Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
16th? Check your facts dude. 29th in the league in run D sounds about right.

Sorry, need to clarify...I use yards per average carry to judge the run defense and the niners have moved from last in 2016 to 16th this year. Since the 9ers are behind in every game the other team is able to run the game out rather than passing. Still...29th is better than 32.

Just checked...you are incorrect as well...they are 30th in total run defense, but they jumped up to 15th in average yards per carry.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Watson had 8800 yards passing in 2 playoff seasons at college he never was Kap, Griffin. His rookie year he's already lapping those guys. If he came he'd struggle because we're not as good as Houston but he'd flash brilliance like he is now.

I found myself super intrigued by Watson. The intangibles were crystal clear. His ability to step up in big games was huge and he's just a really nice kid and one you know will not cause any problems off the field.

But at the same time his offense at Clemson was "easy" in a way and I can't help but think back to Kap and how excited I was about him and he came out of school being super humble, super driven and all about football. We know how that went. I don't think the same thing will happen with Watson but having Shanahan pass on him in the draft tells me what I need to know. Not saying it wasn't a huge mistake and Watson wouldn't have done great things in Kyle's offense but I'll give KS the benefit of the doubt.

They brought him in, they evaluated him...obviously whether they felt he wasn't the right fit or going with Thomas and trying to sign Cousins and drafting Beathard to groom him was the better way to go...hard to say now.

But honestly the way our line was yesterday...can you see Watson having a lot of success there?

Originally posted by genus49:
I found myself super intrigued by Watson. The intangibles were crystal clear. His ability to step up in big games was huge and he's just a really nice kid and one you know will not cause any problems off the field.

But at the same time his offense at Clemson was "easy" in a way and I can't help but think back to Kap and how excited I was about him and he came out of school being super humble, super driven and all about football. We know how that went. I don't think the same thing will happen with Watson but having Shanahan pass on him in the draft tells me what I need to know. Not saying it wasn't a huge mistake and Watson wouldn't have done great things in Kyle's offense but I'll give KS the benefit of the doubt.

They brought him in, they evaluated him...obviously whether they felt he wasn't the right fit or going with Thomas and trying to sign Cousins and drafting Beathard to groom him was the better way to go...hard to say now.

But honestly the way our line was yesterday...can you see Watson having a lot of success there?

I just think Shanny wants Cousins. I don't think it was anything against Watson, Trubisky he just wanted his former guy. I bought that too but it doesn't matter why you passed on Jordan you f'd up. If Watson ends up being the real deal we'll be regretting it.

Originally posted by genus49:
People are coming in here making statements like

Thomas is invisible
Thomas has done nothing

That's straight up false. He's been quit stat wise the last couple of games as teams have tried to attack the guys we've brought in off the streets. The week before he led the team in tackles and had a sack off Trent Williams. He's been nominated for Pepsi Rookie of the Week award 3 times.

The idea that he's been invisible and has done nothing is crazy. Last I checked guys who do nothing don't get nominated for awards along with players like Watson, Kareem Hunt and Leonard Fournette....who play much sexier positions.

Sully has shown flashes. He's shown good and he's shown bad. He's being asked to move all around, he's being asked to drop into coverage and cover TEs for crying out loud. He's 21 years old and didn't get to participate in mini camps.

I'd say the flashes he's shown, his athletic ability and his drive to improve predict good things rather than the idea that he's going to be a mediocre at best player like people are trying to claim.

And what I think is pathetic is how many people who consider themselves 49er fans would rather see this kid fail so they can play the "I told you we should've drafted X"

I have my draft favorites like everyone else but anytime the team drafts a player I wasn't a huge fan off I would LOVE to be wrong because it means the team is doing well.

How sad is your personal life that you have to essentially root against the team's success so you can be proven right on a message board with strangers?

Very good post! Imagine the NFL nominating a bad player for rookie of the week...sad... LOL!

