Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by eric_anthony:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Right. Lol

the team has not only benched him, but are taking first team reps from him in order to make him compete with a bust for QB2/3. He has minimal trade value while on a rookie scale contract with 3 years remaining. Reportedly, didn't really have any trade interest, but he played really well and showed so much promise. Lol when are some people going to realize he only had a few good plays and then the rest was pretty bad.

I will say it's surprising that they aren't even really letting him compete for QB1, or considering him for it, seeing as he's barely played. I get that, but I just don't get the whole "he's played really good ball" crowd. Lol when literally EVERYTHING says the opposite.

The team didn't bench him he got hurt. That's not benching him. Of course he has no trade value how would he have trade value? He's still an unknown but je has shown promise. He won a game with the playoffs on the line and made really good plays in that game. That's a lot of pressure for a guy making his second NFL start with barely any experience. He could've fumbled and played "poorly" and then boom no playoffs. But no he turned it around the second half and played good. Not great, but good. Trey hasn't had the benefit of playing in the second half of the season with Mccaffrey and Kittle for a nice stretch while the offense is rolling. Yeah he should've stayed healthy but it's hard when your coach is calling all these runs for you.

If you were the starter and you got injured, when you come back and they say someone else is the starter, that's getting benched.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by genus49:
That's one of my few issues with Kyle, he doesn't always trust players until they pass his test…but with Lance it's his own doing in a sense.

You made the evaluation to select him after that trade, you may not trust him to run the offense like Jimmy/Brock right away but is the risk/reward to using him more like a runner there? Clearly not and I think it was pretty obvious.

Looking back Trey actually had more success as a passer than a runner. The bulk of the drives ended on Trey's running.

Some people can point to Jalen Hurts and how the Eagles used him as a runner first then let him develop(Altho it seems like they didn't even know they were doing that considering they tried to trade for Wilson before last season) but Kyle exposed the kid to a lot of punishment early and now we may never see what he could've been here if Kyle just dialed up the same type of offense as he did with the other QBs and see if Trey can make it work.

Maybe it wouldn't have been as smooth, maybe it wouldn't have been exactly as how Kyle drew it up but maybe it would've still worked better than what we saw and Trey may have been able to stay healthy and actually develop as we wanted and then we could get the Trey as Kyle drew it up AND the extra playmaking ability.

Now we're going into it backwards…but maybe now Kyle will at least let him run the same type of offense.

Lots of unknowns and what ifs which is why I'm excited to see training camp get here.

The predraft evaluations put way to much emphasis on 40 times for quickness. I really don't care how fast they can run the 40 from a set stance.

What matters is how quick they can tuck the ball and take their first two steps. How low their center of gravity is. A la hurts and Wilson are built like tanks from the waste down. That lets them get away from rip arm tackles and not just go down.

They fall in the love with the pure numbers and don't look how the players are built. Lance is a big dude but he's also evenly built all around. Prefer the shorter dudes with huge legs. They get away much easier and tend to be quicker on the scramble

Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

Him getting crushed at the goal line by the cardinals was a rude awakening to all niner fans that he was neither the powerful or elusive athlete the niners thought they were getting. Posting a gif at the end of the game that was already over in a prevent defense does nothing to prove otherwise. Tired of the narrative theat Lance is a special athlete. We have seen nothing that would indicate he is special in any way in terms of athleticism.

What? That was a PASS play, and the defenders had the angles on that. That wasn't a failure of athleticism. It was yet another mental failure. The ball should have been thrown to Juice.

3:39:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHxCOqmXzd8

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

another question: can anyone name another QB who was regarded as a good runner, yet needs to work on the mental issues of running, to unlock his natural ability as a runner?

Can you name another QB who was a runner in college who started one year at FCS who hadn't even thrown 400 passes in his entire life when he was drafted?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by genus49:
That's one of my few issues with Kyle, he doesn't always trust players until they pass his test…but with Lance it's his own doing in a sense.

You made the evaluation to select him after that trade, you may not trust him to run the offense like Jimmy/Brock right away but is the risk/reward to using him more like a runner there? Clearly not and I think it was pretty obvious.

