Javon Kinlaw is a Jet!-Pick #14, 2020 NFL Draft.

Originally posted by Nastastical:

Quality run stuffing IDL are available. Legit pass rushing IDL don't usually make it to free agency unless they're older players and reaching the downside of their careers, and even then look how much McCoy just signed for.

I agree. If you're going top 15, it's far better to get the upside of pass rush. You don't necessarily 'need' pass rushers inside but it's certainly a luxury to have at least one who can bring a inside pass rush but that's why they resigned AA. Having 2 inside could be nice.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lol no they aren't. ESPECIALLY ones that can rush the passer. Snacks is a 2 down run stuffer.

Look at all the IDT pass rushers like Suh. Every year these dudes are cut, traded and FA's and they aren't expensive either. Teams are getting rid of those salaries like Buckner and spending elsewhere.

Originally posted by SFrush:

Wow I get that your still bitter we passed on Wirfs but finding a quality 3tech that can rush passer was not going to be that easy.

But it's not a huge need. It's a luxury. It's greedy and may not be a big difference in the effect on wins and losses at the end of the day from what we'd be without him.

You'd still have in nickel:
Ford - AA - Jones/Taylor/Blair - Bosa

Then in base:
AA - Snacks - Jones - Bosa

This guy is going to have to become a game wrecker like Donald/Jarrett/Jones to elevate this DL above the point of primarily run stuffers.

Then you could have used that draft capital for CB or IOL, two positions that'll cost you significantly more down the road.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol no they aren't. ESPECIALLY ones that can rush the passer. Snacks is a 2 down run stuffer.

Look at all the IDT pass rushers like Suh. Every year these dudes are cut, traded and FA's and they aren't expensive either. Teams are getting rid of those salaries like Buckner and spending elsewhere.

eh, I think you are extending the point a bit far. Suh was unstoppable in his early years. He is only average now but that is due to age. The shelf life of IDs is shorter than the rest of the DL because of the high wear-and-tear inside. We didn't get rid of Buckner because he was no longer high quality. It was because he didn't fit in under the cap. I have no doubt Lynch would have given him the $21M if we had the money to spend. Kinlaw is like hitting the reset button on a young Buckner.

Originally posted by dj43:

eh, I think you are extending the point a bit far. Suh was unstoppable in his early years. He is only average now but that is due to age. The shelf life of IDs is shorter than the rest of the DL because of the high wear-and-tear inside. We didn't get rid of Buckner because he was no longer high quality. It was because he didn't fit in under the cap. I have no doubt Lynch would have given him the $21M if we had the money to spend. Kinlaw is like hitting the reset button on a young Buckner.

Right, just noting how many guys like this filter through FA over the last few years. They are so cheap now, you can buy a run stuffer and a 1 do se n interior pass rusher. Or use the run stuffers to help run stunts as well. It's just not a massive need anymore in a passing league unless you have a dominant interior pass rusher. Plus, so many ER's like Bosa, Blair, AA, etc. can rush inside as well.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Lol no they aren't. ESPECIALLY ones that can rush the passer. Snacks is a 2 down run stuffer.

Look at all the IDT pass rushers like Suh. Every year these dudes are cut, traded and FA's and they aren't expensive either. Teams are getting rid of those salaries like Buckner and spending elsewhere.

Ehhh, Suh is like a thousand years old, same with Gerald McCoy. Guys like that aren't valued at their initial desired price tag when the market opens. Teams tend to pick them up in the second, third or fourth waves of FA when the price tag starts to decline into more reasonable values.

Great IDT's with a good deal of tread left on the tires like Donald, Jones, Jarrett, Cox etc are still highly valued.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Look at all the IDT pass rushers like Suh. Every year these dudes are cut, traded and FA's and they aren't expensive either. Teams are getting rid of those salaries like Buckner and spending elsewhere.

What? No they aren't...Suh left in his prime because he wanted a $100M contract and got it...Miami released him after a pro-bowl yr because they're a trash organization that did the same s**t to Tunsil...You telling me elite LTs aren't worth it too? I'm not looking at Miami in regards of how to build a team.

Show me all of these elite pass rushing DTs that are leaving or being cut every off season? Who are all of these studs that are actual pass rushers available every yr?

Yeah the colts had to trade a top 15 pick AND spend $21M a yr to get a great pass rushing DT... SF just so happened to have TWO great pass rushing DTs and chose to keep the cheaper one (and get a higher pick for Buck).