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I just think Shanny wants Cousins. I don't think it was anything against Watson, Trubisky he just wanted his former guy. I bought that too but it doesn't matter why you passed on Jordan you f'd up. If Watson ends up being the real deal we'll be regretting it.

and so will the Browns who should have drafted him ahead of us

Originally posted by genus49:
People are coming in here making statements like

Thomas is invisible
Thomas has done nothing

That's straight up false. He's been quit stat wise the last couple of games as teams have tried to attack the guys we've brought in off the streets. The week before he led the team in tackles and had a sack off Trent Williams. He's been nominated for Pepsi Rookie of the Week award 3 times.

The idea that he's been invisible and has done nothing is crazy. Last I checked guys who do nothing don't get nominated for awards along with players like Watson, Kareem Hunt and Leonard Fournette....who play much sexier positions.

Sully has shown flashes. He's shown good and he's shown bad. He's being asked to move all around, he's being asked to drop into coverage and cover TEs for crying out loud. He's 21 years old and didn't get to participate in mini camps.

I'd say the flashes he's shown, his athletic ability and his drive to improve predict good things rather than the idea that he's going to be a mediocre at best player like people are trying to claim.

And what I think is pathetic is how many people who consider themselves 49er fans would rather see this kid fail so they can play the "I told you we should've drafted X"

I have my draft favorites like everyone else but anytime the team drafts a player I wasn't a huge fan off I would LOVE to be wrong because it means the team is doing well.

How sad is your personal life that you have to essentially root against the team's success so you can be proven right on a message board with strangers?

Hey man, when talking about the 49ers, particularly on the Zone, I like to provide a gut check to some of the more outlandish stuff that gets thrown around, not because I want it to be the case, but because quite frankly people need to know what the case is likely going to be. Thomas has been fine, not great but fine. Optimism is great, we all need a little bit of it, however at the same time reality needs to play a part of the equation as well. I like honest in-depth analysis of the 49ers which is why I prefer to post most often in non-49ers dedicated spaces because that's where you get the best perspective.

Homers annoy me every bit as much as the trolls do, probably more to be honest. Thomas hasn't blown through his potential, and still has a great opportunity to be a high quality player for this team, BUT as the 3rd overall draft pick in a team desperately starved for talent, he needs to improve his trajectory from where he is right now. The 49ers rebuild doesn't default to going great with me just because they're rebuilding. I'm simply trying to see how and why they're closing that talent gap.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:
I found myself super intrigued by Watson. The intangibles were crystal clear. His ability to step up in big games was huge and he's just a really nice kid and one you know will not cause any problems off the field.

But at the same time his offense at Clemson was "easy" in a way and I can't help but think back to Kap and how excited I was about him and he came out of school being super humble, super driven and all about football. We know how that went. I don't think the same thing will happen with Watson but having Shanahan pass on him in the draft tells me what I need to know. Not saying it wasn't a huge mistake and Watson wouldn't have done great things in Kyle's offense but I'll give KS the benefit of the doubt.

They brought him in, they evaluated him...obviously whether they felt he wasn't the right fit or going with Thomas and trying to sign Cousins and drafting Beathard to groom him was the better way to go...hard to say now.

But honestly the way our line was yesterday...can you see Watson having a lot of success there?

I just think Shanny wants Cousins. I don't think it was anything against Watson, Trubisky he just wanted his former guy. I bought that too but it doesn't matter why you passed on Jordan you f'd up. If Watson ends up being the real deal we'll be regretting it.

He would regret for life if he signs Cousins anyway.

Not only is Cousins not good enough (that is if you want to win championships), it would be pure laziness on his part if he just signs Cousins instead of trying to find that very special gem in the draft.

Or may be he just doesn't have the confidence to find that FQB in the draft?

People keep forgetting, Shanahan has already limited our chances of finding the next Joe Montana by 50% from the get-go. Why? Because he has already said he only wants a pocket passer. By that definition alone, he would have never ever drafted Watson even if he didn't take Thomas and Foster, again simply because Watson is a mobile QB.

At this juncture, you really have to question his judgement. Let's face it, not that I am a huge Kap fan per se, but he would have done better than Hoyer and Beathard and yes as a mobile QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
and so will the Browns who should have drafted him ahead of us

They could of had Watson and Garrett if they wanted. Nobody knows how to screw things up like Cleveland.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
The irrelevant comparisons on this board are getting ridiculous...

