Coaches we need to replace?

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Dude is ok.

He can adapt to what the fans want to see, and we can be sure he won't jump ship ala Macarthy and Norv

Originally posted by TonyStarks:

Originally posted by susweel:
Wow, no Jimmy Raye on that list.

Dude is ok.

He can adapt to what the fans want to see, and we can be sure he won't jump ship ala Macarthy and Norv

And you really believe Jimmy Raye was catering the offense based on what the fans wanted to see? Like he woke up one day and called a few season ticket holders, asking how they would like to see the offense run?

Raye modified the offense because it wasn't working. The order likely came down from Singletary, who had grown tired of Raye's predictable game plan.

Fans want to see touchdowns and wins.

And you can bet Raye would take a Head Coaching opportunity if one presented itself. He's has spent his entire life on the offensive side of the ball, so the likelihood of a promotion is slim.

Do you think he is not on top of his receivers every time they are dropping passes ? I'd bet he is the first person in their ear about it. If we benched those guys for dropping passes then you'd all b***h about that. The players are just as much at fault for not catching those passes, Sully is doing his job but he can't go out there and catch the ball for them nor can he put stick em' on their hands. All he can do is ride their asses and work on it as much as he can during practice. It's up to the WR's to put in additional time to work on their hands if they are becoming a problem.
Based on this theory, if Coach Sing continues to lose year after year and he is also known to get in the players face, do we keep him?

The fact is for years our receivers have dropped passes and this year was no different. How many passes did our receivers drop in the Philly game?

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by Chico:
I don't understand why everyone is so high on Jerry Sullivan. Our receivers have dropped so many passes over the years that they are starting to look like Seahawk receivers of the past. Weren't Crabtree and VD at the top of the list in the NFL for dropped passes? How long do we put up with it before we say enough is enough?

Vernon Davis isn't coached by Jerry Sullivan. He's a tight end, so he's coached by Pete Hoener.

Crabtree was 16th in dropped passes in the NFL with 7.

And seeing as last season was Crabtree's first, I find it hard to believe one season is enough.

The problem with fans like you is your disconnect between production and preparation. Coaches prepare players, but players still have to play. Firing a position coach isn't going to fix dropped passes. Should Philadelphia, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh fire their Wide Receivers coaches because of dropped passes as well?

YES!

Since our receivers coach is a future HOF according to you, name a WR of his that has hit 1,000yds? Better yet, name a Pro Bowl receiver he has coached or a HOF receiver he has coached. Name a WR on the 49ers that has hit 1,000 yards?

Originally posted by modninerfan:

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by Allx9er:
johnson is suppose to be an upncomer, who just might be the 1 being groomed to take over OC at some point so why does he have to go?

REPLACE HIM!

isnt johnson the one investigating the possibilities of implementing the spread in some capacity, hes the guy taking the lead on developing davis. even smith has shown some improvement with johnson.

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by Chico:
I don't understand why everyone is so high on Jerry Sullivan. Our receivers have dropped so many passes over the years that they are starting to look like Seahawk receivers of the past. Weren't Crabtree and VD at the top of the list in the NFL for dropped passes? How long do we put up with it before we say enough is enough?

Vernon Davis isn't coached by Jerry Sullivan. He's a tight end, so he's coached by Pete Hoener.

Crabtree was 16th in dropped passes in the NFL with 7.

And seeing as last season was Crabtree's first, I find it hard to believe one season is enough.

The problem with fans like you is your disconnect between production and preparation. Coaches prepare players, but players still have to play. Firing a position coach isn't going to fix dropped passes. Should Philadelphia, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh fire their Wide Receivers coaches because of dropped passes as well?

YES!

Since our receivers coach is a future HOF according to you, name a WR of his that has hit 1,000yds? Better yet, name a Pro Bowl receiver he has coached or a HOF receiver he has coached. Name a WR on the 49ers that has hit 1,000 yards?

1- Sully lobbied the Cards to draft Boldin and was his OC during his rookie year. Go look up the stats from that year that Q produced.

2- Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Anquan Boldin all have been to Pro Bowls under his tutelage.

Now your turn, name a WR that was on this roster that Sully coached that did little to nothing here and went on to have success somewhere else ?

Originally posted by Chico:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by Chico:
I don't understand why everyone is so high on Jerry Sullivan. Our receivers have dropped so many passes over the years that they are starting to look like Seahawk receivers of the past. Weren't Crabtree and VD at the top of the list in the NFL for dropped passes? How long do we put up with it before we say enough is enough?

Vernon Davis isn't coached by Jerry Sullivan. He's a tight end, so he's coached by Pete Hoener.

Crabtree was 16th in dropped passes in the NFL with 7.

And seeing as last season was Crabtree's first, I find it hard to believe one season is enough.

