Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's true. Let's see if Brock becomes more conservative over time (that happens too).

Great point. I think your point coupled with my expanded points are what puts him at risk even more.

Very true. I was super happy with last year's baseline. But now they need to get to playoff level PP. Let's hope they do b/c if Brock does get the time (and Kyle too), #6 is right around the corner.

just for an FYI I saw this today

The 49ers allowed the second-fewest pressures in the NFL last season, per Pro Football Reference.

Their pressure rate allowed of 16.2% was the second best.

They were the opposite in the playoffs though. That's the hump to get over for sure. But they were really good in the regular season and esp. considering it was their baseline year too!

I think they got better at OLine depth too. 2022 it was Brunskill, McKivitz, Moore and Zakelj. 2023 it could potentially be: Feliciano, Ismael, Poe, Pryor, Zakelj, with rookies Fisher, Luciano, Manning, veteran Gutierrez, i.e. more talent and more depth and a bit more experience. Moore might be the odd man out.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's true. Let's see if Brock becomes more conservative over time (that happens too).

Great point. I think your point coupled with my expanded points are what puts him at risk even more.

Very true. I was super happy with last year's baseline. But now they need to get to playoff level PP. Let's hope they do b/c if Brock does get the time (and Kyle too), #6 is right around the corner.

just for an FYI I saw this today

The 49ers allowed the second-fewest pressures in the NFL last season, per Pro Football Reference.

Their pressure rate allowed of 16.2% was the second best.

They were the opposite in the playoffs though. That's the hump to get over for sure. But they were really good in the regular season and esp. considering it was their baseline year too!

I personally kind of expect that though in the playoffs. You have to take the context of the playoffs into consideration and not just look at the stats - all professional sports get way more difficult in the playoffs because players take it way more serious and are way more amped up. In theory you'd think all players would bring their all during each game in the regular season but it just isn't that way. It's rare players do that, even more rare when an entire unit does. Players have talked openly about how it's difficult to stay 100% motivated for each week during the regular season. We also had a rookie qb, and for awesome as he played, he was still a rookie and that brings unique challenges to the o line.

you also have to realize who we played in the playoffs
1. Seahawks: division rival that we were playing for the third time. They also have a really good defensive minded coach. When you play a team that many times in one season, you both know each other and your secrets super well. It's very difficult to trick or surprise your them.

2. cowboys: another rival and they have an excellent pass rush. They really brought it with high energy and focus when we played them, their defense played a great game. They were a top 3 pass rushing team and have arguably the second best pass rusher in the nfl (micah). I hate the cowboys but their d was locked in, played fast, and violent. Kudos to them - I was impressed. Those who knock Purdy for only 19 points in that game just don't understand football and think it's all fantasy football. It's ridiculous. Lol

3. eagles - they had a historically good pass rush, just brutal. We never really got a chance to play a real game against them cause Purdy went down immediately and then JJ did - not like JJ was playing well. Lol but that was an NFCC game in Philly and Philly had a historically good pass rush.

there are more variables but people should understand, it's very difficult to just go into the playoffs and dominate, especially when your slate of opponents were what we had. That's a super tall task and we are rose to the occasion until we only had 10 players on offense.

our o line can and hopefully does improve but I don't think they played bad at all. The qb injuries came from TEs getting blown up.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I knowI said he wasn't flicking it, it is not his game and not a whole lot can, but he also wasn't having to re-establish his base just to generate power. Just watched quite a few of his throws where he got decent power down the field or to the side of the field while off balance. That's all I'm saying.

Well I kinda disagree there. Maybe we have a different idea of what re-establishing his base means. Either way it's not a make or break thing. I do feel when he's moving and trying to make a play downfield, that half a sec to re-establish his footing to throw downfield could lead to more hits. I also think because of the lack of true arm talent, he's gotta be more anticipatory on some of those throws (more consistent). He had some where he waited too long to "see them open" and by the time he threw it, it was either under thrown or incomplete.

it's all nitpicking. Overall he played great… but everyone (meaning 49er fans) talks about him like he's the next elite QB and out FQB. For me I just want to see him completely healthy. I need a larger sample size and for him to work on some stuff before I get there.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I knowI said he wasn't flicking it, it is not his game and not a whole lot can, but he also wasn't having to re-establish his base just to generate power. Just watched quite a few of his throws where he got decent power down the field or to the side of the field while off balance. That's all I'm saying.