Looking back Trey actually had more success as a passer than a runner. The bulk of the drives ended on Trey's running.

Some people can point to Jalen Hurts and how the Eagles used him as a runner first then let him develop(Altho it seems like they didn't even know they were doing that considering they tried to trade for Wilson before last season) but Kyle exposed the kid to a lot of punishment early and now we may never see what he could've been here if Kyle just dialed up the same type of offense as he did with the other QBs and see if Trey can make it work.

Maybe it wouldn't have been as smooth, maybe it wouldn't have been exactly as how Kyle drew it up but maybe it would've still worked better than what we saw and Trey may have been able to stay healthy and actually develop as we wanted and then we could get the Trey as Kyle drew it up AND the extra playmaking ability.

Now we're going into it backwards…but maybe now Kyle will at least let him run the same type of offense.

Lots of unknowns and what ifs which is why I'm excited to see training camp get here.

The predraft evaluations put way to much emphasis on 40 times for quickness. I really don't care how fast they can run the 40 from a set stance.

What matters is how quick they can tuck the ball and take their first two steps. How low their center of gravity is. A la hurts and Wilson are built like tanks from the waste down. That lets them get away from rip arm tackles and not just go down.

They fall in the love with the pure numbers and don't look how the players are built. Lance is a big dude but he's also evenly built all around. Prefer the shorter dudes with huge legs. They get away much easier and tend to be quicker on the scramble

Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

what did Mark Schlereth say on this topic?

He made an ASSsumption about what the 49ers thought of Lance's athleticism. It was a dumb statement then and it was a dumb statement now. They got exactly what they wanted in terms of his athleticism. He was never meant to be Mike Vick. He was meant to be used like Cam Newton—which he is quite capable of doing, in terms of running.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

another question: can anyone name another QB who was regarded as a good runner, yet needs to work on the mental issues of running, to unlock his natural ability as a runner?

Thays easy. That would be NOBODY

The argument is just so f**king stupid. Qbs who don't get the nuances of the game take off too early from the pocket because thats what they do instinctually. I've never seen a qb develop into a great runner. To argue that trey has a mental block that impedes his ability to be a great runner is desperate at best.

Here's an easier one: name a guy who played at the FCS level who had fewer than 400 passes in his entire life when drafted. NOBODY.

The desperation is that you guys ignore film and context because it doesn't serve your opinion which is based on a very myopic, noob understanding of football where you can't see that the QB is looking downfield and misjudging angles and speed of persuit.

EDIT: no one said he'd be a "great" runner. What he'll be when he finally gets enough reps to be able to operate without gaping holes created by vastly superior talent is one or two extra yards a pop, which equals several more first downs per game.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Here's an easier one: name a guy who played at the FCS level who had fewer than 400 passes in his entire life when drafted. NOBODY.

The desperation is that you guys ignore film and context because it doesn't serve your opinion which is based on a very myopic, noob understanding of football where you can't see that the QB is looking downfield and misjudging angles and speed of persuit.

EDIT: no one said he'd be a "great" runner. What he'll be when he finally gets enough reps to be able to operate without gaping holes created by vastly superior talent is one or two extra yards a pop, which equals several more first downs per game.

Too bad he wasnt from Michigan, then he would have a reason to suck based on his school rather than being drafted too early after a quarantine year.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

another question: can anyone name another QB who was regarded as a good runner, yet needs to work on the mental issues of running, to unlock his natural ability as a runner?

Thays easy. That would be NOBODY

The argument is just so f**king stupid. Qbs who don't get the nuances of the game take off too early from the pocket because thats what they do instinctually. I've never seen a qb develop into a great runner. To argue that trey has a mental block that impedes his ability to be a great runner is desperate at best.

Here's an easier one: name a guy who played at the FCS level who had fewer than 400 passes in his entire life when drafted. NOBODY.

The desperation is that you guys ignore film and context because it doesn't serve your opinion which is based on a very myopic, noob understanding of football where you can't see that the QB is looking downfield and misjudging angles and speed of persuit.

EDIT: no one said he'd be a "great" runner. What he'll be when he finally gets enough reps to be able to operate without gaping holes created by vastly superior talent is one or two extra yards a pop, which equals several more first downs per game.