The problem with fans like you is your disconnect between production and preparation. Coaches prepare players, but players still have to play. Firing a position coach isn't going to fix dropped passes. Should Philadelphia, Indianapolis and Pittsburgh fire their Wide Receivers coaches because of dropped passes as well?

YES!

Since our receivers coach is a future HOF according to you, name a WR of his that has hit 1,000yds? Better yet, name a Pro Bowl receiver he has coached or a HOF receiver he has coached. Name a WR on the 49ers that has hit 1,000 yards?

Who said anything about the Hall of Fame? I'm talking about the disconnect you seem to suffer when comparing production and preparation, and you're still citing statistics.

The lack of statistics from the wide receiver position can be directly related to talent at both the Quarterback and Wide Receiver position.

Tim Rattay? Cody Pickett? Trent Dilfer? Chris Weinke? Yeah, good luck coaching up receivers with that kind of talent at the Quarterback position.

One other factor that needs to be discussed regarding V. Davis. He had a lot of drops and and and he had a lot of catches. He had so many catches that he tied the record for TE TD catches. If he continues to develop he will set a new TD record. So something is going well for VD.

Regarding Crabtree. If he is productive next year it will attributed to his skills rather than to Sullivan. So as the talent level goes up we will get to see whether it is Sullivan helping them or the talent level increasing and they do what comes naturally.

So we have a number of scenarios to study. Snyder is either a coaches problem or he is a talent problem. If we increase the talent level all of a sudden a coaches skills go up with it. Snyder is a good backup but not a good starter.

So we will see how everyone does with another talent infusion.

YES!

Since our receivers coach is a future HOF according to you, name a WR of his that has hit 1,000yds? Better yet, name a Pro Bowl receiver he has coached or a HOF receiver he has coached. Name a WR on the 49ers that has hit 1,000 yards?
1- Sully lobbied the Cards to draft Boldin and was his OC during his rookie year. Go look up the stats from that year that Q produced.

2- Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Anquan Boldin all have been to Pro Bowls under his tutelage.

Now your turn, name a WR that was on this roster that Sully coached that did little to nothing here and went on to have success somewhere else ?


Anquan Boldin is the only one on that list worth mentioning. But, David Boston, Germaine Crowell??? com'mon man!

and i don't care if any of our WR did anything elsewhere. If he's so good why are they always dropping balls? why i ask...why?

Originally posted by Chico:
Chris Forester - O-Line
Jerry Sullivan - WR
Mike Johnson - QB coach

Year after year, these positions fail to produce. Eventually, we have to blame the coaches. I'm giving Jimmy Raye one more year to see what he can do. My biggest question is why we continue to keep Jerry Sullivan when our receivers continuously drop balls?

Thoughts? other position coaches you can think of?

Drop Mike J from the list and add Raye!

Originally posted by Ninefan56:
One other factor that needs to be discussed regarding V. Davis. He had a lot of drops and and and he had a lot of catches. He had so many catches that he tied the record for TE TD catches. If he continues to develop he will set a new TD record. So something is going well for VD.

Regarding Crabtree. If he is productive next year it will attributed to his skills rather than to Sullivan. So as the talent level goes up we will get to see whether it is Sullivan helping them or the talent level increasing and they do what comes naturally.

So we have a number of scenarios to study. Snyder is either a coaches problem or he is a talent problem. If we increase the talent level all of a sudden a coaches skills go up with it. Snyder is a good backup but not a good starter.

So we will see how everyone does with another talent infusion.

No, Sully will still be credited for working with him on all of the details of his game, and as talented as Crabtree is, the key to getting better for him is learning from an experienced and reputable coach and working hard. They will be spending a lot of time together during OTA's and TC again this year. Sullivan is still the teacher and Crabtree the student. A productive season from campaign from Crabtree will show the hard work he put in to wanting to be better by doing all the little things on and off the field and by listening to his coaches advice (that's Sing, Sully and Raye).

Here are two great quotes on Sully and Crabtree working together :

From back during the OTA's

Quote:
Singletary also said he almost made first-round draft pick Michael Crabtree cry. Singletary found him running routes during the first minicamp and admonished him for running before he was cleared by the medical staff. Crabtree is recovering from off-season foot surgery.

Singletary recounted the conversation he had with his prized rookie.

"'I've got nothing against you. I'm not angry or anything. I just want you to know, you have to do everything the doctors want you to do so that you can get better.' I said, 'I'm not worried about what you can do.' I said, 'I know. We drafted you at No. 10. We know what you can do. We just want to make sure that when you come out here, you're ready to go.' So, he's done the things that he needs to do, spending a lot of time with (receivers coach Jerry] Sullivan. I know Jerry is excited about what he's seeing as well."