Well I kinda disagree there. Maybe we have a different idea of what re-establishing his base means. Either way it's not a make or break thing. I do feel when he's moving and trying to make a play downfield, that half a sec to re-establish his footing to throw downfield could lead to more hits. I also think because of the lack of true arm talent, he's gotta be more anticipatory on some of those throws (more consistent). He had some where he waited too long to "see them open" and by the time he threw it, it was either under thrown or incomplete.

it's all nitpicking. Overall he played great… but everyone (meaning 49er fans) talks about him like he's the next elite QB and out FQB. For me I just want to see him completely healthy. I need a larger sample size and for him to work on some stuff before I get there.

Agreed no one should be crowning him just yet, kind of a rock and a hard place here. If he continues to play well then how do they get Lance reps. I mean I guess if Purdy is the real deal it's a moot point

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
I knowI said he wasn't flicking it, it is not his game and not a whole lot can, but he also wasn't having to re-establish his base just to generate power. Just watched quite a few of his throws where he got decent power down the field or to the side of the field while off balance. That's all I'm saying.

Well I kinda disagree there. Maybe we have a different idea of what re-establishing his base means. Either way it's not a make or break thing. I do feel when he's moving and trying to make a play downfield, that half a sec to re-establish his footing to throw downfield could lead to more hits. I also think because of the lack of true arm talent, he's gotta be more anticipatory on some of those throws (more consistent). He had some where he waited too long to "see them open" and by the time he threw it, it was either under thrown or incomplete.

it's all nitpicking. Overall he played great… but everyone (meaning 49er fans) talks about him like he's the next elite QB and out FQB. For me I just want to see him completely healthy. I need a larger sample size and for him to work on some stuff before I get there.

Agreed no one should be crowning him just yet, kind of a rock and a hard place here. If he continues to play well then how do they get Lance reps. I mean I guess if Purdy is the real deal it's a moot point

True. It's not the worst problem to have (for now).

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
That's true. Let's see if Brock becomes more conservative over time (that happens too).

Great point. I think your point coupled with my expanded points are what puts him at risk even more.

Very true. I was super happy with last year's baseline. But now they need to get to playoff level PP. Let's hope they do b/c if Brock does get the time (and Kyle too), #6 is right around the corner.

just for an FYI I saw this today

The 49ers allowed the second-fewest pressures in the NFL last season, per Pro Football Reference.

Their pressure rate allowed of 16.2% was the second best.

They were the opposite in the playoffs though. That's the hump to get over for sure. But they were really good in the regular season and esp. considering it was their baseline year too!

I personally kind of expect that though in the playoffs. You have to take the context of the playoffs into consideration and not just look at the stats - all professional sports get way more difficult in the playoffs because players take it way more serious and are way more amped up. In theory you'd think all players would bring their all during each game in the regular season but it just isn't that way. It's rare players do that, even more rare when an entire unit does. Players have talked openly about how it's difficult to stay 100% motivated for each week during the regular season. We also had a rookie qb, and for awesome as he played, he was still a rookie and that brings unique challenges to the o line.

you also have to realize who we played in the playoffs
1. Seahawks: division rival that we were playing for the third time. They also have a really good defensive minded coach. When you play a team that many times in one season, you both know each other and your secrets super well. It's very difficult to trick or surprise your them.

2. cowboys: another rival and they have an excellent pass rush. They really brought it with high energy and focus when we played them, their defense played a great game. They were a top 3 pass rushing team and have arguably the second best pass rusher in the nfl (micah). I hate the cowboys but their d was locked in, played fast, and violent. Kudos to them - I was impressed. Those who knock Purdy for only 19 points in that game just don't understand football and think it's all fantasy football. It's ridiculous. Lol

3. eagles - they had a historically good pass rush, just brutal. We never really got a chance to play a real game against them cause Purdy went down immediately and then JJ did - not like JJ was playing well. Lol but that was an NFCC game in Philly and Philly had a historically good pass rush.

there are more variables but people should understand, it's very difficult to just go into the playoffs and dominate, especially when your slate of opponents were what we had. That's a super tall task and we are rose to the occasion until we only had 10 players on offense.

our o line can and hopefully does improve but I don't think they played bad at all. The qb injuries came from TEs getting blown up.

