Coaches we need to replace?

Originally posted by Chico:

Quote:


You keep blaming Sully but put no blame on the players themselves. There are loads of players who consistently drop passes every year (see Owens, Terrell as a prime example) yet the WR's coach is not fired for this. In the end Sully is doing his job and Morgan and Crabtree are 2 prime examples as judged by their development.

"When your team is not winning, you don't fire the players, YOU FIRE THE COACH!"

Your proving my point that you are in over your head. Most of the drops were off their hands, so there is little Sully can do but request they stay after practice to spend time working on catching the football (we don't know if he is or isn't doing this or what he is asking of them to improve their hands) but the receivers themselves need to accept responsibility for their drops and show the desire to improve by staying after practice to work on catching the ball (whether the coaches ask you to or not). The receivers have a responsibility in all this and you keep ignoring that fact. Sullivan can't make them catch but he can try to teach them, and we truly don't know what is going on to attempt to improve their pass catching skills.

What we do know is he has made progress with Josh Morgan and Michael Crabtree, that he spent a lot of time with Crabtree to get him up to speed during the bye (and remember originally Crabtree was not supposed to start against Houston but the work he and Sully put in was parlayed into a starting spot). And he has shown progress with other wideouts, see Brandon Lloyd and Antonio Bryant as other examples. Guys like Rasheed Marshall, Marcus Maxwell & Brandon Williams never amounted to anything here or when they left and all had shots with other teams.

What we also know is that, through all the OC changes Sullivan remained. If those OC's truly wanted their guy, the HC would have complied or else they could have refused the job. What we know is he has a proven track record and Singletary has trust in him judging by the fact that he is still here.

What we know is that he is a webzone scapegoat like I stated all along, that a lot of people want to point blame and never put any of it on the GM and scouts for the talent being brought in and for the fact that we invested very little into the position before Crabtree.

Think before you post outlandish statements to which you don't have all the facts next time.



[ Edited by KRS-1 on Jan 20, 2010 at 18:46:08 ]

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Replacing Foerster will help Raye.

I cant believe ppl want him out. We cant keep going down that same street and expect to be a winning team. We need to find some consistency. Raye did ok...and IMO can get better, with some help.

Johnson is up in the air...cuz Alex is still locking up his front leg which makes some of his balls sail. Needs to fix that pronto!!!

ol COACH, ol COACH and ol coach

Originally posted by 9erluv415:

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Replacing Foerster will help Raye.

I cant believe ppl want him out. We cant keep going down that same street and expect to be a winning team. We need to find some consistency. Raye did ok...and IMO can get better, with some help.

Johnson is up in the air...cuz Alex is still locking up his front leg which makes some of his balls sail. Needs to fix that pronto!!!

This proves my point! consistency...5 years of dropped balls and 5 years with no impact receiver and yet people defend Jerry Sullivan??? We consistenty drop balls...these guys are PRO's so there must be some bad coaching going on!

sigh! I'm getting sleepy already

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Dude is ok.

He can adapt to what the fans want to see, and we can be sure he won't jump ship ala Macarthy and Norv

Agreed nobody wants father time as an offensive coordinator

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Chico:

Quote:


You keep blaming Sully but put no blame on the players themselves. There are loads of players who consistently drop passes every year (see Owens, Terrell as a prime example) yet the WR's coach is not fired for this. In the end Sully is doing his job and Morgan and Crabtree are 2 prime examples as judged by their development.

"When your team is not winning, you don't fire the players, YOU FIRE THE COACH!"

Your proving my point that you are in over your head. Most of the drops were off their hands, so there is little Sully can do but request they stay after practice to spend time working on catching the football (we don't know if he is or isn't doing this or what he is asking of them to improve their hands) but the receivers themselves need to accept responsibility for their drops and show the desire to improve by staying after practice to work on catching the ball (whether the coaches ask you to or not). The receivers have a responsibility in all this and you keep ignoring that fact. Sullivan can't make them catch but he can try to teach them, and we truly don't know what is going on to attempt to improve their pass catching skills.

What we do know is he has made progress with Josh Morgan and Michael Crabtree, that he spent a lot of time with Crabtree to get him up to speed during the bye (and remember originally Crabtree was not supposed to start against Houston but the work he and Sully put in was parlayed into a starting spot). And he has shown progress with other wideouts, see Brandon Lloyd and Antonio Bryant as other examples. Guys like Rasheed Marshall, Marcus Maxwell & Brandon Williams never amounted to anything here or when they left and all had shots with other teams.