Only in a season where the team is 0-8 do people start mentioning that Walsh was 0-7...it doesn't matter. Has zero to do with where the team is now, or where it's headed.

Same with Thomas. "Oh Justin Smith only had 2 sacks in 2007".

None of that matters. It's what the team is now, and what you see. And what most should see is an 0-8 team with very few, if any, bright spots. Thomas looks exactly like what many thought he'd be--incredibly underwhelming for a 3rd overall pick.

No, what's ridiculous is how people like you don't see the big picture. Let me explain this again:

The 49ers EXPECTED to lose this year. John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan were not planning on winning many games this year. In fact, in getting rid of Vance McDonald, cutting Bowman, and fielding offers from Hyde, the were in a quiet "tank" mode. They're looking for maximum cap space and, secretly, hoping for the highest draft selection possible. This is just a season they planned on getting through, not expecting to win very many games and not caring about that part of it at all.

Their goal is to develop the rookies and get to the next off-season. That's it.

This is exactly the same as the 1979 49ers in concept. Now, the question is whether or not Lynch/Shanahan will be able to improve the team in the coming years the way Walsh and McVay did. We have no idea about that part.

But this season is going according to plan, other than the injuries. This is more or less exactly what the team's decision makers expected as far as results on the field.

The main concern right now is Foster seems to be a walking injury. He came out with injury concerns, and so far, he has carried that over into the NFL. If he is, in fact, injury-prone, they probably missed on this pick.

Thomas, on the other hand, is at his floor. People don't seem to look at it this way. He will never be worse than he is this year, playing out of position (he is a 3-4 DE/4-3 DT), and while his pass rush from wide 9 is objectively terrible, his run defense is already good and will get better when he starts to get more comfortable with the system and pro game. On the few plays where he has been inside, he has shown the potential to be special as an inside pass rusher as well, as we saw when he lined up at nose tackle and drilled Wentz to prevent a TD yesterday. He is already a dangerous inside rusher, and he is doing this with plenty of room for technical improvement. And this is a guy with a non-stop work ethic, so he's going to improve, assuming he stays healthy.

Guys who miss in the draft do it for one or more of the following reasons:

1. Lack of physical talent (obviously, Thomas does not lack this).
2. Lack of work ethic (obviously, Thomas does not lack this).
3. Criminal issues (I think we'd all be shocked if this ever became an issue for Thomas)
4. Injuries. This one, however, you can never really predict. The guys who are injury-prone in college tend to carry that over to the NFL, but there are guys who had no injury problems in college who become walking injuries in the NFL (Russell Okung).

As for the, "but what about his size?" crap...aside from the fact that that doesn't really matter, Thomas could be at 280+ by next month if he wanted. It's not hard for an athlete to gain weight.

And as for Justin Smith - he was an edge rusher in college. Of course he would do better there than Thomas. Thomas is a defensive tackle who is being compared to edge rushers because the 49ers have insisted on using him as an edge rusher. You guys see a guy who doesn't compare to Myles Garrett or even Derrick Barnett coming off the edge. What I'm seeing is the 49ers taking a rookie Bryant Young or Aaron Donald and telling him to try to beat offensive tackles off the edge.

Originally posted by McClusky:
Hey man, when talking about the 49ers, particularly on the Zone, I like to provide a gut check to some of the more outlandish stuff that gets thrown around, not because I want it to be the case, but because quite frankly people need to know what the case is likely going to be. Thomas has been fine, not great but fine. Optimism is great, we all need a little bit of it, however at the same time reality needs to play a part of the equation as well. I like honest in-depth analysis of the 49ers which is why I prefer to post most often in non-49ers dedicated spaces because that's where you get the best perspective.

Homers annoy me every bit as much as the trolls do, probably more to be honest. Thomas hasn't blown through his potential, and still has a great opportunity to be a high quality player for this team, BUT as the 3rd overall draft pick in a team desperately starved for talent, he needs to improve his trajectory from where he is right now. The 49ers rebuild doesn't default to going great with me just because they're rebuilding. I'm simply trying to see how and why they're closing that talent gap.

