QB Competition

Originally posted by BrodieFan:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
I reckon that Singletary may be non-commital about the QB situation to the public, but in his mind, he has decided that Hill is his man. I do believe that it is Hill's job to lose.-9fA

What's it going to take to convince people around here that Singletary doesn't lie? I'm going to take Mike Singletary at his word until I see him tell a lie. I haven't seen that yet.

Well, we'll see who gets how many reps come training camp now, won't we?

-9fA

I'm with JOECOOL on this, establishing who your QB will be should be your first priority as new head coach. The fact is we have so many issues at that position Sing can't commit to anyone i.e.

Will Smith restructure his contract?
Would Warner have signed?
Who was available in FA
Will Sanchez or Stafford be there at 10"
etc....

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
The problem is we don't know what is required in Raye's offense. We don't even if this whole "power running" team Sings wants us to be will work. Will it be just who makes fewer mistakes or the one who makes more plays? I never want to rule out Alex because he has a chip on his shoulder but I've seen enough of Hill to know that he can carry an offense for now!

You see,the problem is that Sing or Raye have never said they want to be a power running team. They have said they want to be able to run the ball down the throats of the defenses anytime they choose to do that.

They have also said they want to be an almost 50-50 running and passing team.

So we KNOW that the Niners under Sing and Raye will pass quite a bit and will use the TE's and RB's quite a bit to catch passes.

We also KNOW that we will run first to set up the pass (play action baby !).

We know that they want to be able to run for 1st downs on 3rd and 2 or 4th and 1,instead of having to punt all the time in those situations ,like last year under Martz.

So we KNOW that Sing was sooooo upset about being sooooo soft in the power running game last season under Martz that he fired his butt and brought in a OC that believed as he did,that you need to use the TE's and have a "real" fullback etc etc ,if you want to move the chains and get those critical first downs in crunch time .

I for one agree with sing,don't you ?

Yeah definitely, it's just hard to imagine the type of offense we will be next year. I agree with being able to run the ball effectively because we have a 1600 yard running back in our backfield but on the flip side you don't have to be able to run the ball to go far in this league. Arizona couldn't run the ball all year and look what happened. They threw the ball all over the place so they played to their strengths. Since we don't have the same players on offense then let's run and play strong defense.

But if you will look at the Cards a little closer,you will notice that they started commiting to the running game much more in the playoffs than they had in the reg season. That is when they started playing better as a team.
They had a great passing game all year but were really never a playoff caliber team and actually were a horrible team in the 2nd half of the year overall.

When they started running and sticking with the running game (even though they did not have that many more yards per run average) that is when they turned the corner and started winning those playoff games.
How much more effective was Warner and Boldin and Fitts when they actually had the advantage of play action passes,with the defense actually respecting that the Cards had a running game ?

Sing doesn't want to be a 3 yards and a cloud of dust team ,he just wants to be able to have the defenses respecting the run and be able to use that to make the passing game more effective also.
And of course he wants to be able to power for some first downs on 3rd and short or 4th and short,instead of failing in those situations,like we did so often under
Martz.
And it helps greatly to take a lead into the 4th qtr and be able to run the clock out with a power running game and to not be able to be stopped,even when the other team knows that is what you intend to do !

With the signing of Huard. Hill is the starter unless they hopefully dump Alex Leaf and add another vet. If they draft a QB after dumping Leaf then Hill is still the starter. Its his job to lose. They have not as of yet bought anybody in to challenge Hill.

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


But didn't a healthy Smith lead us to a 2-1 record in 07

And didn't that same Smith beat out Hill at the QB position before Martz gave it to JTO

No !
Smith played really bad in those first two games and just went along for the ride.

And Hill was relegated to 3rd string status by Martz,who wanted JTO as the starter and choose Smith over Hill because Hill's arm is not good enough to throw deep all the time as Martz wanted.

Hill was the best PLAYER at QB on the team and JTO was a far better talent than Alex,except he was a turnover machine.

In case you had not noticed ,Martz is gone !

If a miracle happens and Alex actually shows some NFL talent for the first time since coming into the League,then I will be very happy because I am a Niner fan and would be rooting for all the players on the roster to do well.
So IF Alex stays with the Niners,more power to him,I hope he does very well ! But I won't hold my breath,lol.

No Smith helped us win those first two games. If Smith would not have played the way he did we wouldn't have won those games.

Hill does well because teams know very little about him. Just like any back up, the more you see him the worse he plays and the better defenses play against him.

The reason (IMHO) that Hill always ends up as the #3 QB on the depth chart is because our defense knows Hill and they are not surprised about anything he does. That's why he will yet again struggle in preseason. I can also guarantee Huard will look good against our Din preseason.

FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


But didn't a healthy Smith lead us to a 2-1 record in 07

And didn't that same Smith beat out Hill at the QB position before Martz gave it to JTO

No !
Smith played really bad in those first two games and just went along for the ride.

And Hill was relegated to 3rd string status by Martz,who wanted JTO as the starter and choose Smith over Hill because Hill's arm is not good enough to throw deep all the time as Martz wanted.

Hill was the best PLAYER at QB on the team and JTO was a far better talent than Alex,except he was a turnover machine.

In case you had not noticed ,Martz is gone !

If a miracle happens and Alex actually shows some NFL talent for the first time since coming into the League,then I will be very happy because I am a Niner fan and would be rooting for all the players on the roster to do well.
So IF Alex stays with the Niners,more power to him,I hope he does very well ! But I won't hold my breath,lol.

No Smith helped us win those first two games. If Smith would not have played the way he did we wouldn't have won those games.

Hill does well because teams know very little about him. Just like any back up, the more you see him the worse he plays and the better defenses play against him.

The reason (IMHO) that Hill always ends up as the #3 QB on the depth chart is because our defense knows Hill and they are not surprised about anything he does. That's why he will yet again struggle in preseason. I can also guarantee Huard will look good against our Din preseason.

FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

I actually have those first 2 games on video and believe me,Smith was pretty bad in both of them. Of course that is just my opinion (and that of everyone I know ,who watched the games) but I believe that if you have a chance to go back and watch them over again,you would agree with me.

If we do keep Smith then I hope he gets much much better in almost every area of his game or else we are in huge trouble ,if he winds up actually playing in a game.

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


But didn't a healthy Smith lead us to a 2-1 record in 07

And didn't that same Smith beat out Hill at the QB position before Martz gave it to JTO

No !
Smith played really bad in those first two games and just went along for the ride.

And Hill was relegated to 3rd string status by Martz,who wanted JTO as the starter and choose Smith over Hill because Hill's arm is not good enough to throw deep all the time as Martz wanted.

Hill was the best PLAYER at QB on the team and JTO was a far better talent than Alex,except he was a turnover machine.

In case you had not noticed ,Martz is gone !

If a miracle happens and Alex actually shows some NFL talent for the first time since coming into the League,then I will be very happy because I am a Niner fan and would be rooting for all the players on the roster to do well.
So IF Alex stays with the Niners,more power to him,I hope he does very well ! But I won't hold my breath,lol.

No Smith helped us win those first two games. If Smith would not have played the way he did we wouldn't have won those games.

Hill does well because teams know very little about him. Just like any back up, the more you see him the worse he plays and the better defenses play against him.

The reason (IMHO) that Hill always ends up as the #3 QB on the depth chart is because our defense knows Hill and they are not surprised about anything he does. That's why he will yet again struggle in preseason. I can also guarantee Huard will look good against our Din preseason.

FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

I actually have those first 2 games on video and believe me,Smith was pretty bad in both of them. Of course that is just my opinion (and that of everyone I know ,who watched the games) but I believe that if you have a chance to go back and watch them over again,you would agree with me.

If we do keep Smith then I hope he gets much much better in almost every area of his game or else we are in huge trouble ,if he winds up actually playing in a game.

Yeah I remember the drops and the terrible play calling
I also remember how he won the game
1 min in to this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rae4UU7qidk

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:


But didn't a healthy Smith lead us to a 2-1 record in 07

And didn't that same Smith beat out Hill at the QB position before Martz gave it to JTO

No !
Smith played really bad in those first two games and just went along for the ride.

And Hill was relegated to 3rd string status by Martz,who wanted JTO as the starter and choose Smith over Hill because Hill's arm is not good enough to throw deep all the time as Martz wanted.

Hill was the best PLAYER at QB on the team and JTO was a far better talent than Alex,except he was a turnover machine.

In case you had not noticed ,Martz is gone !

If a miracle happens and Alex actually shows some NFL talent for the first time since coming into the League,then I will be very happy because I am a Niner fan and would be rooting for all the players on the roster to do well.
So IF Alex stays with the Niners,more power to him,I hope he does very well ! But I won't hold my breath,lol.

No Smith helped us win those first two games. If Smith would not have played the way he did we wouldn't have won those games.

Hill does well because teams know very little about him. Just like any back up, the more you see him the worse he plays and the better defenses play against him.

The reason (IMHO) that Hill always ends up as the #3 QB on the depth chart is because our defense knows Hill and they are not surprised about anything he does. That's why he will yet again struggle in preseason. I can also guarantee Huard will look good against our Din preseason.

FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

I actually have those first 2 games on video and believe me,Smith was pretty bad in both of them. Of course that is just my opinion (and that of everyone I know ,who watched the games) but I believe that if you have a chance to go back and watch them over again,you would agree with me.

If we do keep Smith then I hope he gets much much better in almost every area of his game or else we are in huge trouble ,if he winds up actually playing in a game.

