Dee Ford, DE

Originally posted by kansasninerfan:
But he is going to fail his physical. He is guaranteed 11+ million for injury. Its a mess which is explained very well here in this Athletic article. Paid publication so it may not pop open:
Potential savings if the 49ers cut Weston Richburg, Dee Ford – The Athletic (Edit yeah it won't post)

From the article: (Delete if not allowed)
(* Assuming $11.6 million injury guarantee is activated.)

In the event of a pre-June 1 cut, all $14.4 million of Ford's prorated signing bonus money that has yet to hit the cap plus the $11.6 million injury guarantee would flood the books. That'd total a staggering dead money hit of $25.9 million, which would actually make it $5.9 million more expensive for the 49ers to cut Ford than to keep him in 2021.

A post-June 1 cut would allow the 49ers to push $9.6 million of the prorated signing bonus cap hits back to the 2022 books, thereby reducing Ford's 2021 dead money charge to $16.4 million. But although the 49ers would save $3.7 million in this scenario, money they could utilize in a late-summer extension for linebacker Fred Warner, a $16.4 million dead cap is still massively inefficient.

A more creative solution might be needed if the 49ers want to lessen the financial damage to a more palatable level here.

The 49ers might consider again restructuring Ford's contract, this time to pay his injury-guaranteed money as a signing bonus instead of a regular Paragraph 5 base salary. That'd spread out the cap hit over numerous years instead of dumping it all on 2021.

By extension, it might be beneficial for the 49ers to keep Ford on their roster at the veteran league minimum of $1.075 million, even if their worst fears are realized and he's destined to be on injured reserve for all of 2021.

Not cutting Ford would push back potential dead money damage, since accelerations don't happen until an actual release does. If the 49ers wait until 2022 to cut Ford with a post-June 1 designation, they could stretch the dead money hit into 2023 — which is the deal's natural ending point anyway — and open up over $6 million in 2021 cap space.

That might make all of this easier to stomach for them.

This somehow seems wrong. How is the guy physically anyway? Not a single blessed medical fact has been disclosed since week 2. lets give the guy a settlement for 12.5 m to retire, void all other terms, and if he gets healthy in 2023 or 2024 we get first dibs.

Originally posted by kansasninerfan:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If the salary cap is above the 185 million that's projected, then cutting Ford is doable. Also ford refusing to take a pay cut guarantees him to be cut after his physical, because there is going to be not much stopping the 49ers in his contract from cutting him *after* his physical.

But he is going to fail his physical. He is guaranteed 11+ million for injury. Its a mess which is explained very well here in this Athletic article. Paid publication so it may not pop open:
Potential savings if the 49ers cut Weston Richburg, Dee Ford – The Athletic (Edit yeah it won't post)

From the article: (Delete if not allowed)
(* Assuming $11.6 million injury guarantee is activated.)

In the event of a pre-June 1 cut, all $14.4 million of Ford's prorated signing bonus money that has yet to hit the cap plus the $11.6 million injury guarantee would flood the books. That'd total a staggering dead money hit of $25.9 million, which would actually make it $5.9 million more expensive for the 49ers to cut Ford than to keep him in 2021.

A post-June 1 cut would allow the 49ers to push $9.6 million of the prorated signing bonus cap hits back to the 2022 books, thereby reducing Ford's 2021 dead money charge to $16.4 million. But although the 49ers would save $3.7 million in this scenario, money they could utilize in a late-summer extension for linebacker Fred Warner, a $16.4 million dead cap is still massively inefficient.

A more creative solution might be needed if the 49ers want to lessen the financial damage to a more palatable level here.

The 49ers might consider again restructuring Ford's contract, this time to pay his injury-guaranteed money as a signing bonus instead of a regular Paragraph 5 base salary. That'd spread out the cap hit over numerous years instead of dumping it all on 2021.

By extension, it might be beneficial for the 49ers to keep Ford on their roster at the veteran league minimum of $1.075 million, even if their worst fears are realized and he's destined to be on injured reserve for all of 2021.

Not cutting Ford would push back potential dead money damage, since accelerations don't happen until an actual release does. If the 49ers wait until 2022 to cut Ford with a post-June 1 designation, they could stretch the dead money hit into 2023 — which is the deal's natural ending point anyway — and open up over $6 million in 2021 cap space.

That might make all of this easier to stomach for them.

Well I didn't say *when* he was going to be cut , rather that he will be cut if he refuses to restructure. But I get your point about the dead money. It was a bad restructure at a bad time for the 49ers.

But the cap going *up* will help absorb those excess dead money, and there are other players that can be restructured too - to engineer around Dee Fords refusal to restructure (again they are still talking as far as I know). So that 11 million cap hit and 16.4 million cap hit isn't a certainty yet.

Like you said, worst case scenario, they carry him for the 2021 season to avoid the dead money and restructure Jimmy and Richburg, or they can just bite the Bullitt, go heavy in the draft, and dont sign big free agents this offseason. I'm optimistic that won't happen. I think they will make it worth Dee to restructure by giving him more money up front and freeing him up for free agency later. This front office isn't as incompetent as the rams front office, for example.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
This somehow seems wrong. How is the guy physically anyway? Not a single blessed medical fact has been disclosed since week 2. lets give the guy a settlement for 12.5 m to retire, void all other terms, and if he gets healthy in 2023 or 2024 we get first dibs.

