Solomon Thomas, DT

Originally posted by genus49:

lol...ok

Can you explain to me how Soloman is better?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

agreed...Watson seems to have those Wilson type qualities and while he threw for a buttload of yards and TDs he also threw 3 INTs yesterday (and a pick 6). That was my main issue with him in college...how will he translate to a pro-style and can he actually not be a turnover machine.

Kyle wants who he wants at QB and like you said we brought him in for his scheme. So why not find the guy who best fits that? They got LT deals so they could have time to find the right guys.

People can't be patient apparently.

Actually you're right. I'm not a fan of being the league's laughing stock.

Originally posted by genus49:
Ever think our coaches teach different things and expect different things out of our corners? We're playing Thomas all over the place instead of keeping him in role that he's most comfortable in....yet you expect same results as Lattimore has in New Orleans?

Maybe you can mix and match in Madden easy enough but time and time again we've seen successful players go to different teams and suddenly drop off in play.

Nnamdi Asomugha is probably one of the better examples.

Thomas is a tweener in any scheme and we always planned to move him around. The tweener part was his big concern though. As much as people want to say we're playing him out of position, AA has already went down and we're still playing ST at Leo. That's just where we see him right now. You can keep him off double teams for the most part and let the bigger AA, Douzable handle them.

If you can't work with a corner who shadows his opponent that's on you. Perhaps getting paid changed Asomugha. There always can be more than 1 favor to a person's decline.

Originally posted by genus49:
Explains why there are none to be found in your posts.

What seems like common sense...

Let a young kid play and see what he turns into before his rookie contract is up....or judge him as a finished product midway through his rookie season?

I'm sure ol' Stevie hated Buck last yr and called him a bust after half the season

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Good. Leger Douzable is 10x the player Soloman is.

lol...ok

I didnt even bother responding to him.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
So let me get this straight.

We are not allowed to be concerned with Soloman's poor play because he is a rookie and we are supposed to wait 4 year until his rookie contract is up to reserve judgment and the rookies who are playing well elsewhere would suck here too.

Gotcha.

For the record on Watson. Y'all better go check how Fuller and Hopkins did last year without Watson. Also, is their Oline better than ours? Is Miller better than Hyde? Is their group of unknown TE's better than ours? Is O'Brien a better coach than Shanny?

The answers to those are NO.

Nobody said you can't be concerned. I wish Sully was showing a lot more than he has and played a lot more consistently.

However pretending like he's done nothing and acting like he'll always do nothing is not the same thing as hoping he'd be showing up better than he has.

Last I checked btw Hopkins was a pro bowl receiver well before Watson got to Houston. And does Watson throw a better deep ball than Osweiler? Absolutely. Is your point that Watson is better than Osweiler? The QB the Browns didn't even keep on the roster? And as for unknown TEs...how known are ours?

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Can you explain to me how Soloman is better?

How about we compare them after Sully gets 9 years in the league?

If you want to throw our ridiculous statements then back them up.

How is a guy in his 9th year in the league at 31 years old 10 times better than Sully when he averages 11 tackles and .9 sacks a year....

I look forward to your expert evaluation.

Originally posted by genus49:

Watson IMO is the only guy you can make a case for over Thomas at this point

Are you for real? Seriously man. I know you're a homer but this is getting out of hand.

We don't have one corner who would be a starter on another team so we pass on Marshon Lattimore.

Ward sucks at safety and is always hurt so we pass on the perfect safety for this scheme and a true ballhawk in Malik Hooker.

We don't have a LEO so we pass on the guy who broke Reggie Whites sack record in Derek Barnett.

Tartt had one nice pick and other than that he has been average at best and Reid sucks and is one concussion from never playing again so we pass on a tone setter and team leader in Jamal Adams.

Hyde is a free agent after the year and cant stay healthy so we pass on the league top runner in Leonard Fournette.

Apparently Shanahan thinks he can develop any QB so we pass on an ACC stud and the league's best QB right now in Deshaun Watson. If we don't land Cousins next year this one will haunt us for a decade.

You keep talking about how we draft for the future and I agree but all 6 of those guys would make this team better and might have helped us win some of those close games we lost. Instead we model the Detroit Lions and take 3 redundant players back to back to back and go into next year with the exact same needs we had last year.

Originally posted by genus49:

How about we compare them after Sully gets 9 years in the league?

If you want to throw our ridiculous statements then back them up.

How is a guy in his 9th year in the league at 31 years old 10 times better than Sully when he averages 11 tackles and .9 sacks a year....

I look forward to your expert evaluation.

At this point I would he surprised if Soloman plays 9 years.

Douzable is better right now than the 3rd overall pick. That's all the evaluation that needs to be said.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'm sure ol' Stevie hated Buck last yr and called him a bust after half the season

70 tackles and 6 sacks. Buck was awesome as a rookie from day 1. Soloman has done nothing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
agreed...Watson seems to have those Wilson type qualities and while he threw for a buttload of yards and TDs he also threw 3 INTs yesterday (and a pick 6). That was my main issue with him in college...how will he translate to a pro-style and can he actually not be a turnover machine.

Kyle wants who he wants at QB and like you said we brought him in for his scheme. So why not find the guy who best fits that? They got LT deals so they could have time to find the right guys.

People can't be patient apparently.

