Shedeur Sanders Anyone ?

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
No one is calling him a generational prospect, but he's a much better prospect than Tyler Shough and Dillon Gabriel (who I like) if it was just about football at worst he goes 3rd round, but much more likely 2nd.

Something went on here, and we might never find out exactly what it was, but I think it's extremely naive to think that nothing happened.

What went on is exactly what went on with Kaepernick. But not in the way most media portrays it. In a way that teams didn't view Sanders as their starter and bringing him in as a backup would do more harm than good.

Every Browns player and coach are going to have to answer non stop Shadeur questions from start of camp until he starts, hurt or released. Who wants to be a part of that?

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
the insane argument is ppl are acting like clubs would pass up on a generational or an elite QB prospect out of spite lol. yea, nfl teams don't do that.

No one is calling him a generational prospect, but he's a much better prospect than Tyler Shough and Dillon Gabriel (who I like) if it was just about football at worst he goes 3rd round, but much more likely 2nd.

Something went on here, and we might never find out exactly what it was, but I think it's extremely naive to think that nothing happened.

i said or elite. if he's an elite prospect, clubs don't pass up on him for spite. that's fan fiction. that's maybe your or others narratives. it's made up dude. why would steelers pass up on him when they need QB and let him go to cleveland? if he's elite and is gonna run the league and be a FQB, well then explain it. make it make sense why Steelers would hand that guy to their rival, if they believe in him. 'something went on here', that's your way of trying to push a collusion tin foil hat nonsense theory. all it takes is one team to not collude and they can land the elite 'much better' prospect that other foolish teams are passing on.

you know how you get collusion? it's based on overwhelming grade. i'm pretty sure the entire league has the opinion that mahomes is great. but guess what, it's not 'collusion'. it's reality. it is very hard for 2 ppl to keep a secret, let alone 32 teams! so i am telling you, there is zero collusion. there is simply reality, and reality is he's not an elite prospect. i can show you ppl after howell was drafted that say wow this is an exciting pick, he's like baker mayfield, baker went 1 overall. sometimes guys like brock, sam and now sanders slide. name any elite traits you think sanders has. he's not big, his arm is not big, he's not a duel threat, and that's what teams tend to like.

we had deion in SF, he refers to himself as Prime, he would high step half the field. he is one of the greatest masters of self promotion of all time.

isn't it an easier solution to say maybe his son got more hyped than deserved? other than to say oh teams agreed to pick against their own interest, to prove a point?

the simplest explanation is the correct one

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Fair enough Phoenix, I'll leave it there. It's a perfectly reasonable argument and Shedeur is a very specific case, that's why I threw out the Kelce/Swift theory, I for one believe that kid would be treated a lot differently.

However, I remember the Kap discussions and we don't need to go there again. Even after the NFL have admitted collision and paid out damages people are still stating that was just about football.

The Willie Beamen interview on Any Given Sunday was an amazing piece of film making, and for me speaks a truth, that few wish to acknowledge.

You have the other side of it, Jalen Milroe, a guy with a ton of question marks about his accuracy but came out and absolutely dominated in his interviews, simply dropped the whole Weber Shandwick package on to teams and wowed them by being eager, humble, self-deprecatory and prepared. He showed up with examples of some of his worst plays, the areas where he struggled most, pointed out to teams how he plans on rectifying those issues and what current work he's doing in pursuit of that.

Milroe was not afraid to talk about his blind spots when being interviewed by teams leading up to the draft.

"[A] team said to him, 'Are you not concerned pointing out those things to us that would concern us?' He basically said to them, I wasn't in the room, but basically said, 'You should be concerned with any guy that comes in this room, who hasn't played a down of NFL football and doesn't tell you that he has weaknesses or that he isn't working on them. Plus it's an insult because that means he doesn't think you know how to watch film,'" Carpenter added.

Attitude and preparation both can make a great deal of difference.

ppl need to walk me thru it. you can't just lob accusations without evidence as 'something is going on'. what was the first team that had an issue with this player? how did they communicate the issue to other teams? how did they get all teams on board with shunning sanders? you tell me if it's your theory. tell me how it all went down.. ppl want to act like this is a thing, without thinking thru how little sense it makes and how impossible it would be to implement. you can tell me to shun randy moss in the draft, i'm not doing it. why would i? cuz you said so?

Look, in what will be my final word on this, I predicted a fall based on his lack of traits that the NFL (over)value. I even said that his skillset didn't match his bluster.

Were the interviews even worse than reported? Was everyone petrified of the noise Deion would (will) make about Shedeur starting? Are teams worried that he'll act like an entitled brat that won't work?

