QB Competition

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The idea that either Scott McCloughan or Mike Singletary would risk their jobs by giving the starting QB job to either of the QB's without that QB actually winning the job is so ridiculous it borders on the absurd.If any of you think that,you need to pull your head outta your ass and smell what you are shoveling.I mean to dislike a player on the team is one thing,but to let it into your mind that a guy is going to risk his job just to let an unqualified QB start over a more qualified one is just stupid.

So you disagree with what I said. I disagree with what you said here. Teams take chances on unproven QB's all of the time when they have a serviceable veteran on the bench.

Look, here is why I wrote what I wrote.

1. Up to this point in time both QB's have an equal chance at starting the season according to sing.
* I disagree with this. Past performance will be held against one of these QB's.

2. The idea of two different QB's being equally good up to this point is something to evaluate in itself. How is this possible? One of these two QB's should have the nod of who is starting. Both of these QB's have game tapes to review and judge by real time game situations facing first team defenses.

3. Since both QB's are tied at this point so past game reviews are supposedly off limits to evaluate. So the majority of evaluation will occur during practices and controlled environments. Sing and Scotty are smarter than this. This is where I start to question the validity of the competition. The competition is probably more of a test to see how recovered Alex's shoulder is.

4. At some point one of these two QB's will face the opposing 1st team defenses more than the other during the preseason. This will obscure the evaluation process for both QB's. They guy facing the number 1 defenses more will be given more latitude than the guy facing 2nd and 3rd team guys. Also, preseason defenses are vanilla at best. One of these two QB's will also work with the # 1's more often on the niners offense further making an actual evaluation that much tougher. Aside from a injury the decision has been made IMHO.

[ Edited by fister30 on Jun 27, 2009 at 20:44:42 ]

Originally posted by hopeforniners:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by hopeforniners:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by hopeforniners:
Until, A.Smith shows some sign of football instincts on the field, I will not be convinced about his ability. There are lots of QBs and even regular people in the country who can throw the ball accurately and throw it with velocity, but there are only a few of them who can do so under the pressure of a NFL game.
A.Smith has never shown it and I will not be convinced of his ability to continue being a QB in this league till he has shown as much. Brett Favre and Tom Brady for the longest time did not have stellar WRs. Instead B.Favre actually made the receivers around him look better than the skills the possessed. Once his receivers left him for other teams, they hardly did as well on other teams as they did when they were around him. Tom Brady won multiple Super Bowls without having a single superstar WR.
For all his lack of talent, Hill has atleast shown the ability to be instinctive and make quick decisions. However his lack of talent will be his undoing and will force the 49ers to continue looking every year for a more talented QB and hopefully one with better instincts.
I really hope A.Smith could be trained to have better instincts, but alas no matter what I've heard from other folks I believe you're most likely born with those instincts and you can be trained to improve it.

I guess you missed the shehawks game in 2006,you know,the one where Smith scrambled away from a sack and threw a touchdown to Gore?You guys and your selective memory.Even Chris Collingsworth,who hates the niers,said that was a play that only a real nfl quarterback could make.I guess you know more than someone that actually played the game though.I suggest you go to NFL.com search the video highlights for week 14 vs the seahawks in 2006 and then try to explain your bulls**t statement that Smith has never made plays for the niners.No matter who starts for the niners this year ay qb,they have my full support,I am just tired of uninformed posters trying to pass this bulls**t that Smith has never done anything but suck.His ONLY healthy full year,he had a pretty good year despite the general lack of talent surrounding him.If you cannot see past your own prejudice that is your own problem,but your statement stinks like what it is.

One or two plays in >2 playing years does not a quarterback make. If you were to look at that, JTO made a number of them in the beginning of last year, especially when he had more than 300 yards for a few games. But we all agree to how that turned out.
I would have hoped that in atleast 2 years there would be more plays in A.Smith's portfolio than just a few sprinkling of throws over a few games. Even in his first year in Indianapolis, Peyton Manning made a lot of mistakes but showed enough to warrant thoughts of future potential.