What we also know is that, through all the OC changes Sullivan remained. If those OC's truly wanted their guy, the HC would have complied or else they could have refused the job. What we know is he has a proven track record and Singletary has trust in him judging by the fact that he is still here.

What we know is that he is a webzone scapegoat like I stated all along, that a lot of people want to point blame and never put any of it on the GM and scouts for the talent being brought in and for the fact that we invested very little into the position before Crabtree.

Think before you post outlandish statements to which you don't have all the facts next time.

If Sully tells them to catch more balls after practice, then he's an idiot. What he needs to do is talk to the QB Coach and get the starting WR's together with the, once again for the thousandth time, new Starting QB and figure out how they will adjust if this doesn't happen or that doesn't happen or discuss with the QB what they like or how their break is different from the other guys break.

Simply saying, "Do this more." isn't good coaching at all. Figuring out HOW to do this better is good coaching.

Vernon would always catch balls with the machine but guess what helped him the most? Martz told him to catch the balls from the machine with one hand. THAT's coaching.

Josh Morgan

Originally posted by Chico:
Chris Forester - O-Line
Jerry Sullivan - WR
Mike Johnson - QB coach

Year after year, these positions fail to produce. Eventually, we have to blame the coaches. I'm giving Jimmy Raye one more year to see what he can do. My biggest question is why we continue to keep Jerry Sullivan when our receivers continuously drop balls?

Thoughts? other position coaches you can think of?

wow what you gonna do fire them? damn didnt know we had the OWNER in here!

Originally posted by OKC49erFan:

Originally posted by Chico:
Chris Forester - O-Line
Jerry Sullivan - WR
Mike Johnson - QB coach

Year after year, these positions fail to produce. Eventually, we have to blame the coaches. I'm giving Jimmy Raye one more year to see what he can do. My biggest question is why we continue to keep Jerry Sullivan when our receivers continuously drop balls?

Thoughts? other position coaches you can think of?

I agree we should look for better coaches to replace Forester and Sullivan... I disagree about Johnson.

Regardless of how you like/hate our QB, I don't see how anyone can deny the
improvement Smith has shown. I don't know if we should be so quick to drop Johnson.

I agree with Foerster, on the fence with Sullivan* and methinks we should keep Johnson.

Maybe we can pick up Cable as an OL coach when he gets canned soon.

* When I was living in MN, the Vikes traded Moss for the #7 pick, a guy named Troy Williamson. They tried every trick in the book to get this guy to catch a football. He couldn't, and despite his 4.3 speed, he was out of the league in (less than?) three years. I don't know that WR coach should take the blame for the inability of an NFL reciever to catch the ball. See ball, catch ball. What else can you instill in somebody?

[ Edited by DertyDonahue on Jan 21, 2010 at 01:13:50 ]

Originally posted by Chico:
Chris Forester - O-Line
Jerry Sullivan - WR
Mike Johnson - QB coach

Year after year, these positions fail to produce. Eventually, we have to blame the coaches. I'm giving Jimmy Raye one more year to see what he can do. My biggest question is why we continue to keep Jerry Sullivan when our receivers continuously drop balls?

Thoughts? other position coaches you can think of?

How are you giving jimmy raye another year? Are you going to be the one to fire him when the time comes next offseason? give me a break, you all want to talk about what you are going to do but you don't have the authority. I'm sure if you did have the power to do so, this franchise would be in a much worse condition. I love all of you Mr. Noitall's, you give me a good laugh every morning when I come home from work.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Chico:

Quote:


You keep blaming Sully but put no blame on the players themselves. There are loads of players who consistently drop passes every year (see Owens, Terrell as a prime example) yet the WR's coach is not fired for this. In the end Sully is doing his job and Morgan and Crabtree are 2 prime examples as judged by their development.

"When your team is not winning, you don't fire the players, YOU FIRE THE COACH!"

Your proving my point that you are in over your head. Most of the drops were off their hands, so there is little Sully can do but request they stay after practice to spend time working on catching the football (we don't know if he is or isn't doing this or what he is asking of them to improve their hands) but the receivers themselves need to accept responsibility for their drops and show the desire to improve by staying after practice to work on catching the ball (whether the coaches ask you to or not). The receivers have a responsibility in all this and you keep ignoring that fact. Sullivan can't make them catch but he can try to teach them, and we truly don't know what is going on to attempt to improve their pass catching skills.

