Now that I have rewatched the game...

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

Originally posted by Bayerrya:
The problem with this team is not Alex Smith. His teammates would be the first to tell you. The problem with this team is a lack of an offensive philosophy that fits the personnel we have. That, and we have the worst offensive line in the league.
According to footballoutsiders, we have been stuffed in the backfield on only ten percent of our runs, lowest in the league. But our second level, and open field yards are 30 and 29 respectively. That tells me that Frank is outstanding at making something out of nothing and being able to get back to the line of scrimmage but to consistenly get open field and 2nd level yards you need blockers to open up holes and to press up on linebackers. Last year we were 2nd in open field yards, mainly due to how obscenely good Frank was the few times he got in the open field he took the house(see seattle). His 4.7 ypc compared i cant remember off top but around 2 for Coffee shows just how good Frank was last year. We arent getting those plays this year.
Secondly, offensive philosophy. Everyone knows Alex plays better from the spread, as do most qbs. The problem doesnt lie in how much we run the ball, but WHERE we run the ball. We avg 1.74 yards running sweeps left, 7.02 yards running off tackle left, 3.83 yards running from guard to guard, 5.01 yards running off tackle right and 3.01 yards running sweep left. Based off those numbers where to you think we run the ball most? Yep right up the middle. 66% of the time, second highest in the league. And it was 78% before Raye got fired. The league average is 50%. And where do we run least? Off tackle left of course. Even more than we sweep left, 4% n 6% resp. Look at the numbers from 09 and they were even worse. 3.51 ypc up the middle at 71% of the time. With the line we have, we can run up the middle, yet we try over and over again. To blame Frank or Alex is misplaced, without a decent line, we cant run the sh!t we want to, yet we keep doing it. That is coaching my friends. I like Sing as a motivator. He is by no means and x and o guy and he is completely hands off with the offense. But its his responsibility to hire an offensive coach who can get the job done and he hasnt done that.
I struggled with this all offseason, keep a OC who is terrible or hire another one and have another year without continuity. Well hindsight being what it is, we all know the answer to that one now. I am firmly in the belief with a inventive offensive mind, Alex would be a top 10 quarterback. More than any other Quarterback in the league, even Manning, Alex has to play damn near perfect for us to move the ball. He cant miss any reads, he cant sit in the pocket and wait for something to come open, the line doesnt give him enough time. He would look like Cutler against the NY Giants every week if he wasnt so smart. But he gets criticized for rolling out. If he tries to stay in the pocket he will he injured again. No question. If you want to see a guy take a sack every other play than go ahead and chant for Carr. No qb can play an entire game mistake free, running for his life every other play. Dont know what the numbers are for this year, but last year Alex was pressured on 40 percent of his dropbacks, by far the highest in the league. Im not making excuses for his bonehead mistakes but seriously, look at the rest of the NFL. Other than Manning and Brady every quarterback makes mistakes every week. Other guys are able to pick up the slack tho but the offensive line makes it almost impossible.
The one thing working in our favor is the schedule. Football outsiders has this thing call DVOA. You can look it up for a deeper explanation but basically it charts what each team does in each situation and compares them to the league average to get you a percentage over the average. How this relates to us is, or schedule we have already played is rated 16.3% better than the average. That is over 4% higher than the next closest team. So we have played by FAR the toughest sched in the L so far. Our future sched based on what they have already done this season is -18.0% which means they are 18% worse than the league average. Next closest is KC with 16%. Basically we have played by far the toughest teams so far and have the easiest road the rest of the way out. Granted some of the reason we have played teams with a 16% better than average is due to the fact that we account for 20% of that. But that has nothing to do with how much easier it will be the rest of the way.
There IS hope. Mike J is a bright guy an i already have more faith in him than i did Raye. Alex might be the smartest guy in the whole organization other than Marathe. The key for them is to find the right balance of plays that will get chunk yards, and quick passes, cuz right now we run toooooo many plays that require better blocking than we currently have. The Eagles have the same line problem that we do but inventiveness in playcalling can hide that. Thats what we dont have right now. But Alex is good enough to win in this league. But not by himself. No one but #18 is.

awesome post

beyerrya, I am glad you have become a poster - a breath of fresh air. Excellent analysis.

As for ZRF80, he uses that trite old phrase that Alex plays just good enough to lose. He's wrong. The better axiom would be that Alex plays good enough to win IF the other guys did their job. It is a team game, after all.

On the very last play were A.Smith was getting hurried, hit and threw the INT,










if Smith would've done a spin move and juked the rusher, he would have had a clear field. Yes or no? I only saw one rusher coming in

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
On the very last play were A.Smith was getting hurried, hit and threw the INT,










if Smith would've done a spin move and juked the rusher, he would have had a clear field. Yes or no? I only saw one rusher coming in

Possibly, but if he tries the spin move and fails, it is a sack and game over before they could stop the clock.

Let's get back to actual circumstances; if Nedney hits a gimme field goal, this conversation doesn't exist.