Optimism is not the same thing as being a homer I would think. My assessment of the team was that it would take at least a year to turn around (probably more) and that they needed to find a QB before they can be competitive with the all around talent level they currently have. That said...I don't need to post this with every evaluation of every player. When I watch improved run defense I can appreciate it as a sign that the DL is improved. Sadly, they did not pick up an OLB or DE who is a premier pass rush specialist until Dumervil, who might be OK. At least he has/had ability.

If the high picks should always be great their rookie year can you give examples of league leaders the past five years? Sack leaders? Passing leaders? Now Watson is looking like the best QB from the draft last year, yet he was third QB taken at #12. Or did he wind up in a pretty good position compared to the other two? Mahomes may eventually be the best of the bunch, but who knows. He's on the bench...is he a bust?

My view is that Thomas has shown enough to be encouraged he will be an integral part of the team's future and might just become a dynamic player. The scouting reports on the guy were that he needed to get comfortable before reaching an elite level. True in college and it may be true in the NFL. He did have a significant stunting due to his graduation date at Stanford. This is factual and not a sign of rose colored glasses.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by genus49:
I found myself super intrigued by Watson. The intangibles were crystal clear. His ability to step up in big games was huge and he's just a really nice kid and one you know will not cause any problems off the field.

But at the same time his offense at Clemson was "easy" in a way and I can't help but think back to Kap and how excited I was about him and he came out of school being super humble, super driven and all about football. We know how that went. I don't think the same thing will happen with Watson but having Shanahan pass on him in the draft tells me what I need to know. Not saying it wasn't a huge mistake and Watson wouldn't have done great things in Kyle's offense but I'll give KS the benefit of the doubt.

They brought him in, they evaluated him...obviously whether they felt he wasn't the right fit or going with Thomas and trying to sign Cousins and drafting Beathard to groom him was the better way to go...hard to say now.

But honestly the way our line was yesterday...can you see Watson having a lot of success there?

I just think Shanny wants Cousins. I don't think it was anything against Watson, Trubisky he just wanted his former guy. I bought that too but it doesn't matter why you passed on Jordan you f'd up. If Watson ends up being the real deal we'll be regretting it.

He would regret for life if he signs Cousins anyway.

Not only is Cousins not good enough (that is if you want to win championships), it would be pure laziness on his part if he just signs Cousins instead of trying to find that very special gem in the draft.

Or may be he just doesn't have the confidence to find that FQB in the draft?

People keep forgetting, Shanahan has already limited our chances of finding the next Joe Montana by 50% from the get-go. Why? Because he has already said he only wants a pocket passer. By that definition alone, he would have never ever drafted Watson even if he didn't take Thomas and Foster, again simply because Watson is a mobile QB.

At this juncture, you really have to question his judgement. Let's face it, not that I am a huge Kap fan per se, but he would have done better than Hoyer and Beathard and yes as a mobile QB.

1. Cousins is absolutely good enough to win Super Bowls. Lightning-quick release, intelligent, excellent mechanics, accurate. He's just not the kind of guy you want slinging it around 40 times per game, but nobody wins Super Bowls doing that anyway. Not even Brady, as the Patriots figured out in recent years. You have to have a strong running game to compliment Cousins, which is something the Redskins haven't given him. They're telling him to win games slinging it 40 times per game, and this year, with a mediocre receiving corps.

2. "Pocket passer" does not mean "not mobile." It means a guy who primarily stands in the pocket and goes through his reads. That's the only thing I would ever want. Steve Young was a pocket passer who also had excellent mobility. I despise quarterbacks who aren't pocket passers.

3. Watson is not as good as people think, and everyone will be finding that out soon. He is already at his ceiling as a player this year. The sloppiness, the INTs...those are part of who he is. He's a limited guy who just happens to have the confidence of a veteran. Beathard is the same way - as a rookie, you can see who he will always be. He's not going to get over being nervous and unsure in order to improve because he never was nervous or unsure. From day 1, he was plenty comfortable on the field...he just isn't that good.

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

1. Cousins is absolutely good enough to win Super Bowls. Lightning-quick release, intelligent, excellent mechanics, accurate. He's just not the kind of guy you want slinging it around 40 times per game, but nobody wins Super Bowls doing that anyway. Not even Brady, as the Patriots figured out in recent years. You have to have a strong running game to compliment Cousins, which is something the Redskins haven't given him. They're telling him to win games slinging it 40 times per game, and this year, with a mediocre receiving corps.