Even then, with all of that considered his floor ought to have been the 3rd round.

The league has done this before, yet people still refuse the possibility that racism (or more accurately Placism) could have come into this.

The league wants people to know their place, especially young black kids and even more specifically young black Quarterbacks.

I think it's sad that no one even thinks it's a possibility that is what happened.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Fair enough Phoenix, I'll leave it there. It's a perfectly reasonable argument and Shedeur is a very specific case, that's why I threw out the Kelce/Swift theory, I for one believe that kid would be treated a lot differently.

However, I remember the Kap discussions and we don't need to go there again. Even after the NFL have admitted collision and paid out damages people are still stating that was just about football.

The Willie Beamen interview on Any Given Sunday was an amazing piece of film making, and for me speaks a truth, that few wish to acknowledge.

You have the other side of it, Jalen Milroe, a guy with a ton of question marks about his accuracy but came out and absolutely dominated in his interviews, simply dropped the whole Weber Shandwick package on to teams and wowed them by being eager, humble, self-deprecatory and prepared. He showed up with examples of some of his worst plays, the areas where he struggled most, pointed out to teams how he plans on rectifying those issues and what current work he's doing in pursuit of that.

Milroe was not afraid to talk about his blind spots when being interviewed by teams leading up to the draft.

"[A] team said to him, 'Are you not concerned pointing out those things to us that would concern us?' He basically said to them, I wasn't in the room, but basically said, 'You should be concerned with any guy that comes in this room, who hasn't played a down of NFL football and doesn't tell you that he has weaknesses or that he isn't working on them. Plus it's an insult because that means he doesn't think you know how to watch film,'" Carpenter added.

Attitude and preparation both can make a great deal of difference.

Sorry, I said it was my last word, but this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Yes Milroe did that, he's also got traits the NFL covet.

My point is that it effected Sheduer more than it would have if he played a different position (Falcons traded up for James Pierce who had much more significant issues) and more than it would have if he didn't also have a loud Hall of Fame Dad that the NFL would like to shut up, and perhaps the biggest effect of all is that they don't know their place.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Look, in what will be my final word on this, I predicted a fall based on his lack of traits that the NFL (over)value. I even said that his skillset didn't match his bluster.

Were the interviews even worse than reported? Was everyone petrified of the noise Deion would (will) make about Shedeur starting? Are teams worried that he'll act like an entitled brat that won't work?

Even then, with all of that considered his floor ought to have been the 3rd round.

The league has done this before, yet people still refuse the possibility that racism (or more accurately Placism) could have come into this.

The league wants people to know their place, especially young black kids and even more specifically young black Quarterbacks.

I think it's sad that no one even thinks it's a possibility that is what happened.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

in your mind only on the bold. teams decide. brock was pick 262. why the heck would racism have anything to do with it? check pick 1.

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. you are doing some fan fiction on this, and it's not just you it's the internet, ppl love conspiracy theory. but what i don't like is you broadside the entire league. in order for you to believe your theory, then you have to think SF is racist. the whole league is racist. jed york is racist. that's the reason according to you, and we are as guilty as any other team, right? we are complicit, if i am to buy into your theory. it's a rigged league, and a very racist league, ok, why watch? i'd love to see a nfl where we don't talk about the race of the qbs, we are past that. focus on GAME.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
ppl need to walk me thru it. you can't just lob accusations without evidence as 'something is going on'. what was the first team that had an issue with this player? how did they communicate the issue to other teams? how did they get all teams on board with shunning sanders? you tell me if it's your theory. tell me how it all went down.. ppl want to act like this is a thing, without thinking thru how little sense it makes and how impossible it would be to implement. you can tell me to shun randy moss in the draft, i'm not doing it. why would i? cuz you said so?

Impossible to implement, they all met up less than 3 weeks ago?! They've also been caught doing it before.

As for the last sentence, you're right you wouldn't shun Randy Moss, but you might shun his much less talented but just as loud kid to shut them up.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
ppl need to walk me thru it. you can't just lob accusations without evidence as 'something is going on'. what was the first team that had an issue with this player? how did they communicate the issue to other teams? how did they get all teams on board with shunning sanders? you tell me if it's your theory. tell me how it all went down.. ppl want to act like this is a thing, without thinking thru how little sense it makes and how impossible it would be to implement. you can tell me to shun randy moss in the draft, i'm not doing it. why would i? cuz you said so?

Impossible to implement, they all met up less than 3 weeks ago?! They've also been caught doing it before.