From the bye week after he signed :

Quote:
Crabtree and Sullivan, an 18-year veteran and a real stickler for details, would disappear into the film room for hours and then emerge to apply the classroom work to the practice field. Morgan also was on hand to give Crabtree live demonstrations of how routes were run. Alex Smith threw passes one day. Assistant trainer Nate Breske, a former quarterback at Northern State in South Dakota, threw to him the next.

Originally posted by Chico:
YES!

Since our receivers coach is a future HOF according to you, name a WR of his that has hit 1,000yds? Better yet, name a Pro Bowl receiver he has coached or a HOF receiver he has coached. Name a WR on the 49ers that has hit 1,000 yards?

Originally posted by KRS-1:
1- Sully lobbied the Cards to draft Boldin and was his OC during his rookie year. Go look up the stats from that year that Q produced.

2- Anthony Miller, Tony Martin, Herman Moore, Germaine Crowell, David Boston and Anquan Boldin all have been to Pro Bowls under his tutelage.

Now your turn, name a WR that was on this roster that Sully coached that did little to nothing here and went on to have success somewhere else ?

Originally posted by chico:
Anquan Boldin is the only one on that list worth mentioning. But, David Boston, Germaine Crowell??? com'mon man!

and i don't care if any of our WR did anything elsewhere. If he's so good why are they always dropping balls? why i ask...why?

OK, so we know you are a young buck if Q is the only one worth mentioning and you still have a lot to learn if you are going to discredit the fact that when those players played for him they turned in Pro Bowl seasons.

The fact that you are going to brush off what those receivers did elsewhere (which the answer is nothing) shows you are not even going to admit that if you want good production from your WR's then you have to bring in talented and dedicated players at the position, you have to have an OL that can give his QB time to make his reads and a QB that can make those reads and find his receivers. Jerry Sullivan is a WR's coach not Jesus, the man will not turn water into wine. If you want wine give the man grapes.

So there are no more why's or answers to the same question you keep repeating. Go back and read and counter the points being made as opposed to sounding like a CD skipping. Your failure to try and counter any points being made and thinking that a debate is a one way street shows that you are in way over your head.

Quote:
OK, so we know you are a young buck if Q is the only one worth mentioning and you still have a lot to learn if you are going to discredit the fact that when those players played for him they turned in Pro Bowl seasons.

The fact that you are going to brush off what those receivers did elsewhere (which the answer is nothing) shows you are not even going to admit that if you want good production from your WR's then you have to bring in talented and dedicated players at the position, you have to have an OL that can give his QB time to make his reads and a QB that can make those reads and find his receivers. Jerry Sullivan is a WR's coach not Jesus, the man will not turn water into wine. If you want wine give the man grapes.

So there are no more why's or answers to the same question you keep repeating. Go back and read and counter the points being made as opposed to sounding like a CD skipping. Your failure to try and counter any points being made and thinking that a debate is a one way street shows that you are in way over your head.

Quote:


JR has been with us for 5 years and if he's so magical and so great, why do our receivers keep dropping passes? We blame the poor O-line and the terrible QB's but the fact is we have receivers that when Alex throws a nice pass and it hits the receivers in the hands, they consistently drop balls. Maybe our QB's wouldn't look so bad if our receivers could catch.
next?

Originally posted by Chico:

Quote:
OK, so we know you are a young buck if Q is the only one worth mentioning and you still have a lot to learn if you are going to discredit the fact that when those players played for him they turned in Pro Bowl seasons.

The fact that you are going to brush off what those receivers did elsewhere (which the answer is nothing) shows you are not even going to admit that if you want good production from your WR's then you have to bring in talented and dedicated players at the position, you have to have an OL that can give his QB time to make his reads and a QB that can make those reads and find his receivers. Jerry Sullivan is a WR's coach not Jesus, the man will not turn water into wine. If you want wine give the man grapes.

So there are no more why's or answers to the same question you keep repeating. Go back and read and counter the points being made as opposed to sounding like a CD skipping. Your failure to try and counter any points being made and thinking that a debate is a one way street shows that you are in way over your head.

Quote:


JR has been with us for 5 years and if he's so magical and so great, why do our receivers keep dropping passes? We blame the poor O-line and the terrible QB's but the fact is we have receivers that when Alex throws a nice pass and it hits the receivers in the hands, they consistently drop balls. Maybe our QB's wouldn't look so bad if our receivers could catch.
next?

You keep blaming Sully but put no blame on the players themselves. There are loads of players who consistently drop passes every year (see Owens, Terrell as a prime example) yet the WR's coach is not fired for this. In the end Sully is doing his job and Morgan and Crabtree are 2 prime examples as judged by their development.

Quote:


You keep blaming Sully but put no blame on the players themselves. There are loads of players who consistently drop passes every year (see Owens, Terrell as a prime example) yet the WR's coach is not fired for this. In the end Sully is doing his job and Morgan and Crabtree are 2 prime examples as judged by their development.

"When your team is not winning, you don't fire the players, YOU FIRE THE COACH!"