Smith only played a full season in 2006,he did not do a bad job given the team surrounding him.My point was not that he is suddenly gonna become the next Peyton Manning,there aren't too many superstar qb's in the NFL.My point is that your saying he has never done anything is just ignorant and factually incorrect.We do not need a qb to play like Peyton Manning for this team to succeed,what we need is the QB that can best execute the offense.I myself do not care what that QB's name is,I want my team to win.This unreasonable hate for Alex Smith though,the kind of hate that leads to the ignorant making unfounded statements like "Smith has never done anything" is not a healthy thing.You should let go of your hate and prejudice and just enjoy that we have enough quarterbacks to have a competition for a change.

I hope to be proven wrong and wish the best to Smith. However I will reserve judgement about his phenomenal OTAs until I have seen him do consistently well for atleast half a season against NFL starters. And I'm not referring to well as purely handing the ball to Gore and having him lead us to victories. I want to see him move the football down the field and make decisions on 3rd down that show that he can be a leader on the field. Once again best of luck to him.

While I agree wit most of what ya stated. The run effestc the pass and vice vera. Gore will get his yardage and at times will prob run more then we pass, no matter who is at qb. The thing to look for is smiths consistency, delivery and accuracy. We have wr's now and there really is no excuse. Hope he proves ya wrong as well. Just don't think your gonna see smith tossing the rock like drew brees 40+ times a game.

Originally posted by frankie:

Originally posted by hopeforniners:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by hopeforniners:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by hopeforniners:
Until, A.Smith shows some sign of football instincts on the field, I will not be convinced about his ability. There are lots of QBs and even regular people in the country who can throw the ball accurately and throw it with velocity, but there are only a few of them who can do so under the pressure of a NFL game.
A.Smith has never shown it and I will not be convinced of his ability to continue being a QB in this league till he has shown as much. Brett Favre and Tom Brady for the longest time did not have stellar WRs. Instead B.Favre actually made the receivers around him look better than the skills the possessed. Once his receivers left him for other teams, they hardly did as well on other teams as they did when they were around him. Tom Brady won multiple Super Bowls without having a single superstar WR.
For all his lack of talent, Hill has atleast shown the ability to be instinctive and make quick decisions. However his lack of talent will be his undoing and will force the 49ers to continue looking every year for a more talented QB and hopefully one with better instincts.
I really hope A.Smith could be trained to have better instincts, but alas no matter what I've heard from other folks I believe you're most likely born with those instincts and you can be trained to improve it.

I guess you missed the shehawks game in 2006,you know,the one where Smith scrambled away from a sack and threw a touchdown to Gore?You guys and your selective memory.Even Chris Collingsworth,who hates the niers,said that was a play that only a real nfl quarterback could make.I guess you know more than someone that actually played the game though.I suggest you go to NFL.com search the video highlights for week 14 vs the seahawks in 2006 and then try to explain your bulls**t statement that Smith has never made plays for the niners.No matter who starts for the niners this year ay qb,they have my full support,I am just tired of uninformed posters trying to pass this bulls**t that Smith has never done anything but suck.His ONLY healthy full year,he had a pretty good year despite the general lack of talent surrounding him.If you cannot see past your own prejudice that is your own problem,but your statement stinks like what it is.

One or two plays in >2 playing years does not a quarterback make. If you were to look at that, JTO made a number of them in the beginning of last year, especially when he had more than 300 yards for a few games. But we all agree to how that turned out.
I would have hoped that in atleast 2 years there would be more plays in A.Smith's portfolio than just a few sprinkling of throws over a few games. Even in his first year in Indianapolis, Peyton Manning made a lot of mistakes but showed enough to warrant thoughts of future potential.

Smith only played a full season in 2006,he did not do a bad job given the team surrounding him.My point was not that he is suddenly gonna become the next Peyton Manning,there aren't too many superstar qb's in the NFL.My point is that your saying he has never done anything is just ignorant and factually incorrect.We do not need a qb to play like Peyton Manning for this team to succeed,what we need is the QB that can best execute the offense.I myself do not care what that QB's name is,I want my team to win.This unreasonable hate for Alex Smith though,the kind of hate that leads to the ignorant making unfounded statements like "Smith has never done anything" is not a healthy thing.You should let go of your hate and prejudice and just enjoy that we have enough quarterbacks to have a competition for a change.