As for the last sentence, you're right you wouldn't shun Randy Moss, but you might shun his much less talented but just as loud kid to shut them up.

so that's really your theory? owners meetings and they say let's shun this guy for racial and placial reasons. put him in his place. dude, deion was in the league. kyle loves deion. you think he's sitting there or jed is sitting there and listening to this and nodding? really? you think you keep that convo in the room? no leaks? get real

some impression you have of our ownership if you think they are in on this, or any ownership for that matter. that's a strong accusation you make, with no evidence.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Impossible to implement, they all met up less than 3 weeks ago?! They've also been caught doing it before.

As for the last sentence, you're right you wouldn't shun Randy Moss, but you might shun his much less talented but just as loud kid to shut them up.

so you admit here, it's a talent issue..

so let me get this straight, he's not that talented, yet NFL teams need to meet at owners meetings to shut him down. why exactly? what would be the reason? sounds like major risk, with no discernable upside, other than fulfilling the requirements of your conspiracy theory.

In the NFL does it really matter much where you're drafted if you don't go in the 1st round where a team controls you for 5 years with the extra option year? Sure you get less money but some of these guys are now getting more in college than they will as a first rond pick. I think it's more of an ego thing when they don't get picked as high as they expected.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
in your mind only on the bold. teams decide. brock was pick 262. why the heck would racism have anything to do with it? check pick 1.

sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. you are doing some fan fiction on this, and it's not just you it's the internet, ppl love conspiracy theory. but what i don't like is you broadside the entire league. in order for you to believe your theory, then you have to think SF is racist. the whole league is racist. jed york is racist. that's the reason according to you, and we are as guilty as any other team, right? we are complicit, if i am to buy into your theory. it's a rigged league, and a very racist league, ok, why watch? i'd love to see a nfl where we don't talk about the race of the qbs, we are past that. focus on GAME.

I did focus on game, I evaluated him, I was extremely against him going top 15, I comped him to Purdy, but the honest evaluation I'd that Purdy has shown teams that it can work. I didn't like some of the ways he decided to get out of pressure, but I think the same about Cam Ward, you swapped their O-Lines I think you get very similar production out of them both. I also don't think the kid has done himself any favours and have very little sympathy for him.

I just honestly feel that he got screwed over, not even by that much. I had him ranked over Dart, but could understand why you wouldn't. I rate Dillon Gabriel, and thought he'd go lower than he should had a 4th round grade on him. I just find it almost impossible to believe that someone could evaluate Gabriel and Shedeur and have them that way around.

I wasn't even going to speak on this as I was pretty confident this would be the outcome. I just don't believe the league played it straight.

I had the same thoughts with the Chiefs, did I believe there was an outright conspiracy? No, but I do think there was a superstar element that played into certain calls, and I don't think it hurt the NFL to have Taylor Swift turn up to their biggest games. I saw Bosa get held the sh*t out of and Trent get called for something the Chiefs O-Line do all the time.

The NFL has an immense amount of power, and it just baffles me that people don't believe they'll abuse it from time to time.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I did focus on game, I evaluated him, I was extremely against him going top 15, I comped him to Purdy, but the honest evaluation I'd that Purdy has shown teams that it can work. I didn't like some of the ways he decided to get out of pressure, but I think the same about Cam Ward, you swapped their O-Lines I think you get very similar production out of them both. I also don't think the kid has done himself any favours and have very little sympathy for him.

I just honestly feel that he got screwed over, not even by that much. I had him ranked over Dart, but could understand why you wouldn't. I rate Dillon Gabriel, and thought he'd go lower than he should had a 4th round grade on him. I just find it almost impossible to believe that someone could evaluate Gabriel and Shedeur and have them that way around.

I wasn't even going to speak on this as I was pretty confident this would be the outcome. I just don't believe the league played it straight.

I had the same thoughts with the Chiefs, did I believe there was an outright conspiracy? No, but I do think there was a superstar element that played into certain calls, and I don't think it hurt the NFL to have Taylor Swift turn up to their biggest games. I saw Bosa get held the sh*t out of and Trent get called for something the Chiefs O-Line do all the time.

The NFL has an immense amount of power, and it just baffles me that people don't believe they'll abuse it from time to time.

who is they? is they kyle? is they jed? we didn't take sanders. did we play the game straight or not? your theory makes villains of a lot of ppl. it's fan fiction. the nfl isn't a faceless entity, it's the men and women, the people, who either work for the clubs, or work for the league office. these ppl generally enjoy their jobs, enjoy making money and want to put a great product out there. their main focus is to win games. if you start going thru the logistics of trying to create some scheme and getting every club to buy in, you quickly see it as laughably absurd.