Show me all the top end guards getting traded for top picks? Pro-Bowler Trai Turner got traded for a 33 yr old always inuried Russell Okung this yr

The Pats were trying to trade Thuney, but no one was touching that reportedly.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dj43:
eh, I think you are extending the point a bit far. Suh was unstoppable in his early years. He is only average now but that is due to age. The shelf life of IDs is shorter than the rest of the DL because of the high wear-and-tear inside. We didn't get rid of Buckner because he was no longer high quality. It was because he didn't fit in under the cap. I have no doubt Lynch would have given him the $21M if we had the money to spend. Kinlaw is like hitting the reset button on a young Buckner.

Right, just noting how many guys like this filter through FA over the last few years. They are so cheap now, you can buy a run stuffer and a 1 do se n interior pass rusher. Or use the run stuffers to help run stunts as well. It's just not a massive need anymore in a passing league unless you have a dominant interior pass rusher. Plus, so many ER's like Bosa, Blair, AA, etc. can rush inside as well.

So the real issue is whether or not one believe JK will become a dominant interior pass rusher.

From the film I have seen of him, the answer is "yes." The question is; will that college film translate into the NFL?

ERs can move inside but that very few can do it on the regular. AA is an exception, hence he gets paid. Bosa might. Blair is way overrated on this board, IMO. The reality is that an ER relies on speed and quickness but that does not translate well inside for more than a play or two.

^ And yet, those players are available every off season and some still unemployed.

If you watched Buckner, even when singled up, he wasn't always rushing 100% like you're assuming Kinlaw will do. This is a team pass rush unit. Often times Buckner is slanting or doubling down for a T-E stunt.

To get the value you want, he's going to have to be so effective, teams actually slant protections to him like a Donald and Jarrett or Jones or even Buckner for a minute there before we got Bosa, Ford and AA rolling.

Originally posted by NCommand:

But it's not a huge need. It's a luxury. It's greedy and may not be a big difference in the effect on wins and losses at the end of the day from what we'd be without him.

You'd still have in nickel:
Ford - AA - Jones/Taylor/Blair - Bosa

Then in base:
AA - Snacks - Jones - Bosa

This guy is going to have to become a game wrecker like Donald/Jarrett/Jones to elevate this DL above the point of primarily run stuffers.

Then you could have used that draft capital for CB or IOL, two positions that'll cost you significantly more down the road.

Sacks is NOT a pass rusher, never has been one. Taylor tore his ACL in Dec and Jones has ankles made glass.

This defense is based around the DL. Not the secondary.

You know how I felt about drafting another DT in the 1st. We all get it. Outside of probably lamb he was BPA and was a position of need. It's a long-term need with Jones a FA as well.

Originally posted by evil:

Ehhh, Suh is like a thousand years old, same with Gerald McCoy. Guys like that aren't valued at their initial desired price tag when the market opens. Teams tend to pick them up in the second, third or fourth waves of FA when the price tag starts to decline into more reasonable values.

Great IDT's with a good deal of tread left on the tires like Donald, Jones, Jarrett, Cox etc are still highly valued.

Shanahan Also brought up how there's only a handful of dominant pass rushing DTs in the league.

If you can get your hands on one of them it's a big deal.

For as much as NC is about IOL (Who block DTs) you'd think he'd realize how much of advantage having a elite pass rushing DT is. They require two IOL to block them.

Originally posted by NCommand:

^ And yet, those players are available every off season and some still unemployed.

If you watched Buckner, even when singled up, he wasn't always rushing 100% like you're assuming Kinlaw will do. This is a team pass rush unit. Often times Buckner is slanting or doubling down for a T-E stunt.

To get the value you want, he's going to have to be so effective, teams actually slant protections to him like a Donald and Jarrett or Jones or even Buckner for a minute there before we got Bosa, Ford and AA rolling.

Who are these dominant pass rushing DTs that are still available?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Look at all the IDT pass rushers like Suh. Every year these dudes are cut, traded and FA's and they aren't expensive either. Teams are getting rid of those salaries like Buckner and spending elsewhere.

If Suh wasn't such a head case, he'd still be on the team that drafted him, or on the team that gave him his second contract. His poor attitude and reputation keep him from staying anywhere long, not his lack of ability.

Originally posted by 9er4lyphe:

Like Kyle said you can scheme a good offense with the right players...you need top end talent to have a great defense.