Shedeur Sanders Anyone ?

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Ok I'll bite. It's far more nuanced than that, which I why I brought up the Any Given Sunday interview which imo is absolutely spot on.

QB's are expected to act a certain way, they're the face of the franchise, so I get it, but when one upsets the apple cart they aren't treated alike.

Baker is confident to the point of arrogance, rubs people the wrong way, got drunk as can be, chased by police and arrested. Had his maturity and love for football is questioned, let's see how much that cost him in the draft process. Oh yeah no problem he goes #1.

Jonny Manziel is a whole other level of arrogant, so much so he coins his own nickname. Parties all the time and by all accounts bombs all of his interviews. Affect on his draft stock? Minimal goes #22

Ben Roethlisberger is accused of multiple sexual assaults, affect on his draft capital? Picked #13th

It goes further, women face the same cr*p. You get a guy that goes around sleeping with everyone on campus, he's a legend, a girl does it she's a hoe.

You're treated differently in society if you reflect those in power and they can see themselves in you. A mistake is seen in certain ways and people will look for different angles depending upon your race, gender, social class or schooling.

I didn't want to make this political, I came up with a fun hypothesis of whether or not it would have happened to Tayvis Swift-Kelce. Phoenix at least had the decency to reply with a reasoned response, as did Kriz. In a league where nepotism is absolutely rife at all levels, this is the first kid to ever be negatively affected by it. There is much more to it than the racist card.

Lol you bit hard. He didn't drop because of his ethnicity there has probably been more black QBs selected in the 1st round than white in the past decade. I don't get your angle.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Ok I'll bite. It's far more nuanced than that, which I why I brought up the Any Given Sunday interview which imo is absolutely spot on.

QB's are expected to act a certain way, they're the face of the franchise, so I get it, but when one upsets the apple cart they aren't treated alike.

Baker is confident to the point of arrogance, rubs people the wrong way, got drunk as can be, chased by police and arrested. Had his maturity and love for football is questioned, let's see how much that cost him in the draft process. Oh yeah no problem he goes #1.

Jonny Manziel is a whole other level of arrogant, so much so he coins his own nickname. Parties all the time and by all accounts bombs all of his interviews. Affect on his draft stock? Minimal goes #22

Ben Roethlisberger is accused of multiple sexual assaults, affect on his draft capital? Picked #13th

It goes further, women face the same cr*p. You get a guy that goes around sleeping with everyone on campus, he's a legend, a girl does it she's a hoe.

You're treated differently in society if you reflect those in power and they can see themselves in you. A mistake is seen in certain ways and people will look for different angles depending upon your race, gender, social class or schooling.

I didn't want to make this political, I came up with a fun hypothesis of whether or not it would have happened to Tayvis Swift-Kelce. Phoenix at least had the decency to reply with a reasoned response, as did Kriz. In a league where nepotism is absolutely rife at all levels, this is the first kid to ever be negatively affected by it. There is much more to it than the racist card.

maybe you can explain cam newton pick 1 after kicked out of florida, or winston pick 1 after getting on a table and saying what he said and stealing. or better yet, let's focus on game and who can play and guys traits, just like the NFL is doing btw.

Back up talent with circus, drama, outside distractions that could come into the locker room... staff thinks about that stuff

Originally posted by Since07:
Lol you bit hard. He didn't drop because of his ethnicity there has probably been more black QBs selected in the 1st round than white in the past decade. I don't get your angle.

If you haven't seen Any Given Sunday or haven't for a while, give it a watch. When Willie Beamen is interviewed he gives a bit on Placism, paraphrasing he basically says it's not Racism it's Placism for a young black kid to make it they have to know their place and fit in. They need to say yes sir, and show what they can offer a white owner. He goes on to question whether they'll ever be a black president (yeah, they butchered that, should have said female!) and question how many Black owners or coaches there will be.

My "angle" is that Sheduer (and Deion) upset that apple cart, they're seen as "uppity", needed to be taught a lesson and were. Whether that be a decision all the QB needy teams came to themselves or it's something they discussed at their meeting we'll probably never know.

My final angle is that if the situation was exactly the same and he was white that he'd have gone earlier.