I hope to be proven wrong and wish the best to Smith. However I will reserve judgement about his phenomenal OTAs until I have seen him do consistently well for atleast half a season against NFL starters. And I'm not referring to well as purely handing the ball to Gore and having him lead us to victories. I want to see him move the football down the field and make decisions on 3rd down that show that he can be a leader on the field. Once again best of luck to him.

While I agree wit most of what ya stated. The run effestc the pass and vice vera. Gore will get his yardage and at times will prob run more then we pass, no matter who is at qb. The thing to look for is smiths consistency, delivery and accuracy. We have wr's now and there really is no excuse. Hope he proves ya wrong as well. Just don't think your gonna see smith tossing the rock like drew brees 40+ times a game.

While I agree that neither QB will be like Drew Brees, I believe that once our starting QB becomes more comfortable with the offense, our coaches will allow him to open up the playbook and the play calling. Its been stated by both Matt Barrows and Matt Maiocco that the 49ers coaches are giving our QBs more control over the offense. (audibles, check-downs,...) Mike Martz never gave the QB many options. They usually went with whatever play was called no matter what the opposing defense showed. More often than not, that created more turnovers. I look forward to seeing a much improved offense this season if only because this offensive well better fit our players strengths!

Originally posted by hopeforniners:
Until, A.Smith shows some sign of football instincts on the field, I will not be convinced about his ability. There are lots of QBs and even regular people in the country who can throw the ball accurately and throw it with velocity, but there are only a few of them who can do so under the pressure of a NFL game.
A.Smith has never shown it and I will not be convinced of his ability to continue being a QB in this league till he has shown as much. Brett Favre and Tom Brady for the longest time did not have stellar WRs. Instead B.Favre actually made the receivers around him look better than the skills the possessed. Once his receivers left him for other teams, they hardly did as well on other teams as they did when they were around him. Tom Brady won multiple Super Bowls without having a single superstar WR.
For all his lack of talent, Hill has atleast shown the ability to be instinctive and make quick decisions. However his lack of talent will be his undoing and will force the 49ers to continue looking every year for a more talented QB and hopefully one with better instincts.
I really hope A.Smith could be trained to have better instincts, but alas no matter what I've heard from other folks I believe you're most likely born with those instincts and you can be trained to improve it.

Tom Brady didn't need a superstar wr. He's always had 5 or 6 guys who could do it. he also had a great kicker, and the best d. plus solid running backs even 3 deep at some point. Great te's also. And the best oline in the league, cause no buddy could touch brady until finally the giants superbowl. ALSO the greatest Head coach of his time, i say that because nobody could stop manning so he just put ever db on the field he could.

5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers.

There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold.

But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

[ Edited by 49er4eva on Jun 27, 2009 at 22:34:05 ]

Originally posted by 49er4eva:
5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers.

There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold.

But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

Oh don't start this s**t again!!!

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by 49er4eva:
5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers.

There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold.

But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

Oh don't start this s**t again!!!

I know. Whoever wins this i don't care. I just want to see us hit the playoffs this year. I could careless about who is the starting qb as long as that person wins so if alex great if it's hill great. Because im going to screem my head off every second of a game because i love my niners. Mainly i hope to not be yelling at Davis for being a idiot this season.

Originally posted by fister30:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The idea that either Scott McCloughan or Mike Singletary would risk their jobs by giving the starting QB job to either of the QB's without that QB actually winning the job is so ridiculous it borders on the absurd.If any of you think that,you need to pull your head outta your ass and smell what you are shoveling.I mean to dislike a player on the team is one thing,but to let it into your mind that a guy is going to risk his job just to let an unqualified QB start over a more qualified one is just stupid.

So you disagree with what I said. I disagree with what you said here. Teams take chances on unproven QB's all of the time when they have a serviceable veteran on the bench.

Look, here is why I wrote what I wrote.

1. Up to this point in time both QB's have an equal chance at starting the season according to sing.
* I disagree with this. Past performance will be held against one of these QB's.

2. The idea of two different QB's being equally good up to this point is something to evaluate in itself. How is this possible? One of these two QB's should have the nod of who is starting. Both of these QB's have game tapes to review and judge by real time game situations facing first team defenses.