One other "re-watch" bit, Collinsworth pointed out Vernon Davis not turning to look around quickly enough for Smith to get the ball to him on the blitz. We all love Davis but that is a problem he continues to have. He just doesn't sense blitz and what his proper reaction should be. A quarterback needs to have a TE that will be reliable under those situations if the proper pass is to become instinctual with the QB.

Originally posted by excelsior:
beyerrya, I am glad you have become a poster - a breath of fresh air. Excellent analysis.

As for ZRF80, he uses that trite old phrase that Alex plays just good enough to lose. He's wrong. The better axiom would be that Alex plays good enough to win IF the other guys did their job. It is a team game, after all.

I watched it again last night...

A few things on all this Alex Smith stuff.

1) One poster mentioned how he threw three incomplete passes after the fumble and each one was worse than the one before. Thats actually not true. He was his as he threw on the first one, the second was a screen and Gore never turned around, and the third wasn't anywhere near anyone. Not sure if that was a miscommunication or a bad throw.

2) The Niners were really going for it. When it was third and 1, they went for 20. When it was third and 10, they got 20. Whenm it was 3rd and 21, they got 25 (and it was the first thime the Niners had done that since 1997). There is no doubt in my mind that they were going for those so-called "Big Chunks".

Originally posted by dmax:
Its simple...teams found how to double team him...with a safety. Thats how u stop that play

And by doubling him, the defense gives up something else. It's up to the Niners to make the defense pay for the choice. Said adjustments have been slow in coming.

Things they could do:

1. Flood the zone with another couple of receivers.

2. Move Vernon to another section of the field.

3. Depending on the type of coverage....if it's man, use Vernon to clear a section of the field by drawing safety help with him.....bring in someone else to the cleared section of the field.

Originally posted by TonyStarks:
On the very last play were A.Smith was getting hurried, hit and threw the INT,



He tried that earlier in the game (trying to press and make something out of nothing) and you saw the outcome. He is not a running back and had zero time to make your spin move and even if he did but the rusher happens to grab his arm and he fumbles then all hell would come down on him from many haters in the zone.






if Smith would've done a spin move and juked the rusher, he would have had a clear field. Yes or no? I only saw one rusher coming in

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I watched it again last night...

A few things on all this Alex Smith stuff.

1) One poster mentioned how he threw three incomplete passes after the fumble and each one was worse than the one before. Thats actually not true. He was his as he threw on the first one, the second was a screen and Gore never turned around, and the third wasn't anywhere near anyone. Not sure if that was a miscommunication or a bad throw.

2) The Niners were really going for it. When it was third and 1, they went for 20. When it was third and 10, they got 20. Whenm it was 3rd and 21, they got 25 (and it was the first thime the Niners had done that since 1997). There is no doubt in my mind that they were going for those so-called "Big Chunks".

They were getting the big chunks. The next step is the homerun.

Originally posted by Bayerrya:
The problem with this team is not Alex Smith. His teammates would be the first to tell you. The problem with this team is a lack of an offensive philosophy that fits the personnel we have. That, and we have the worst offensive line in the league.

According to footballoutsiders, we have been stuffed in the backfield on only ten percent of our runs, lowest in the league. But our second level, and open field yards are 30 and 29 respectively.

That tells me that Frank is outstanding at making something out of nothing and being able to get back to the line of scrimmage but to consistenly get open field and 2nd level yards you need blockers to open up holes and to press up on linebackers.

Last year we were 2nd in open field yards, mainly due to how obscenely good Frank was the few times he got in the open field he took the house(see seattle). His 4.7 ypc compared i cant remember off top but around 2 for Coffee shows just how good Frank was last year. We arent getting those plays this year.

Secondly, offensive philosophy. Everyone knows Alex plays better from the spread, as do most qbs. The problem doesnt lie in how much we run the ball, but WHERE we run the ball.

We avg 1.74 yards running sweeps left, 7.02 yards running off tackle left, 3.83 yards running from guard to guard, 5.01 yards running off tackle right and 3.01 yards running sweep left. Based off those numbers where to you think we run the ball most?

Yep right up the middle. 66% of the time, second highest in the league. And it was 78% before Raye got fired. The league average is 50%. And where do we run least? Off tackle left of course. Even more than we sweep left, 4% n 6% resp. Look at the numbers from 09 and they were even worse. 3.51 ypc up the middle at 71% of the time. With the line we have, we can run up the middle, yet we try over and over again.

To blame Frank or Alex is misplaced, without a decent line, we cant run the sh!t we want to, yet we keep doing it. That is coaching my friends. I like Sing as a motivator. He is by no means and x and o guy and he is completely hands off with the offense. But its his responsibility to hire an offensive coach who can get the job done and he hasnt done that.

I struggled with this all offseason, keep a OC who is terrible or hire another one and have another year without continuity. Well hindsight being what it is, we all know the answer to that one now. I am firmly in the belief with a inventive offensive mind, Alex would be a top 10 quarterback.

More than any other Quarterback in the league, even Manning, Alex has to play damn near perfect for us to move the ball. He cant miss any reads, he cant sit in the pocket and wait for something to come open, the line doesnt give him enough time. He would look like Cutler against the NY Giants every week if he wasnt so smart. But he gets criticized for rolling out. If he tries to stay in the pocket he will he injured again. No question.