I agree with your opinion. I believe there was only about 100 yards passing in each of those wins with no passing TDs. It wasn't good at all.

FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

Earlier in the discussion, I described my only misgivings about Shaun Hill - that because he does not throw with good velocity, good db's will figure out how to bait him and jump routes. I'd like to take a close look at those last five ints to see if that was the case. I don't know the answer, but that's my concern.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:
FYI on HILL
FIRST 5 vs LAST 4
84.... - ....97 comp
139.. - ...149 att
1067 - ...979 yrds
8..... - .....5 td
3..... - .....5 ints
94.62 - 80.91 qb rating

Earlier in the discussion, I described my only misgivings about Shaun Hill - that because he does not throw with good velocity, good db's will figure out how to bait him and jump routes. I'd like to take a close look at those last five ints to see if that was the case. I don't know the answer, but that's my concern.

Well if you remember the Cardinals where baiting him all game
The did come up with 5 ints, but 3 where called back because of penalties

Originally posted by solidg2000:

I also remember how he won the game
1 min in to this video

Yeah,that was one of the few good plays Alex made in his career (but don't look too close at that video or you might see Alex under throwing wide open receivers on the deep pass,lol) .

Too bad he never put two of those nifty plays together in a row or even had a good drive in his career with a bunch of those type of plays strung together.
In fact Alex never even had one good complete game EVER in his career ! I have seen every play the guy has ever been in as a Niner and I think it is not debatable (jmho) . He has not only NEVER had even one really good complete game but I don't believe he has ever has a good complete quarter and I am positive he has never has a really good full half of play.

ONE play here and one play there doesn't an NFL QB make !

He is still young and maybe he will come out of his 4 year funk ? But when healthy in the time he has been a Niner ,he has not even shown enough flashes of competence to lead a fan to believe he will finally turn it all around.

I hope he does because he seems to be a class guy and a nice kid.

Originally posted by BrodieFan:


Earlier in the discussion, I described my only misgivings about Shaun Hill - that because he does not throw with good velocity, good db's will figure out how to bait him and jump routes. I'd like to take a close look at those last five ints to see if that was the case. I don't know the answer, but that's my concern.

Now that is a valid concern . His lack of arm strength is a big worry. I am sure that is why the Niners are not 100% sold on Hill as more than a stop gap QB ,that will start until a rookie gets up to speed.

He does however have pretty good velocity on the shorter passes( 10-25 yards ). It's those longer throws that make you put you hands over your eyes. Another good reason to get Martz out of town and start throwing to the TE's and RB's a bunch more !

Originally posted by TOP_CAT:

Originally posted by solidg2000:

I also remember how he won the game
1 min in to this video

Yeah,that was one of the few good plays Alex made in his career (but don't look too close at that video or you might see Alex under throwing wide open receivers on the deep pass,lol) .

Too bad he never put two of those nifty plays together in a row or even had a good drive in his career with a bunch of those type of plays strung together.
In fact Alex never even had one good complete game EVER in his career ! I have seen every play the guy has ever been in as a Niner and I think it is not debatable (jmho) . He has not only NEVER had even one really good complete game but I don't believe he has ever has a good complete quarter and I am positive he has never has a really good full half of play.

ONE play here and one play there doesn't an NFL QB make !

He is still young and maybe he will come out of his 4 year funk ? But when healthy in the time he has been a Niner ,he has not even shown enough flashes of competence to lead a fan to believe he will finally turn it all around.

I hope he does because he seems to be a class guy and a nice kid.

and Hill has

as for your comments about 2007, do you remember who was calling the plays really??? The worst offensive coordinator in history!!

Also I guess your right on Smith He hasn't ever done s**t, how can I ever doubt you. I mean he did score 3 TDs in the 4th quarter to beat the Seahawks, and throw for 3 TD to beat the Raiders. I mean he also crushed the broncos playoffs dreams. Oh and lead the 49ers 86 yards to the end zone in the season opener in 07 only to have Battle fumble it. Luckily we recovered and ran it in. Not all happy endings though, remember the season opener in 06, Smith helped bring back the team and in the last 31 seconds connects with Bryant to the Cardinals 36 yards line, two plays later Smiths throws a pass into the endzone that hits Gilmore in the chest and is dropped.

Yeah Smith hasn't done anything to show he belongs in the NFL

but hey if you prefer dink and dunk offense that gets yards but not points, be my guest and lets make Hill the starter now

Quote:
Hill only played because of injuries
and Smith
Smith only left the starting job because of in injury

So don't they both deserve it?

Smith left the starting job because he sucked and takes way too long to make a decision. Hill has earned the starting job by doing what you are supposed to do -- WINNING.

im hoping smith turns out like drew brees did. did horrible for his 1st few seasons then starts ripping apart defences