I don't even know where to begin.

1. What does being the only fcs level with less than. 400 passes have to do with anything? The dude isn't athletic as we hoped. It had nothing to do with where he came from.

2. No sorry. It has nothing to do with him looking downfield. The dude gets stonewalled and gets tackled by f**king linebackers short of the line of scrimmage AFTER making his decision to run. Keep lying to yourself.

3. If he's not a great runner, the. Why the hell did we trade the farm for him? It clearly wasn't for his processing, or his accuracy. It sure as hell wasnt for his throwing mechanics. What makes us think he will ever be able to process? Some people get it. Some people don't.

He still has a chance to make it. But don't tell me his running ability looks subpar because he's processing or looking downfield. b******t. I know a great runner when I see it. He ain't it.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
.

He still has a chance to make it.

Then for f**k's sake, do us all a favor and exercise patience.

I asked this before but I don't remember if someone answered it - did Lance go back to working out with his QB coach when OTAs ended?

i hope he did. This is his first healthy off season and he can make some big strides if he's grinding it all out, which I'm sure he is. Just not sure if he went back to his coach before camp or not.

im eager to see how he looks in live games with his mechanics work and his confidence. Really would like to see him shut down Darnold and then put pressure on Purdy.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

another question: can anyone name another QB who was regarded as a good runner, yet needs to work on the mental issues of running, to unlock his natural ability as a runner?

Thays easy. That would be NOBODY

The argument is just so f**king stupid. Qbs who don't get the nuances of the game take off too early from the pocket because thats what they do instinctually. I've never seen a qb develop into a great runner. To argue that trey has a mental block that impedes his ability to be a great runner is desperate at best.

Here's an easier one: name a guy who played at the FCS level who had fewer than 400 passes in his entire life when drafted. NOBODY.

The desperation is that you guys ignore film and context because it doesn't serve your opinion which is based on a very myopic, noob understanding of football where you can't see that the QB is looking downfield and misjudging angles and speed of persuit.

EDIT: no one said he'd be a "great" runner. What he'll be when he finally gets enough reps to be able to operate without gaping holes created by vastly superior talent is one or two extra yards a pop, which equals several more first downs per game.

I don't even know where to begin.

1. What does being the only fcs level with less than. 400 passes have to do with anything? The dude isn't athletic as we hoped. It had nothing to do with where he came from.

Smh. My central thesis is that many of his problems stem from MENTAL issues, derived from lack of experience. His LACK OF EXPERIENCE, especially against great defenders, is why he waits too long to cut and go full speed, trying to drag it out thinking he's going to get the corner or juke his way to more yards in the NFL.

Originally posted by JoseCortez: 2. No sorry. It has nothing to do with him looking downfield. The dude gets stonewalled and gets tackled by f**king linebackers short of the line of scrimmage AFTER making his decision to run. Keep lying to yourself.

The key word here is "AFTER." When is that after? It's TOO LATE, because he foolishly thinks in the NFL he can wait and wait for an optimal path to develop, or foolishly gives up easy yards hoping to complete a pass, frozen with indecision until the BRIEF window in the NFL that you have is gone.

Here he thinks he might pass, HESITATES, and ends up costing himself about four or five yards because of it.


And here we see him never even sprint, and he even slows down, thinking he has a chance of getting the edge on a guy with a massive head start and the perfect angle from fifteen yards away. Trey didn't see him until it was too late. He should have put his head down and sprinted before even getting to the numbers. Not that he would have made it anyway, but that's a couple more yards.


Here we have a situation where he's watching the guy closest to him, but lacks the vision to see the guy behind him with the angle. Here he is thinking he can beat the guy in front of him with a sudden acceleration, and push through his tackle. But he doesn't account for the guy behind the man in front of him. Because of inexperience and inadequate vision as a runner. What he SHOULD have done is immediately sprint as fast as he can towards sideline and the marker, using speed rather than guile to get by the guy in front of him, because he would NEVER be able to get by both by juking the first guy enough to break through his tackle. He doesn't take into account the second defender until it's way too late to have any hope. Either that, or he thought he'd be able to power through both, which is just as bad (EDIT: no, he's not beating DBs to the sideline, but he has a better chance if he just goes for the straight line towards the pylon; also notice two 49ers not blocking anyone. That's not all on Trey here).