3. Since both QB's are tied at this point so past game reviews are supposedly off limits to evaluate. So the majority of evaluation will occur during practices and controlled environments. Sing and Scotty are smarter than this. This is where I start to question the validity of the competition. The competition is probably more of a test to see how recovered Alex's shoulder is.

4. At some point one of these two QB's will face the opposing 1st team defenses more than the other during the preseason. This will obscure the evaluation process for both QB's. They guy facing the number 1 defenses more will be given more latitude than the guy facing 2nd and 3rd team guys. Also, preseason defenses are vanilla at best. One of these two QB's will also work with the # 1's more often on the niners offense further making an actual evaluation that much tougher. Aside from a injury the decision has been made IMHO.

1. I think that Singletary has said that if the season started today Hill would start,and that Smith would have to clearly outplay him to win the job.That is a fact straight from the mouth of the man.

2.Neither of these qb's have game tape with the offensive weapons that we have now with this same offense,thus the competition.If it were otherwise,why wouldn't have a starter been named yet?I think both of them will get plenty of reps with the first teams in the preseason to see who handles it best.

3. See #2.

4.If the decision has already been made,why not announce who the starter is gonna be already?No point in any subterfuge,so why not give the starter the nod already and give him the whole of the snaps in the preseason with the first team?It makes absolutely no sense to handle things otherwise,if things are as you surmise .If you have some kind of inside info,please share it.

Originally posted by 49er4eva:
5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers.

There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold.

But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

Yeah but he is not choosing a starting QB right now. He will choose one after seeing them both in pre-season. Big difference there.

And if Hill does not look better than Alex "Leaf" (worst comparison ever btw) in preseason then he does not deserve to start regardless of his record.

All Hill has to do is play as good or better than Smith in preseason. Which is kind of ironic because it will the first meaningful game Hill ever plays. First time he plays when there is something actually on the line. I want to see how he performs when there is actually pressure for him to succeed.

And what if Smith does out perform Hill in preseason but Hill still gets the nod because of his 7-3 record. How will he perform with the pressure of an entire season on his shoulders and knowing that the guy on the bench actually played better than him in head to head competition.

Its not a done deal. Hill has a lot to prove as does Smith. And Sing knows this. I say we sit back and let the QB competition run its course. The best man will prove it on the field this preseason.

This QB competition is not based on what these guys have done in the past but what they will be able to do this season.

[ Edited by yoyo49 on Jun 27, 2009 at 22:50:23 ]

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The idea that either Scott McCloughan or Mike Singletary would risk their jobs by giving the starting QB job to either of the QB's without that QB actually winning the job is so ridiculous it borders on the absurd.If any of you think that,you need to pull your head outta your ass and smell what you are shoveling.I mean to dislike a player on the team is one thing,but to let it into your mind that a guy is going to risk his job just to let an unqualified QB start over a more qualified one is just stupid.

Nolan and Scott did that for 3+ years.....NEVER brought in TRUE competition for Alex....and traded away the only QB who ever beat out Alex..... but your right, Nolan should have been Fired a long time ago by risking his job like that......as well as Scott.....who is still with the team and hoping and praying and that Alex pans out.....even if it means holding a roster spot which could go to a QB who would be a great Backup for our Starting QB.....and be there ready, if we need him to win a crucial late season game (if Shaun Hill gets hurt) for us....

don't worry, IMO, everyone here will witness it live during the preseason.....someone is going to out play someone else.....but the one who doesn't deserve the roster spot will still be here with the team.

[ Edited by Afrikan on Jun 27, 2009 at 22:55:22 ]

I have recently noticed a trend in this thread. People are magnifying the significance of Hill and Smith's past performance for what will be the deciding factors for this QB competition.

You guys talk about this like the coaching staff has not been aware of these guys history. as though they have never seen film on these guys or that they have not yet taken this into account.

Coach Sing and company know all this already. This was all taken into consideration when he was named head coach and guess what, he decided to have a QB competition. He looked at the film, took all the stats, highlights, and past performances in consideration and concluded that these two guys will compete for the starting job on the field.