I honestly don't care if anyone agrees with me, I'd just like people to honestly evaluate the situation and consider the possibility that some of what happened to this kid was due to his race, because he doesn't know his place and then think about whether or not that's a world they want to live in.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Since07:
Lol you bit hard. He didn't drop because of his ethnicity there has probably been more black QBs selected in the 1st round than white in the past decade. I don't get your angle.

If you haven't seen Any Given Sunday or haven't for a while, give it a watch. When Willie Beamen is interviewed he gives a bit on Placism, paraphrasing he basically says it's not Racism it's Placism for a young black kid to make it they have to know their place and fit in. They need to say yes sir, and show what they can offer a white owner. He goes on to question whether they'll ever be a black president (yeah, they butchered that, should have said female!) and question how many Black owners or coaches there will be.

My "angle" is that Sheduer (and Deion) upset that apple cart, they're seen as "uppity", needed to be taught a lesson and were. Whether that be a decision all the QB needy teams came to themselves or it's something they discussed at their meeting we'll probably never know.

My final angle is that if the situation was exactly the same and he was white that he'd have gone earlier.

I honestly don't care if anyone agrees with me, I'd just like people to honestly evaluate the situation and consider the possibility that some of what happened to this kid was due to his race, because he doesn't know his place and then think about whether or not that's a world they want to live in.

Sanders drop was unprecedented but you have no evidence of that, it's pure speculation and history proves otherwise what if he was white he'd be picked in the 2nd? I don't think it was his attitude that made him drop so far but the circus that comes with him. I believe there was an nfl collusion to make a statement because the Sanders were saying they will choose what team is okay for them and are willing to force a trade, so the nfl sent a message. There are so many reasons and reports to point rather then his skin color

Originally posted by Since07:
Sanders drop was unprecedented but you have no evidence of that, it's pure speculation and history proves otherwise what if he was white he'd be picked in the 2nd? I don't think it was his attitude that made him drop so far but the circus that comes with him. I believe there was an nfl collusion to make a statement because the Sanders were saying they will choose what team is okay for them and are willing to force a trade, so the nfl sent a message. There are so many reasons and reports to point rather then his skin color

I don't have any evidence, just calling what I see, if it was as simple as you say then we might get to see the difference in a year or two, given we have someone coming who's uncle did exactly the same thing, and had a team trade so he could still go #1.

Now granted Arch looks like a much better prospect, but we'll see.

There are loads of reasons and reports for why Shedeur slid I agree, I just don't personally believe they happen on the same scale if he was white. For me the attitude of him and his camp is exacerbated by the fact that they don't know their place. No one cares when spoilt little white kids act out.

Thanks for coming into a football forum to push your racist beliefs. Let's get back to talking football now.

Originally posted by Howlett49:
Thanks for coming into a football forum to push your racist beliefs. Let's get back to talking football now.

Thanks for your insightful contribution, can you speak on his football ability then? I've spoken plenty of football in this thread. I honestly believe if you swapped his O-Line with Cam Ward's everyone would have had Shedeur as the #1 prospect. He stood in there and took shots and delivered dimes. Ward stood around in a clean pocket 90% of the time.

Shedeur had better weapons, but zero time to find them and no running game to rely on. He had a tendency to hold the ball too long at times, but that seems to be the norm these days looking for bigger plays, I can't thinking of many prospects recently that haven't done that, he does need to avoid just dropping back and back though, creates impossible angles for his tackles and results in a drive kill if he does get sacked.

More football talk. It's embarrassing for Cleveland that Joe Flacco is their starting QB. He looked great there two years ago, but washed last year. The age cliff is steep, we'll see if he can stay the right side of it, but if he can't Shedeur is the best QB on their roster, we'll see if they start him.

Deion has coached his son at every level, and there has been talk of him wanting to continue doing this at the NFL level. Whether that is realistic or not, he will certainly be able to get access to a mike, and it seems probable he'll be chirping at the team that has Shedeur on how he's being used. That is a distraction that no team needs, and nobody wanted to volunteer for. It finally took the team that is the absolute stupidest when it comes to quarterbacks to do it, with some reports that it took ownership influence to get it done, with grim faces in their war room. I don't see how race comes into this.