These three runs show a repeating problem, one you are strangely oblivious to, given that you're a Trey critic: Trey has unusually bad vision as a runner. And I submit that the explanation for that is that he never had to have good vision at NDSU because his far more talented teammates provided gaping holes on designed runs, and when he scrambled, they weren't nearly as sound in their techniques and reaction time to stop him. Where he not so inexperienced, he'd recognize his ability compared to NFL defenders, and stop with the attempts at using sudden changes in speed to power through people when that doesn't work very well against NFL players.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
3. If he's not a great runner, the. Why the hell did we trade the farm for him? It clearly wasn't for his processing, or his accuracy. It sure as hell wasnt for his throwing mechanics. What makes us think he will ever be able to process? Some people get it. Some people don't.

You are among those who don't. He was drafted because he's a GOOD ENOUGH runner to stress the defense with both designed QB runs (particularly QB power and inverted veer, which he HAS done with a lot of success) and behind the line to throw down the field. What was underestimated is merely the vast talent differential of defenses he was used to playing against versus NFL defenses. You cannot hesitate or hope to break through multiple tackles, nor will sudden changes in your motion vector affect a defender when they are close enough to you given that they are both better athletes than FCS and much more fundamentally sound.

Originally posted by JoseCortez: He still has a chance to make it. But don't tell me his running ability looks subpar because he's processing or looking downfield. b******t. I know a great runner when I see it. He ain't it.

It certainly is a fruitless exercise to try to get prominent members of the Jimmy club to actually know what they're seeing when they watch film. You can literally tell quite clearly on some of these that he's looking down field to pass, or he's not seeing the whole field and makes decisions based only on the guy directly in front of him, which is doomed to failure. Bottom line: he's thinking too much, not reacting enough. These are are related to the same issue: lack of experience compounded by weak competition in the only experience he has.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Smh. My central thesis is that many of his problems stem from MENTAL issues, derived from lack of experience. His LACK OF EXPERIENCE, especially against great defenders, is why he waits too long to cut and go full speed, trying to drag it out thinking he's going to get the corner or juke his way to more yards in the NFL.

Originally posted by JoseCortez: 2. No sorry. It has nothing to do with him looking downfield. The dude gets stonewalled and gets tackled by f**king linebackers short of the line of scrimmage AFTER making his decision to run. Keep lying to yourself.

The key word here is "AFTER." When is that after? It's TOO LATE, because he foolishly thinks in the NFL he can wait and wait for an optimal path to develop, or foolishly gives up easy yards hoping to complete a pass, frozen with indecision until the BRIEF window in the NFL that you have is gone.

Here he thinks he might pass, HESITATES, and ends up costing himself about four or five yards because of it.


And here we see him never even sprint, and he even slows down, thinking he has a chance of getting the edge on a guy with a massive head start and the perfect angle from fifteen yards away. Trey didn't see him until it was too late. He should have put his head down and sprinted before even getting to the numbers. Not that he would have made it anyway, but that's a couple more yards.


Here we have a situation where he's watching the guy closest to him, but lacks the vision to see the guy behind him with the angle. Here he is thinking he can beat the guy in front of him with a sudden acceleration, and push through his tackle. But he doesn't account for the guy behind the man in front of him. Because of inexperience and inadequate vision as a runner. What he SHOULD have done is immediately sprint as fast as he can towards sideline and the marker, using speed rather than guile to get by the guy in front of him, because he would NEVER be able to get by both by juking the first guy enough to break through his tackle. He doesn't take into account the second defender until it's way too late to have any hope. Either that, or he thought he'd be able to power through both, which is just as bad (EDIT: no, he's not beating DBs to the sideline, but he has a better chance if he just goes for the straight line towards the pylon; also notice two 49ers not blocking anyone. That's not all on Trey here).