Which means everything in the past is now insignificant. It is no longer about what these guys did in the past but what they will do for this team this year and they have a stage to prove it on.... pre-season.

Only way past performances will be taken into consideration at this point is if both players perform equally. If thats happens then the starting QB will be Hill. But, as things stand right now, the starting QB spot will be awarded to the guy who performs better during Training camp and pre-season.

Its that simple people.

Originally posted by Afrikan:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
The idea that either Scott McCloughan or Mike Singletary would risk their jobs by giving the starting QB job to either of the QB's without that QB actually winning the job is so ridiculous it borders on the absurd.If any of you think that,you need to pull your head outta your ass and smell what you are shoveling.I mean to dislike a player on the team is one thing,but to let it into your mind that a guy is going to risk his job just to let an unqualified QB start over a more qualified one is just stupid.

Nolan and Scott did that for 3+ years.....NEVER brought in TRUE competition for Alex....and traded away the only QB who ever beat out Alex..... but your right, Nolan should have been Fired a long time ago by risking his job like that......as well as Scott.....who is still with the team and hoping and praying and that Alex pans out.....even if it means holding a roster spot which could go to a QB who would be a great Backup for our Starting QB.....and be there ready, if we need him to win a crucial late season game (if Shaun Hill gets hurt) for us....

don't worry, IMO, everyone here will witness it live during the preseason.....someone is going to out play someone else.....but the one who doesn't deserve the roster spot will still be here with the team.

You should be laughing at your own absurdity and ignorance of reality.You think you have it figured out,but you are just spouting nonsense.There is no effing way that these guys pulling down the big bucks are gonna risk their jobs just on a QB that couldn't get the job done.You guys are getting ridiculous with all your conspiracy theories,so let me break it down for you....

The quarterback competition is for real,Smith will have to outplay Hill to get his job back.There is absolutely no advantage to it being a fix as you claim.It makes no sense for them to have a competition if the decision has already been made.I do not see how you even come up with this silly notion,it is laughable to think that there is any kind of reason to handle the situation like that.If the starter was already established why not let him take all the first team snaps to get more time with the other starters?See...your "theory" makes absolutely no sense at all.You are just another factional hater/lover types that cannot get past your prejudice towards a player on your own effing team to see that competition makes everyone involved work harder and get better.You should hope that one of these guys pushes the other to elevate his game to the next level and become a legit starter for our team,because as of right now,we do not have a proven one.

Originally posted by yoyo49:
I have recently noticed a trend in this thread. People are magnifying the significance of Hill and Smith's past performance for what will be the deciding factors for this QB competition.

You guys talk about this like the coaching staff has not been aware of these guys history. as though they have never seen film on these guys or that they have not yet taken this into account.

Coach Sing and company know all this already. This was all taken into consideration when he was named head coach and guess what, he decided to have a QB competition. He looked at the film, took all the stats, highlights, and past performances in consideration and concluded that these two guys will compete for the starting job on the field.

Which means everything in the past is now insignificant. It is no longer about what these guys did in the past but what they will do for this team this year and they have a stage to prove it on.... pre-season.

Only way past performances will be taken into consideration at this point is if both players perform equally. If thats happens then the starting QB will be Hill. But, as things stand right now, the starting QB spot will be awarded to the guy who performs better during Training camp and pre-season.

Its that simple people.

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by 49er4eva:
5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers. There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold. But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

Oh don't start this s**t again!!!

lmao. i feel sorry for you ptulini. there is no reasoning with the 49er fan version of ryan leaf. he hates smith no matter what.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by 49er4eva:
5 years later with over 25 million invested and 3 games of mediocre highlights of Alex Leaf seem to satisfy the Alex Leaf Lovers. There is no argument or debate. Shaun Hill will start. I think the hype is for a possible trade hopefully. Big Mike already stated that if he had to chose a QB right now he would go with Hill. Teammates have more faith in him than the Bust of 2005. We are trying to be like the winning franchise of yesteryear. Alex Leaf does not fit in that mold. But he is such an nice guy so give him a chance

Oh don't start this s**t again!!!

lmao. i feel sorry for you ptulini. there is no reasoning with the 49er fan version of ryan leaf. he hates smith no matter what.

That is cold man, ryan leaf lol