2. "Pocket passer" does not mean "not mobile." It means a guy who primarily stands in the pocket and goes through his reads. That's the only thing I would ever want. Steve Young was a pocket passer who also had excellent mobility. I despise quarterbacks who aren't pocket passers.

3. Watson is not as good as people think, and everyone will be finding that out soon. He is already at his ceiling as a player this year. The sloppiness, the INTs...those are part of who he is. He's a limited guy who just happens to have the confidence of a veteran. Beathard is the same way - as a rookie, you can see who he will always be. He's not going to get over being nervous and unsure in order to improve because he never was nervous or unsure. From day 1, he was plenty comfortable on the field...he just isn't that good.

The fact that he calls it lazy to sign Kirk is enough to I guess we shouldn't sign any free agents then.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Optimism is not the same thing as being a homer I would think. My assessment of the team was that it would take at least a year to turn around (probably more) and that they needed to find a QB before they can be competitive with the all around talent level they currently have. That said...I don't need to post this with every evaluation of every player. When I watch improved run defense I can appreciate it as a sign that the DL is improved. Sadly, they did not pick up an OLB or DE who is a premier pass rush specialist until Dumervil, who might be OK. At least he has/had ability.

If the high picks should always be great their rookie year can you give examples of league leaders the past five years? Sack leaders? Passing leaders? Now Watson is looking like the best QB from the draft last year, yet he was third QB taken at #12. Or did he wind up in a pretty good position compared to the other two? Mahomes may eventually be the best of the bunch, but who knows. He's on the bench...is he a bust?

My view is that Thomas has shown enough to be encouraged he will be an integral part of the team's future and might just become a dynamic player. The scouting reports on the guy were that he needed to get comfortable before reaching an elite level. True in college and it may be true in the NFL. He did have a significant stunting due to his graduation date at Stanford. This is factual and not a sign of rose colored glasses.

Would ya look at that common sense

Originally posted by Rascal:
He would regret for life if he signs Cousins anyway.

Not only is Cousins not good enough (that is if you want to win championships), it would be pure laziness on his part if he just signs Cousins instead of trying to find that very special gem in the draft.

Or may be he just doesn't have the confidence to find that FQB in the draft?

People keep forgetting, Shanahan has already limited our chances of finding the next Joe Montana by 50% from the get-go. Why? Because he has already said he only wants a pocket passer. By that definition alone, he would have never ever drafted Watson even if he didn't take Thomas and Foster, again simply because Watson is a mobile QB.

At this juncture, you really have to question his judgement. Let's face it, not that I am a huge Kap fan per se, but he would have done better than Hoyer and Beathard and yes as a mobile QB.

To me it's a simple as do you want to win sooner rather than later.

Cousins may not be Tom Brady but if he hits the open market he will be the best QB to hit the open market since Drew Brees(who really wasn't even nearly as good as Cousins has been at the time and had injury concerns so much that QB needy Dolphins didn't want to sign him)

He knows Cousins, he trusts him. Signing him would allow us to use our draft capital on other positions...hell we could sign Cousins and still draft QB early then let the best man win.

I think signing Cousins is the best move. Give him a contract that's front loaded that will give us an out if we groom someone better and make him easier to trade if it comes to it. Also make it so we have cap room to extend our own guys once their contracts start running out.

Hopefully get a large haul for our likely #1 or #2 overall pick to another QB needy team who may think they're one guy away and don't have the room to sign a Cousins.

There are some really good players likely available in this class and we may still have a good QB to develop in rounds 2-3.

Drafting a QB with #1 or #2 overall is a risk any year. You want to complain about Thomas but if you don't get an ELITE level QB out of that pick it's somewhat underwhelming as well.

You want to say Cousins isn't good enough if you want to win Championships...which QBs are?

We'd be fools not to take Cousins but I don't think he's a SB qb. You're always going to run into someone better and the odds of building an elite d with a 150 mil qb is not good. Not good at all.