True, but we didn't have an OL (Chiefs) that could shut down that same historic pass rush. Not last year anyways. But maybe this year. We'll see. We're typically a really good OL during the regular season and then get crushed in the playoffs b/c that's when talent shines most. Some think it was d/t key injuries, lack of talent overall, the QB, lack of prioritization, scheme stress, etc. but the truth is, it's usually a combination of all of them.

Funny how people think arm talent = arm strength.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Agreed no one should be crowning him just yet, kind of a rock and a hard place here. If he continues to play well then how do they get Lance reps. I mean I guess if Purdy is the real deal it's a moot point

Exactly. Lance has to take advantage of every rep he gets going forward. He's gotta have more command. Be an a*****e to the other guys. Be the alpha and act like you want it.

if Brock continues to ball then it's all moot. We got a FQB and we're all excited. I just need more from both to come to a conclusion on either guy.

Originally posted by Koldo:
Funny how people think arm talent = arm strength.

Yeah, i think it's nonsense. It's really preference and that's all. A lot of people on here believe that physical size and arm strength determine potential and its blasphemy. Lol also, since Brock isn't very big that he will get hurt.

i think everyone's just one hit away from an injury and it depends on how you protect yourself. Guys like Brady and Bree's didn't have big frames (Brady was just tall) and their arm wasn't special. Rodgers isn't a very big guy (what an inch taller than Brock?). Etc etc. it's just a way to press a preference over reality.

it's cool if the guy does have a strong arm and is big/fast but those are supplemental and not necessary or determine potential.

trey has had three pretty rough injuries In three games and he's big, fast, and strong. It's more chance than anything. I don't want to see anyone get injured, ever.

i just chalk it up to its certain peoples way of pushing their preference and it's masked as potential.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Agreed no one should be crowning him just yet, kind of a rock and a hard place here. If he continues to play well then how do they get Lance reps. I mean I guess if Purdy is the real deal it's a moot point

Exactly. Lance had to advantage of every rep he gets going forward. He's gotta have more command. Be an a*****e to the other guys. Be the alpha and act like you want it.

if Brock continues to ball then it's all moot. We got a FQB and we're all excited. I just need more from both to come to a conclusion on either guy.

It's rare to find a guy that performs at a high level and even though Brock did it over a small stretch, it's all he's done. So that's really exciting to me and you stick with it until it proves you wrong. Instead of turning the job over to someone that you have no idea if he is capable of that or not. Which even kyles said that ones done it and one hasn't (2 if you count darnold).

That isn't a knock on lance though. It's a credit to Purdy and what he accomplished. I don't believe you throw that away, you see what it is. If we didn't have Brock, I'd 100% on board with Lance playing.

neither should comfortably have the job yet though. Brock has to go out there and own it, continue doing what he's done, and get it done at a high level. He can't rest on his past performances. Lance has to catch up to him and then try and surpass it. If Brock improves on last year, I think that's a wrap. Not that Lance will be bad but that he likely won't get a serious opportunity here.

brock has the big advantage of tons of experience leading programs and huddles a lot at all three levels. I think that's something Lance is still navigating because he's green at it. Not that he is some push over but not quite a leader of men, yet. I think he will but his youth coupled with his experience makes that difficult.

to put it simply, Lance has struggled and hasn't really put anything together yet (at least know he's been injured worse than we knew) - some are comparing him to Steve young and mahommes. Lol so imagine if his three games went as well as Purdy's did? Guys like NY would be saying he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That's just the reality. Some folks prefer Lance to be a star over a guy like Purdy, that's all it really is. There isn't a rational explanation to believe Lance will be the next great thing and simultaneously think Purdy was a flash in the pan or will regress. All that says is which player they prefer to be the star - I prefer whoever can do it and so far we only know Brock can. If both can, wonderful, even better. Other than that, it's just pure optimism. Especially with how few games Lance has played in his entire life.

