. I think what it probably comes down to is that third down is a clutch down that requires a clutch QB. The data would suggest that Bradford the rookie seems to step up in the clutch while Alex the veteran seems to roll right in the clutch and throw out of bounds, incomplete, or to the other team.

Could be.

Of course there is a chicken/egg deal with Danny Amendola, the Rams TE. He reads defenses well and finds open areas in the defense very quickly to provide a target for Bradford. So is it Amendola getting open well or Bradford finding him? We will find out in a couple of weeks.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Bradford = future star

Alex = current bust


/thread

"current bust", lol. Oh, and I agree (but you already knew that )

lol? Language like this is unbecoming of a professor.

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Bradford = future star

Alex = current bust


/thread

"current bust", lol. Oh, and I agree (but you already knew that )

lol? Language like this is unbecoming of a professor.

Students like it more when I use their language and their technology instead of my own. It makes me more "real" to them. So I try to keep up. The zone is pretty much how I do!

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Bradford = future star

Alex = current bust


/thread

"current bust", lol. Oh, and I agree (but you already knew that )

lol? Language like this is unbecoming of a professor.

Students like it more when I use their language and their technology instead of my own. It makes me more "real" to them. So I try to keep up. The zone is pretty much how I do!

probably because it makes you sound like a moron and makes them feel better than you.








j/k