If you want to see a guy take a sack every other play than go ahead and chant for Carr. No qb can play an entire game mistake free, running for his life every other play. Dont know what the numbers are for this year, but last year Alex was pressured on 40 percent of his dropbacks, by far the highest in the league.

Im not making excuses for his bonehead mistakes but seriously, look at the rest of the NFL. Other than Manning and Brady every quarterback makes mistakes every week. Other guys are able to pick up the slack tho but the offensive line makes it almost impossible.

The one thing working in our favor is the schedule. Football outsiders has this thing call DVOA. You can look it up for a deeper explanation but basically it charts what each team does in each situation and compares them to the league average to get you a percentage over the average.

How this relates to us is, or schedule we have already played is rated 16.3% better than the average. That is over 4% higher than the next closest team. So we have played by FAR the toughest sched in the L so far. Our future sched based on what they have already done this season is -18.0% which means they are 18% worse than the league average. Next closest is KC with 16%.

Basically we have played by far the toughest teams so far and have the easiest road the rest of the way out. Granted some of the reason we have played teams with a 16% better than average is due to the fact that we account for 20% of that. But that has nothing to do with how much easier it will be the rest of the way.

There IS hope. Mike J is a bright guy an i already have more faith in him than i did Raye. Alex might be the smartest guy in the whole organization other than Marathe. The key for them is to find the right balance of plays that will get chunk yards, and quick passes, cuz right now we run toooooo many plays that require better blocking than we currently have.

The Eagles have the same line problem that we do but inventiveness in playcalling can hide that. Thats what we dont have right now. But Alex is good enough to win in this league. But not by himself. No one but #18 is.

Sorry, but I had to break it up because I wanted to absorb a great post.

Great job and agree.

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by dmax:
Its simple...teams found how to double team him...with a safety. Thats how u stop that play

And by doubling him, the defense gives up something else. It's up to the Niners to make the defense pay for the choice. Said adjustments have been slow in coming.

Things they could do:

1. Flood the zone with another couple of receivers.

2. Move Vernon to another section of the field.

3. Depending on the type of coverage....if it's man, use Vernon to clear a section of the field by drawing safety help with him.....bring in someone else to the cleared section of the field.

You make them pay by having 3 WRs. This last game was the first time they began to do that with more regularity.

Originally posted by valrod33:
agreed on all points

Originally posted by excelsior:
beyerrya, I am glad you have become a poster - a breath of fresh air. Excellent analysis.

As for ZRF80, he uses that trite old phrase that Alex plays just good enough to lose. He's wrong. The better axiom would be that Alex plays good enough to win IF the other guys did their job. It is a team game, after all.

Dude.....seriously ?

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by silkyjohnson:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by ZRF80:
As someone pointed out in another thread, Alex does just enough to make us lose.

Although his game wasnt as bad as some of his other performances, he was the reason why the came transitioned from winnable (17-10) to impossible (24-10).

This has been one of Alex's setbacks ever since he arrived on the scene. He just isnt capable of getting this team over the hump. As long as the overall team is playing well, Alex seems to compete. But one penalty, one defensive mishap, one dropped pass is all it takes for him to self destruct. As Madden points out, it's a quarterback's league. At some point, your leader has to overcome team mistakes and make a bad situation into a good one.

Alex, unfortunately, rarely does this.

Just signs of a bad team. Think about it how often do you see Brady or Manning put in a bad position. Not sayin Alex is anywhere near the level of those 2 but the guy needs some help and I'm not talking about out the door

Manning was in a bad position throughout his first couple of years, BUT... you could tell he was gonna be good.

You cannot compare Manning to Smith. In Manning's case, he has had Tom Moore, the same OC throughout his career. (now has a Moore protege calling plays with Moore as "offensive consultant) Moore's offense was tailored to take advantage of Peyton's best talents. Moore and Indy brass tailored their drafts to bring in players like Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark who were not only excellent athletes but could also read defenses and make quick, accurate sight adjustments to allow Manning to have an open receiver almost immediately. He also had Tony Dungy, a very bright guy who is also very quarterback friendly. Dungy understood the unique relationship that must exist between a HC and his quarterback.

So far, Alex Smith has had NONE of those things.

The two situations are both prototypes. Indy is about how to develop a quarterback. SF is about how to make sure a quarterback is going to have the maximum number of barriers to success.

You dont think that Manning had anything to do with the development of these guys ? I didnt see any teams jump on Harrison when he was let go from Indy. And Dallas Clark is NOT a probowler without Manning as his QB. QBs make average players look great. They make great players look even better. This is exactly what Manning and Brady (see Deion Branch, see Troy Brown) did with their respective teams.

Sorry, dude. But Alex HAS the players around him to be great. Frank Gore, Brian Westbrook, and Dixon = a monster backfield. If anything, Smith should be lighting up defenders with his arm, forcing them to defend the pass..........THEN allowing Gore and Co. to tear it up with the running game.

Instead, Smith's failed attempt at QBing has allowed teams to pack the box and defend the run. Without a running game, our team is in shambles.