Mac Jones-QB-49ers

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
that all this thread is, personal and hyperbole. How many boards have Jones at better than a 4th or 5th ranking ?

4th or 5th best prospect at his position still doesn't change his first round grade.

This guy should be a second rounder like Jimmy G, Derek Carr and Andy Dalton. But somebody will reach.

Originally posted by evil:
Name me all the prospects that were similar to Mac and that had first round grades like Mac that have come out in the last 5 years?

Most don't have first rd grades for a reason. What teams value now has changed over the past 5+ yrs.

Some guys that come to mind though...Josh Rosen and Jared Goff. He reminds me a lot of what Andy Dalton was coming out of college.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jones is more ready now but has a lower ceiling. He may already be as good as he ever will be other than learning the defenses.
Lance has a much higher potential to be truly great but he's also more likely to be a total bust. It's a risk vs reward situation.

You could say that about a lot of Bama prospects coming out of college...ready made players that have already reach what they will be at the next level. That's both good and bad.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
that all this thread is, personal and hyperbole. How many boards have Jones at better than a 4th or 5th ranking ?

4th or 5th best prospect at his position still doesn't change his first round grade.

Not arguing this years grade..but like i said. if it weren't for a qb needy year, the projection might be different

Since 2000, there haven't been 5 QBs taken in the first round except for one year 2018.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Not arguing this years grade..but like i said. if it weren't for a qb needy year, the projection might be different

Since 2000, there haven't been 5 QBs taken in the first round except for one year 2018.

There are QB needy teams every year. Just not always talent to field those needs

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
Name me all the prospects that were similar to Mac and that had first round grades like Mac that have come out in the last 5 years?

Most don't have first rd grades for a reason. What teams value now has changed over the past 5+ yrs.

Some guys that come to mind though...Josh Rosen and Jared Goff. He reminds me a lot of what Andy Dalton was coming out of college.

But he doesn't have Rose's baggage and he apparently is a more cerebral QB than Goff coming out. Dalton is a closer comp but I personally think he is a little better than Dalton was coming out.

The big knock on Mac is he does not have a cannon and he isn't athletic. How important is that to what we want to do offensively? I don't think those knocks affect that and Mac has a chance to be a better version of what Jimmy is.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
that all this thread is, personal and hyperbole. How many boards have Jones at better than a 4th or 5th ranking ?

4th or 5th best prospect at his position still doesn't change his first round grade.

Not arguing this years grade..but like i said. if it weren't for a qb needy year, the projection might be different

Since 2000, there haven't been 5 QBs taken in the first round except for one year 2018.

If you went back one more year though (1999)

Take the need out of the top half of the round and there are still teams that could take a QB like Mac (Chi, WFT, Pitt, NO and Tampa) and sit him for now like GB did with Love (and previously Rodgers) .

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
that all this thread is, personal and hyperbole. How many boards have Jones at better than a 4th or 5th ranking ?

4th or 5th best prospect at his position still doesn't change his first round grade.

Not arguing this years grade..but like i said. if it weren't for a qb needy year, the projection might be different

Since 2000, there haven't been 5 QBs taken in the first round except for one year 2018.

If you went back one more year though (1999)

Take the need out of the top half of the round and there are still teams that could take a QB like Mac (Chi, WFT, Pitt, NO and Tampa) and sit him for now like GB did with Love (and previously Rodgers) .

which those teams except CHI and Wash will probably be better fits for him.

Originally posted by evil:
But he doesn't have Rose's baggage and he apparently is a more cerebral QB than Goff coming out. Dalton is a closer comp but I personally think he is a little better than Dalton was coming out.

The big knock on Mac is he does not have a cannon and he isn't athletic. How important is that to what we want to do offensively? I don't think those knocks affect that and Mac has a chance to be a better version of what Jimmy is.

By all accounts Rosen was the most pro-ready QB in that draft. Tons of in the pocket traits you want and by far a better arm than Jones. I will say from a leadership standpoint night an day. Goff was a air raid QB, who didn't have a s**t ton of experience with reads pre/post snap stuff at Cal. First yr with McVay they go 11-4 and in yr two to the SB...people telling me QBs can learn that s**t are full of it lol.

In an ideal world you just have your QB sit in the pocket, go through his reads, and make a nice accurate throw....that's not reality.

He WILL have to make off script plays, especially starting off in his career. I don't care how "heady" you are as a 17 game starter in college, the NFL is different. You will NOT be the team that's 2 tiers above every team you play week to week. You will have to move and make plays with your legs and make tight window throws outside of the pocket. It's simply the truth of it.

Look at Jimmy in 2019, he wasn't going through a s**t ton of reads...it was play-action/slant, play-action/slant, bootleg to a wide open Kittle, shovel toss to Deebo rinse in repeat with a bunch of pre-snap fluff. Almost 70% of NFL completions come off of a QB's 1st read. We have a HC that's elite at scheming guys open.