I have to hope there is some sort of injury settlement that could be worked out, but if you're guaranteed 11+M in your contract, why take less? The cap hit money in the form of signing bonuses is what it is. That aint going away. Its just a bad contract.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Good for Ford. Screw all NFL teams. Most of the time players are getting hosed. So the Niners are out 11.mm. Who gives a crap. They'll get over it. For Ford its life changing. This isn't a charity. The first chance a team gets to replace you for cheaper they will. Look at Montana, Rice and Brady. There is no loyalty in the NFL. Save your tears for things that really matter.

Isn't this the same reason some of you want to get rid of Jimmy G???

But its okay if Ford takes money while injured right.

Poor comparison. I want to get rid of Jimmy because he sucks. It has nothing to do with loyalty or his phantom injury.

Much much better than Krapernick.

As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

Kaepernick was already trending downward in 2014. Dude had 19 touchdowns, 3369 yards and 10 INTs that season. Imagine if Jimmy put up those numbers here. Those are Nick Mullens numbers.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

Kaepernick was already trending downward in 2014. Dude had 19 touchdowns, 3369 yards and 10 INTs that season. Imagine if Jimmy put up those numbers here. Those are Nick Mullens numbers.

that JAws quote was after the 2012 season

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by lamontb:
s**t it's more on our FO than Dee. They are the dummies that restructured his contract and gave him this injury guarantee. It's not like he was known to be a picture of health before the trade. It's easier for ppl to just get angry at the player b/c he's more easily replaced than the FO. .

True but this is like the only bad contract the front office did. All of our other contracts seem to be voidable.

The NFL should try to give teams cap relief when players go on IR or something. If this happened to a QB who was taking up 20% of a team's cap then this would be devastating.

The void one contract rule

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

Kaepernick was already trending downward in 2014. Dude had 19 touchdowns, 3369 yards and 10 INTs that season. Imagine if Jimmy put up those numbers here. Those are Nick Mullens numbers.

that JAws quote was after the 2012 season

ya was talking about our 12-4 season. after that it started going downhill quickly.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

Kaepernick was already trending downward in 2014. Dude had 19 touchdowns, 3369 yards and 10 INTs that season. Imagine if Jimmy put up those numbers here. Those are Nick Mullens numbers.

that JAws quote was after the 2012 season

ya was talking about our 12-4 season. after that it started going downhill quickly.

thats why i try to explain to woo, ninerGM that 2019 doesn't mean squat.. like 2012 didn't.

Nothing is guaranteed if you don't try to get better, even at QB

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Good for Ford. Screw all NFL teams. Most of the time players are getting hosed. So the Niners are out 11.mm. Who gives a crap. They'll get over it. For Ford its life changing. This isn't a charity. The first chance a team gets to replace you for cheaper they will. Look at Montana, Rice and Brady. There is no loyalty in the NFL. Save your tears for things that really matter.

Isn't this the same reason some of you want to get rid of Jimmy G???

But its okay if Ford takes money while injured right.

Poor comparison. I want to get rid of Jimmy because he sucks. It has nothing to do with loyalty or his phantom injury.

Much much better than Krapernick.

As much as I don't like Kap the QB, Jimmy hasn't come close to being the player that 2014 Kap was. That guy looked like a future HOF, like Jaws and others in the media said.

He definitely had the ability to take over a game.

Originally posted by kansasninerfan:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If the salary cap is above the 185 million that's projected, then cutting Ford is doable. Also ford refusing to take a pay cut guarantees him to be cut after his physical, because there is going to be not much stopping the 49ers in his contract from cutting him *after* his physical.

But he is going to fail his physical. He is guaranteed 11+ million for injury. Its a mess which is explained very well here in this Athletic article. Paid publication so it may not pop open:
Potential savings if the 49ers cut Weston Richburg, Dee Ford – The Athletic (Edit yeah it won't post)

From the article: (Delete if not allowed)
(* Assuming $11.6 million injury guarantee is activated.)

In the event of a pre-June 1 cut, all $14.4 million of Ford's prorated signing bonus money that has yet to hit the cap plus the $11.6 million injury guarantee would flood the books. That'd total a staggering dead money hit of $25.9 million, which would actually make it $5.9 million more expensive for the 49ers to cut Ford than to keep him in 2021.

A post-June 1 cut would allow the 49ers to push $9.6 million of the prorated signing bonus cap hits back to the 2022 books, thereby reducing Ford's 2021 dead money charge to $16.4 million. But although the 49ers would save $3.7 million in this scenario, money they could utilize in a late-summer extension for linebacker Fred Warner, a $16.4 million dead cap is still massively inefficient.

A more creative solution might be needed if the 49ers want to lessen the financial damage to a more palatable level here.

The 49ers might consider again restructuring Ford's contract, this time to pay his injury-guaranteed money as a signing bonus instead of a regular Paragraph 5 base salary. That'd spread out the cap hit over numerous years instead of dumping it all on 2021.