Over 2-1 td to int ratio as a rookie. It was an up and down outing vs Seattle but it's not like they're the best d in league or anything. Watson is like Wilson on steroids. The turnovers may still be there but he legit has 4500-5000 30-35 td potential.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm sure ol' Stevie hated Buck last yr and called him a bust after half the season

70 tackles and 6 sacks. Buck was awesome as a rookie from day 1. Soloman has done nothing.

19 tackles and 3 sacks thru 8 games those where bucks numbers...and he played league high snaps

22 tackles and 2 sacks thru 8 games for Thomas in the same time span with less snaps.

SO that one extra sack made Buck "awesome" from day 1

IF so I call b******t on that sir.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by genus49:

Watson IMO is the only guy you can make a case for over Thomas at this point

Are you for real? Seriously man. I know you're a homer but this is getting out of hand.

We don't have one corner who would be a starter on another team so we pass on Marshon Lattimore.

Ward sucks at safety and is always hurt so we pass on the perfect safety for this scheme and a true ballhawk in Malik Hooker.

We don't have a LEO so we pass on the guy who broke Reggie Whites sack record in Derek Barnett.

Tartt had one nice pick and other than that he has been average at best and Reid sucks and is one concussion from never playing again so we pass on a tone setter and team leader in Jamal Adams.

Hyde is a free agent after the year and cant stay healthy so we pass on the league top runner in Leonard Fournette.

Apparently Shanahan thinks he can develop any QB so we pass on an ACC stud and the league's best QB right now in Deshaun Watson. If we don't land Cousins next year this one will haunt us for a decade.

You keep talking about how we draft for the future and I agree but all 6 of those guys would make this team better and might have helped us win some of those close games we lost. Instead we model the Detroit Lions and take 3 redundant players back to back to back and go into next year with the exact same needs we had last year.

If you like Watson so bad, follow Houston. Like it or not, he's not a fit for shanahan so it wasn't going to happen. Their is still no guarantee Watson is going to continue playing at a high level either. If we knew everything we needed to know about a mobil quarterback after 8 games starting, Kap and RG3 would be all pros right now. Don't be surprised if the league catches up to Watson once their is more tape of him at the NFL level. Than you bring up Douzable and his one great game in forever..............

Originally posted by McClusky:
Eh to be fair to the poster above, it's far more likely that Solomon Thomas under performs his draft expectations given the trends of players with similar starts to him than he turns into a late bloomer all pro caliber player. A JJ Watt comp isn't a particularly good one because JJ Watt was a stud in his rookie season finishing top 2 in run stop % among 3-4 DE, and top 7 among 3-4 DE in pass rush productivity his rookie season. He was more comparable to what Buckner is now than what Thomas is now.

dtg isn't necessarily talking sense, he's more just trying to find an optimistic silver lining. Solomon Thomas isn't a bust because he had an underwhelming 8 game start to his career, but if you look at the trend lines for comparable situations, things don't bode well for him becoming a franchise level defensive player simply considering the most likely outcome of similar populations. Guys like Watt, Donald, Peterson, Kuechly, Suh, Miller, Berry, Thomas, and Mack were studs year one when given substantial playing time. The longer it takes someone to break out, the more their ceiling trendline pushes downward. Maybe a better comp for Thomas may be Cameron Jordan.

Not at all. I do tend to enjoy optimism but facts can matter. Last year the 9ers were 32nd in the NFL in run defense, this year they are 16th. You can make of that what you will but the run defense seems to be better and a large part of it is the maturation of the young guys, better depth and the addition of Thomas. With Bowman gone I'm not sure how they will hold up but thus far so good.

It seems that every time I notice a niner DL penetrating and forcing a run to adjust it's either Buckner or Thomas. My problem with the negative talk is that many fans watch for flash plays--mostly sacks-and they don't watch the play by play. Last year I was quite concerned with Buckner getting pushed out of position half the time, but I also realized he was a rookie. Thomas looks much better this year than Buckner looked last year.

The funny thing about this argument is that I would not have picked Thomas last year in the draft. I would have traded back and gone after either a QB, WR, or CB. Corey Davis, Watson, Mahomes, Lattimore...there were a lot of guys I liked. And with the added pick they might have taken Foster and another late first rounder...an OLB like McKinley or Watt.

Thomas also fits the new scheme better than either Buckner or Armstead. So there are many logical reasons to support Thomas--his play being one.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
agreed...Watson seems to have those Wilson type qualities and while he threw for a buttload of yards and TDs he also threw 3 INTs yesterday (and a pick 6). That was my main issue with him in college...how will he translate to a pro-style and can he actually not be a turnover machine.

Kyle wants who he wants at QB and like you said we brought him in for his scheme. So why not find the guy who best fits that? They got LT deals so they could have time to find the right guys.

People can't be patient apparently.

I'd say there is being patient and there is evaluating the status of something as it goes. At the end of the day, the best predictor of future success of young players is current success of young players. To the extent that a player is not excelling early, diminishes the likelihood that they'll excel later. The 49ers are chasing a large talent gap with 30 of the 32 teams in the league. If other teams are getting young players who are doing great early, (Which a lot of the league has done with the 2017 class) then the 49ers aren't closing that gap. People like to look at this team 3-4 years down the line, but other teams are making moves too, and aren't staying a static entity.