These three runs show a repeating problem, one you are strangely oblivious to, given that you're a Trey critic: Trey has unusually bad vision as a runner. And I submit that the explanation for that is that he never had to have good vision at NDSU because his far more talented teammates provided gaping holes on designed runs, and when he scrambled, they weren't nearly as sound in their techniques and reaction time to stop him. Where he not so inexperienced, he'd recognize his ability compared to NFL defenders, and stop with the attempts at using sudden changes in speed to power through people when that doesn't work very well against NFL players.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
3. If he's not a great runner, the. Why the hell did we trade the farm for him? It clearly wasn't for his processing, or his accuracy. It sure as hell wasnt for his throwing mechanics. What makes us think he will ever be able to process? Some people get it. Some people don't.

You are among those who don't. He was drafted because he's a GOOD ENOUGH runner to stress the defense with both designed QB runs (particularly QB power and inverted veer, which he HAS done with a lot of success) and behind the line to throw down the field. What was underestimated is merely the vast talent differential of defenses he was used to playing against versus NFL defenses. You cannot hesitate or hope to break through multiple tackles, nor will sudden changes in your motion vector affect a defender when they are close enough to you given that they are both better athletes than FCS and much more fundamentally sound.

Originally posted by JoseCortez: He still has a chance to make it. But don't tell me his running ability looks subpar because he's processing or looking downfield. b******t. I know a great runner when I see it. He ain't it.

It certainly is a fruitless exercise to try to get prominent members of the Jimmy club to actually know what they're seeing when they watch film. You can literally tell quite clearly on some of these that he's looking down field to pass, or he's not seeing the whole field and makes decisions based only on the guy directly in front of him, which is doomed to failure. Bottom line: he's thinking too much, not reacting enough. These are are related to the same issue: lack of experience compounded by weak competition in the only experience he has.

His run there kind of ties into my comments that he isn't super quick or agile. Lamar or fields would of burned their ass to the first down.

now part of his run may of been impacted by the second guy coming but I still don't think he has the burst to beat them around the corner. That's why I don't think we can play true 11-11 with him, he is above average, but not unique with his speed/agility/burst.

Ludicrously biased graphic. Dolphins spent a lot more than just the Lance pick making all those trade-ups.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I asked this before but I don't remember if someone answered it - did Lance go back to working out with his QB coach when OTAs ended?

i hope he did. This is his first healthy off season and he can make some big strides if he's grinding it all out, which I'm sure he is. Just not sure if he went back to his coach before camp or not.

im eager to see how he looks in live games with his mechanics work and his confidence. Really would like to see him shut down Darnold and then put pressure on Purdy.

According to Jennifer Lee Chan he will continue working out with his QB coach in Dallas and that's a great news.
It' s not said in a clear manner but in Dallas It's where he worked with Mahomes and Cristensen last march.

Lance will have more opportunities to work with Kittle and the rest of the 49ers' offense when veterans report to Santa Clara on July 25 for training camp. Until then, the quarterback plans on heading home to Minnesota to spend the Fourth of July holiday with family before traveling to Dallas for the remainder of the offseason.

Trey Lance

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Tired of the stupid narrative that Lance is physically unquick. It's horse s**t.


His hangup with running is related to mental issues—most of which is related to experience. He came from a weak college conference in which he faced few top tier athletes, which led to a much slower game. If/when he gets enough reps to adjust, he'll be fine running.

another question: can anyone name another QB who was regarded as a good runner, yet needs to work on the mental issues of running, to unlock his natural ability as a runner?

Thays easy. That would be NOBODY

The argument is just so f**king stupid. Qbs who don't get the nuances of the game take off too early from the pocket because thats what they do instinctually. I've never seen a qb develop into a great runner. To argue that trey has a mental block that impedes his ability to be a great runner is desperate at best.

Your posts in here or the rest of this site are clear you don't do this BUT had you actually watched the games in detail you'd see what he wrote is 100% accurate.

You want to talk about Nobody? Show me another QB comparable to Lance as far as inexperience and competition jump.

The games tell the story well - when he runs on non designed runs he looks much better. When he's trying to execute the offense of a coach known for being VERY specific about his scheme and what he wants then it's absolutely logical that a kid making a big competition jump and not used to NFL speed could find himself hesitating when he runs.

The funny thing is Lance isn't the type of QB who has issues staying with the pass play vs taking off if his first read is covered.