I'm not trying to knock Mac. He is who he is though. Stuff that he could be better at he can't get better at. Things that people say Fields/Lance aren't great at are things that can improve.

we will see. Like I said we will probably just take our 15th DL in RD one. Watch Jimmy play okay maybe sneak into the playoffs and be talking about this all over again in a yr

Originally posted by NYniner85:
By all accounts Rosen was the most pro-ready QB in that draft. Tons of in the pocket traits you want and by far a better arm than Jones. I will say from a leadership standpoint night an day. Goff was a air raid QB, who didn't have a s**t ton of experience with reads pre/post snap stuff at Cal. First yr with McVay they go 11-4 and in yr two to the SB...people telling me QBs can learn that s**t are full of it lol.

In an ideal world you just have your QB sit in the pocket, go through his reads, and make a nice accurate throw....that's not reality.

He WILL have to make off script plays, especially starting off in his career. I don't care how "heady" you are as a 17 game starter in college, the NFL is different. You will NOT be the team that's 2 tiers above every team you play week to week. You will have to move and make plays with your legs and make tight window throws outside of the pocket. It's simply the truth of it.

Look at Jimmy in 2019, he wasn't going through a s**t ton of reads...it was play-action/slant, play-action/slant, bootleg to a wide open Kittle, shovel toss to Deebo rinse in repeat with a bunch of pre-snap fluff. Almost 70% of NFL completions come off of a QB's 1st read. We have a HC that's elite at scheming guys open.

I'm not trying to knock Mac. He is who he is though. Stuff that he could be better at he can't get better at. Things that people say Fields/Lance aren't great at are things that can improve.

we will see. Like I said we will probably just take our 15th DL in RD one. Watch Jimmy play okay maybe sneak into the playoffs and be talking about this all over again in a yr

Goff benefitted from having McVay in the headset and that is no secret.

Whether he is the guy or not, Mac is a natural fit here. I personally don't care too much as to who we take, but I do really hope we take one of these QB prospects.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Not arguing this years grade..but like i said. if it weren't for a qb needy year, the projection might be different

Since 2000, there haven't been 5 QBs taken in the first round except for one year 2018.

There are QB needy teams every year. Just not always talent to field those needs

This year has a lot of teams wanting a new QB, much more than prior years. This is why Mac Jones will be taken by pick #10

This is the 2021 draft order for the first 15:

Jacksonville - Trevor Lawrence
Jets - Miller
Miami - Tua not a lock to start, but tending towards him being the QB in 2021
Falcons - QB in the mix - Ryan's replacement
Bengals - Burrow
Philadelphia - QB in the mix - Wentz gone, Eagles FO not sold on Jalen Hurts
Detroit Lions - QB in the mix - Even though they landed Goff, they may still draft a QB (https://www.nfl.com/news/despite-acquiring-jared-goff-lions-leaving-no-stones-unturned-in-approach-to-off)
Carolina - QB in the mix - will move on Teddy Bridgewater
Denver - QB in the mix - Not sold on Lock
Dallas - QB in the mix - up in the air with Prescott
Ny Giants - Daniel Jones
SF - They SAY Garoppolo is the guy but who knows
Chargers - Herbert
Minesota - Cousins
New England - QB in the mix

8 out of the top 15 most likely will be changing QBs. With Lawrence and Wilson probably going 1-2. You have at least 5 teams ahead of SF, that could or will draft a QB (unless they trade or land a QB from another team). Which leaves only Fields and Jones (possibly Lance) in that mix. So Mac Jones will probably go in the 4 - 10 range, with a possible trade up from New England to one of those spots to get Mac Jones.

I've got now got a 1st round grade on Mac, 2nd round tools, 1st round intangibles, 1st round film.

I still can't shake that I have 1st round tools and by things I've seen 1st round intangibles on all the other QB's.

Fields & Wilson also have 1st round film with Lance getting 2nd round or incomplete film grade. That's why I have him 5.

I believe that the Panthers will pick him at 8, and I'd be thrilled.

Originally posted by evil:
Goff benefitted from having McVay in the headset and that is no secret.

Whether he is the guy or not, Mac is a natural fit here. I personally don't care too much as to who we take, but I do really hope we take one of these QB prospects.

What you don't think Kyle is doing that with whatever QB we have?

They don't have a problem with really any QB throwing from structure and reading the plays here, sure there's a downgrade with CJ/BDN (slower to process stuff), but Mullens was very well versed in coverages and the scheme...it's when that play breaks down and they have to improvise, all the QBs here are a deer in headlights.

I think who they pick (if) matters a ton for this regime going forward, just going off what Kyle said end of the yr I think people might be surprised.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Jones is more ready now but has a lower ceiling. He may already be as good as he ever will be other than learning the defenses.
Lance has a much higher potential to be truly great but he's also more likely to be a total bust. It's a risk vs reward situation.

You could say that about a lot of Bama prospects coming out of college...ready made players that have already reach what they will be at the next level. That's both good and bad.

In Jones case it's about physical attributes. He's not raw with a powerful arm like Allen. He isn't really mobile. He does seem to be accurate even on deep passes. He's smart enough to play in the NFL. I just don't how much his physical limitations will hold him back. We see how they hold Jimmy back.