He should partner with the Saudis and start a new LIV World Football League. They'll fill out the rosters with all the UDFA and players from around the world. Deion can be the coach of his son's team and the new commish. Shedeur will be league MVP 10 years straight and bank over a billion dollars. Win - win.

I think I've articulated that side of it pretty well, as I said I don't really care how many share my opinion, there's no evidence so everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That said it's very similar to the Kap situation, where people arguing it was just about talent still think they're right, even after the NFL have paid damages for colluding to black ball him. If it does come out later on then I hope people at least acknowledge it and learn from it.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I think I've articulated that side of it pretty well, as I said I don't really care how many share my opinion, there's no evidence so everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That said it's very similar to the Kap situation, where people arguing it was just about talent still think they're right, even after the NFL have paid damages for colluding to black ball him. If it does come out later on then I hope people at least acknowledge it and learn from it.

Again, it's not just about talent, although that is a debatable isssue. It's about distractions. Some people that think talent is the only justifiable reason to not draft someone, but attitude, ability to be coached, dedication to the team, unshelfishness, focus on improving oneself, dedication to winning, and humility all can effect the cohesiveness of a team and affect it's chances of winning or losing. People that can not acknowledge that, and insist no factors can come into decisions except talent, and if they do, it must be racism, even on juries, is a view I can not agree with.

double post

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I think I've articulated that side of it pretty well, as I said I don't really care how many share my opinion, there's no evidence so everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That said it's very similar to the Kap situation, where people arguing it was just about talent still think they're right, even after the NFL have paid damages for colluding to black ball him. If it does come out later on then I hope people at least acknowledge it and learn from it.

Again, it's not just about talent, although that is a debatable isssue. It's about distractions. Some people that think talent is the only justifiable reason to not draft someone, but attitude, ability to be coached, dedication to the team, unshelfishness, focus on improving oneself, dedication to winning, and humility all can effect the cohesiveness of a team and affect it's chances of winning or losing. People that can not acknowledge that, and insist no factors can come into decisions except talent, and if they do, it must be racism, even on juries, is a view I can not agree with.

Not one person has stated that race is the only issue. No one has even said you can only evaluate talent. It's obvious that there's a circus around. All I've said, and the very few minority that posted before me. Is that everything has been amplified, not even directly due to race, but because he (and his dad) do not know their place and therefore needed to be taught a lesson in humility.

The only reason I bring race into it directly is that I do not believe it would have affected a white kid in the same way.

Again, there is no evidence and you're entitled to your own opinion, but so am I.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I think I've articulated that side of it pretty well, as I said I don't really care how many share my opinion, there's no evidence so everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

That said it's very similar to the Kap situation, where people arguing it was just about talent still think they're right, even after the NFL have paid damages for colluding to black ball him. If it does come out later on then I hope people at least acknowledge it and learn from it.

Again, it's not just about talent, although that is a debatable isssue. It's about distractions. Some people that think talent is the only justifiable reason to not draft someone, but attitude, ability to be coached, dedication to the team, unshelfishness, focus on improving oneself, dedication to winning, and humility all can effect the cohesiveness of a team and affect it's chances of winning or losing. People that can not acknowledge that, and insist no factors can come into decisions except talent, and if they do, it must be racism, even on juries, is a view I can not agree with.

Not one person has stated that race is the only issue. No one has even said you can only evaluate talent. It's obvious that there's a circus around. All I've said, and the very few minority that posted before me. Is that everything has been amplified, not even directly due to race, but because he (and his dad) do not know their place and therefore needed to be taught a lesson in humility.

The only reason I bring race into it directly is that I do not believe it would have affected a white kid in the same way.

Again, there is no evidence and you're entitled to your own opinion, but so am I.

I was responding to your suggestion that people still think the Kap thing was just about talent, and we must "acknowledge" it wasn't. I agree. I don't think many people opposed to Kap thought it was "just about talent", and that doesn't mean they're racist. And I don't think Anybody, not one team, that passed on drafting Shedeur did so to teach them a lesson instead of trying to protect their own team.