What we do know is he has made progress with Josh Morgan and Michael Crabtree, that he spent a lot of time with Crabtree to get him up to speed during the bye (and remember originally Crabtree was not supposed to start against Houston but the work he and Sully put in was parlayed into a starting spot). And he has shown progress with other wideouts, see Brandon Lloyd and Antonio Bryant as other examples. Guys like Rasheed Marshall, Marcus Maxwell & Brandon Williams never amounted to anything here or when they left and all had shots with other teams.

What we also know is that, through all the OC changes Sullivan remained. If those OC's truly wanted their guy, the HC would have complied or else they could have refused the job. What we know is he has a proven track record and Singletary has trust in him judging by the fact that he is still here.

What we know is that he is a webzone scapegoat like I stated all along, that a lot of people want to point blame and never put any of it on the GM and scouts for the talent being brought in and for the fact that we invested very little into the position before Crabtree.

Think before you post outlandish statements to which you don't have all the facts next time.

If Sully tells them to catch more balls after practice, then he's an idiot. What he needs to do is talk to the QB Coach and get the starting WR's together with the, once again for the thousandth time, new Starting QB and figure out how they will adjust if this doesn't happen or that doesn't happen or discuss with the QB what they like or how their break is different from the other guys break.

Simply saying, "Do this more." isn't good coaching at all. Figuring out HOW to do this better is good coaching.

Vernon would always catch balls with the machine but guess what helped him the most? Martz told him to catch the balls from the machine with one hand. THAT's coaching.

I never said he was, merely trying to get him to understand that the receivers have a responsibility in all this as well. As I said we don't know what Sully has been telling his players, and without this knowledge it's hard to pin the blame solely even at all on Sully.

At the end of the day, the fans use coaches as the scapegoat without insider knowledge as opposed to taking a step back and questioning the scouts and GM for the talent level being acquired at the position and the players for their work ethic and desire to get better and improve on their weaknesses. In some instances we may be able to place blame on coaches, in others not so much.

Knowledge reigns supreme and in the instance of blaming Sullivan and saying he should be fired without insider knowledge is a load of crap from the ever whining supposed faithful.

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by 9erluv415:

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Replacing Foerster will help Raye.

I cant believe ppl want him out. We cant keep going down that same street and expect to be a winning team. We need to find some consistency. Raye did ok...and IMO can get better, with some help.

Johnson is up in the air...cuz Alex is still locking up his front leg which makes some of his balls sail. Needs to fix that pronto!!!

This proves my point! consistency...5 years of dropped balls and 5 years with no impact receiver and yet people defend Jerry Sullivan??? We consistenty drop balls...these guys are PRO's so there must be some bad coaching going on!

sigh! I'm getting sleepy already

Last time I checked there are pro players who have the same problems with drops year in and year out. Terrell Owens comes to mind, been that way his whole career, should every single WR coach who has coached him been fired and exiled from the league ?

Why is there zero heat on Pete Hoener for VD's stone hands ?

The Houston Texans should then fire Larry Kirksey, same man who has coached Rice, T.O., and Jimmy Smith in his career is now coaching Andre Johnson who has 7 drops this year. And it's not only this year that he had started with some dropping some catchable passes.

You can attempt to work on their hands but it doesn't mean they will improve in that area, just like you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

Viva Washington!!

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by 9erluv415:

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Replacing Foerster will help Raye.

I cant believe ppl want him out. We cant keep going down that same street and expect to be a winning team. We need to find some consistency. Raye did ok...and IMO can get better, with some help.

Johnson is up in the air...cuz Alex is still locking up his front leg which makes some of his balls sail. Needs to fix that pronto!!!

This proves my point! consistency...5 years of dropped balls and 5 years with no impact receiver and yet people defend Jerry Sullivan??? We consistenty drop balls...these guys are PRO's so there must be some bad coaching going on!

sigh! I'm getting sleepy already

So once we get rid of Sully, the WRs will start catching the ball?

With the OL, its mainly technique which is on the coach.

U can only do so much to teach someone to catch. You also need to take into account on how accurate the ball was.

Sully has a great track record of grooming good WR's.
Foerster...???

Thank god Foerster is gone!!! Now get rid of Snyder and get a top flight tackle.

[ Edited by 9erluv415 on Jan 21, 2010 at 10:20:29 ]

SWEET! At least one of the guys on my wishlist has been removed! Seeeee... if you whine long enough, people will start listening

Next up - Jerry Sullivan!