Originally posted by Koldo:
Funny how people think arm talent = arm strength.

Yea, and then use it as a basis for arguments about players 'ceilings'.

The thing about Trey Lance is that he's played so little that we really don't know what he can be. One concern is the story about Lance being on the trading block and the fact that Shanahan has stated that Purdy-assuming he's healthy-will be the starter. Kind of sounds like the coaches have seen enough to make a judgment that Purdy is definitely better than Trey.

Originally posted by napo:
The thing about Trey Lance is that he's played so little that we really don't know what he can be. One concern is the story about Lance being on the trading block and the fact that Shanahan has stated that Purdy-assuming he's healthy-will be the starter. Kind of sounds like the coaches have seen enough to make a judgment that Purdy is definitely better than Trey.

He's not on the trade block. They said they are taking calls on Lance. Taking not making. They take calls on all players. Unless they are named Bosa.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Koldo:
Funny how people think arm talent = arm strength.

Yea, and then use it as a basis for arguments about players 'ceilings'.

I've never understood that argument.

Because more arm strength =/= higher ceiling.

But also... you can't get mad at posters who believe Trey has a higher ceiling when you yourself are putting limitations on Trey's ceiling in your own mind after only 3 games.

I've tried to refrain from making statements about ceilings for Trey and Purdy, because I could honestly see either one of them or both become a top 5 QB, they just have different skill sets.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Koldo:
Funny how people think arm talent = arm strength.

Yea, and then use it as a basis for arguments about players 'ceilings'.

I've never understood that argument.

Because more arm strength =/= higher ceiling.

But also... you can't get mad at posters who believe Trey has a higher ceiling when you yourself are putting limitations on Trey's ceiling in your own mind after only 3 games.

I've tried to refrain from making statements about ceilings for Trey and Purdy, because I could honestly see either one of them or both become a top 5 QB, they just have different skill sets.

A lot of my personal belief on someone's "ceiling" depends on they play within an offense. Are they a game manager or someone that elevates everything around them?

i believe that if you're a game manager, you can never really be an elite qb, you can be a top 8-12 qb, but I don't think you can be elite.

how does someone perform when the play breaks down? How's their ball placement? Do they throw guys open? Do they hit tight windows? How do they perform under pressure? How do they perform in the redzone? How's their pocket presence? Etc.

a lot of QBs struggle if the play isn't open for them or it breaks down, those are usually the game managers. Or they can rarely operate outside of a play breaking down/throw guys open.

i personally feel like Lance is more of a high end game manager, but that isn't just based off of his three games, And my opinion can totally change once he plays more. It's just what I've seen so far. He's always been a cog in a machine and never the machine that everything runs through, if that makes sense. Highschool he threw 11 total touchdowns his junior and senior year (per max preps -I'm assuming he ran a lot more but it shows how little they depends on the pass game), then he had one season in college playing for a powerhouse that has won 9 championships in 12 years - so he isn't the reason they won, they won before him and right after. He was good there, no doubt, but it isn't like he elevated the program into a contender and they surely didn't rely on him to win games (specifically on his passing ability, just like his HS didnt.)- although he did help them win games. I'm saying they would of won with or without him like they have for nearly 15 years straight. He hasn't played enough in the nfl to make an assessment but that's my biggest concern with Lance.

Purdy isn't physically talented like Lance but he elevated his highschool to heights they've never been to or hadn't in decades (he was the core reason), then he did the same in college and they've been awful without him on offense (they were historically bad last season on offense without him). Then I watch him play in the pros and he elevated this offense to heights we have never seen under shanahan (he has a great cast, no doubt, but he was better than any other qb we've had by far).

so it isn't so much as I have made a final assessment on Lance, I just have concerns that are backed up by real evidence/data. Then we have Purdy who has done great things at all levels and led each program to new heights. That's what gets me excited.

im perfectly fine being wrong about Lance, that's a good thing. I'm not saying he is bad, I just have my concerns about him becoming elite and don't see any proof of him being able to do that. I see him as a 8-11 rank qb in this league once he gets experience. I don't think that's a bad thing? I just question that he will be elite. I don't think that's far fetched.