By extension, it might be beneficial for the 49ers to keep Ford on their roster at the veteran league minimum of $1.075 million, even if their worst fears are realized and he's destined to be on injured reserve for all of 2021.

Not cutting Ford would push back potential dead money damage, since accelerations don't happen until an actual release does. If the 49ers wait until 2022 to cut Ford with a post-June 1 designation, they could stretch the dead money hit into 2023 — which is the deal's natural ending point anyway — and open up over $6 million in 2021 cap space.

That might make all of this easier to stomach for them.

Seems reasonable. I wonder how soon are they going to take care of this. I'm sure they have so many moving parts to deal with, but I do believe squaring away both the Dee Ford and Weston Richburg situations would help them out IMMENSELY.

I just want what gives the team the most cap space going forward. If he retires, I think there is a big hit in 2021. We just need to find the least painful out and converting that guarantee into a signing bonus sounds like the best option.

Also, for those who wonder why we restructured him, we had to going into 2020 to create any real cap space for 2020. This is what happens when you spend in free agency. That space we had for years gets eaten up quick- especially with front loaded deals. Considering over half the league right now has no cap space, I think in spite of the bad contracts, and every team has bad contracts, we are doing pretty relative to the league. We have already seen Philly and Carolina beginning the purge. There is about to be a glut of quality veterans on the market with limited funds to sign them. When is the last time there was actually a buyer's market in free agency? We might actually get to see one.

I just wish the Tom Brady effect could lower these quarterback contract numbers. Or just our QB volunteered so we can have the advantage the Patriots enjoyed for over a decade.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Seems reasonable. I wonder how soon are they going to take care of this. I'm sure they have so many moving parts to deal with, but I do believe squaring away both the Dee Ford and Weston Richburg situations would help them out IMMENSELY.

I just want what gives the team the most cap space going forward. If he retires, I think there is a big hit in 2021. We just need to find the least painful out and converting that guarantee into a signing bonus sounds like the best option.

Also, for those who wonder why we restructured him, we had to going into 2020 to create any real cap space for 2020. This is what happens when you spend in free agency. That space we had for years gets eaten up quick- especially with front loaded deals. Considering over half the league right now has no cap space, I think in spite of the bad contracts, and every team has bad contracts, we are doing pretty relative to the league. We have already seen Philly and Carolina beginning the purge. There is about to be a glut of quality veterans on the market with limited funds to sign them. When is the last time there was actually a buyer's market in free agency? We might actually get to see one.

I just wish the Tom Brady effect could lower these quarterback contract numbers. Or just our QB volunteered so we can have the advantage the Patriots enjoyed for over a decade.

Well, Richburg is gone. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Ford though. He's still due quiet a bit even if we cut him. I think a lot will depend what happens with Hyder. If we can't bring him back, I expect Ford to be back then.

And the Tom Brady thing just isn't gonna happen. He had his rich wife as well, otherwise, he would've never taken those pay cuts. Pat probably has the friendliest deal for a team. 40 mil a year is gonna look like a steal in 5 years from now.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Well, Richburg is gone. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Ford though. He's still due quiet a bit even if we cut him. I think a lot will depend what happens with Hyder. If we can't bring him back, I expect Ford to be back then.

And the Tom Brady thing just isn't gonna happen. He had his rich wife as well, otherwise, he would've never taken those pay cuts. Pat probably has the friendliest deal for a team. 40 mil a year is gonna look like a steal in 5 years from now.

That assumes that he doesn't hold out for more if someone signs a bigger contract. They might even extend him and give him a bonus to keep that from happening.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Well, Richburg is gone. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Ford though. He's still due quiet a bit even if we cut him. I think a lot will depend what happens with Hyder. If we can't bring him back, I expect Ford to be back then.

And the Tom Brady thing just isn't gonna happen. He had his rich wife as well, otherwise, he would've never taken those pay cuts. Pat probably has the friendliest deal for a team. 40 mil a year is gonna look like a steal in 5 years from now.

That assumes that he doesn't hold out for more if someone signs a bigger contract. They might even extend him and give him a bonus to keep that from happening.

i thought i read that Mahomes pay goes up when the cap goes up. A percentage base deal

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Well, Richburg is gone. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Ford though. He's still due quiet a bit even if we cut him. I think a lot will depend what happens with Hyder. If we can't bring him back, I expect Ford to be back then.

We are f**ked if this is their approach. Losing Hyder AND keeping Ford means Nick Bosa will be out there alone on the field with zero help. This means teams can double, chip, and cut him all game, which will likely result in injury.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Well, Richburg is gone. I wouldn't be surprised if we keep Ford though. He's still due quiet a bit even if we cut him. I think a lot will depend what happens with Hyder. If we can't bring him back, I expect Ford to be back then.

We are f**ked if this is their approach. Losing Hyder AND keeping Ford means Nick Bosa will be out there alone on the field with zero help. This means teams can double, chip, and cut him all game, which will likely result in injury.

I just don't think this FO is willing to overpay for him. And idk if I would be okay with that either. If some team gives him a great contract, I doubt we try and match.