Kirk Cousins

Originally posted by Rascal:
Yes, run of the mill i.e. with the main pack. There is nothing wrong with that. Noone is saying he is sh*t. I have long qualified my statement by saying Cousins is an OK QB, not bad, but not great neither. Many QBs make a honest living being run of the mill. That goes to show my objectivity from the get go.

All those statistical categories that you just mentioned sound great, don't they? But, unfortunately that is as far as they go, in other words, just stats.

Tell me, what is the single most important statistical category of any given football team?

That would be the Win/Loss column.

And in order to win games, what do you need to do?

You need to score TDs, put points on the board to outscore your opponent.

This is where the problem lies with Cousins. He just can't get it done. He pads up his stats with a ton of yards, all 4,900+ yards and that's all people see as they cream in their pants right away.

What happens in reality? The guy leads the drives all the way from the 20 yard line to the red zone and then stalls, just can't move the ball anymore or score TDs and more than often only ends up with 3 instead of 7.

How do I know that? Have you seen his completion rate in the red zone?

Inside the 10 yard line, his completion rate is a pathetic 31.58%.

And do you know how does that rank amongst the rest of the QBs in the league?

Dead last apart from Bryce Petty and Nick Foles who only played a handful of games last season.

That's a problem, wouldn't you say?

In fact, failure to execute in the red zone is a huge deal. Teams practice red zone execution to death during the week, that is how critical it is. Why? Because is absolutely pointless when you are chalking up all those yards marching down the field when all you get is 3 points or worse nothing.

So, as you can see, is a bit more than just TD/INT ratio.

Using your evaluation inside the 10 yard line completion percentage...

Derek Carr - 37.21%
Ben Rothlisberger - 43.24%
Andy Dalton - 44.83%
Eli Manning - 46.15%

All scrubs I guess...

"Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reports Kirk Cousins will not sign a long-term deal prior to the March 1 deadline for the Redskins to apply the franchise tag.

With a third tag not a functional option, Cousins has all the leverage in the negotiations over a long-term deal, and it looks like he is going to use it. Once the Redskins apply the tag, which they almost certainly will, Cousins can ask for at the very least the value of the tag ($23.94 million) paid out in 2017 and a raise on that total guaranteed in 2018. If Washington balks at that price, Cousins can play out another one-year tender and test the open market next spring, which reports suggest is his preferred option anyway. It is far from a given the Redskins lock up Cousins to a long-term deal."

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Yes, run of the mill i.e. with the main pack. There is nothing wrong with that. Noone is saying he is sh*t. I have long qualified my statement by saying Cousins is an OK QB, not bad, but not great neither. Many QBs make a honest living being run of the mill. That goes to show my objectivity from the get go.

All those statistical categories that you just mentioned sound great, don't they? But, unfortunately that is as far as they go, in other words, just stats.

Tell me, what is the single most important statistical category of any given football team?

That would be the Win/Loss column.

And in order to win games, what do you need to do?

You need to score TDs, put points on the board to outscore your opponent.

This is where the problem lies with Cousins. He just can't get it done. He pads up his stats with a ton of yards, all 4,900+ yards and that's all people see as they cream in their pants right away.

What happens in reality? The guy leads the drives all the way from the 20 yard line to the red zone and then stalls, just can't move the ball anymore or score TDs and more than often only ends up with 3 instead of 7.

How do I know that? Have you seen his completion rate in the red zone?

Inside the 10 yard line, his completion rate is a pathetic 31.58%.

And do you know how does that rank amongst the rest of the QBs in the league?

Dead last apart from Bryce Petty and Nick Foles who only played a handful of games last season.

That's a problem, wouldn't you say?

In fact, failure to execute in the red zone is a huge deal. Teams practice red zone execution to death during the week, that is how critical it is. Why? Because is absolutely pointless when you are chalking up all those yards marching down the field when all you get is 3 points or worse nothing.

So, as you can see, is a bit more than just TD/INT ratio.

Using your evaluation inside the 10 yard line completion percentage...

Derek Carr - 37.21%
Ben Rothlisberger - 43.24%
Andy Dalton - 44.83%
Eli Manning - 46.15%

All scrubs I guess...

Lol right..people also don't bring in how s**tty the run game is, which is very important when talking about the red zone and especially inside the 10. Teams don't have to worry about the run so they focus on the passing game.

Originally posted by jcs:
Using your evaluation inside the 10 yard line completion percentage...

Derek Carr - 37.21%
Ben Rothlisberger - 43.24%
Andy Dalton - 44.83%
Eli Manning - 46.15%

All scrubs I guess...

Thank you and you will be right in saying so, although the term "scrubs" would be an exaggeration.

Let's recap, bear in mind completion rate inside the 10 yard line is not the only thing that I have looked at as covered in my previous posts, take Derek Carr for example, we have looked at other areas of his stats and on the whole he is doing pretty well as a 3 year QB. He has a very good overall completion rate and he has been scoring a healthy amount TDs without committing many mistakes. No doubt, 37.21% completion rate inside the 10 yard line obviously is not great and is certainly an area that he can improve on. And you can easily say the same with the rest of the QBs that you mentioned and I am more than sure those QBs would agree that they will need to improve in that area of their game. I cannot imagine for a moment any self-respecting NFL QB would tell you a completion rate of 37% inside the 10 is great. Put it this way, Tom Brady's completion rate within the 10 is 60% and I am sure Derek Carr would be the first to tell you he will do everything he can to improve himself in that regard. Let's face it, who doesn't want to be as good as Tom Brady? Well, if you are inspired by Tom, then you will have to do the work to get to that kind of performance level.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol right..people also don't bring in how s**tty the run game is, which is very important when talking about the red zone and especially inside the 10. Teams don't have to worry about the run so they focus on the passing game.

I am not entirely sure why you are making reference to Redskin's run game?

You do realize the Redskins had 17 rushing TDs and ranked joint 6th in the league right?

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol right..people also don't bring in how s**tty the run game is, which is very important when talking about the red zone and especially inside the 10. Teams don't have to worry about the run so they focus on the passing game.

I am not entirely sure why you are making reference to Redskin's run game?

You do realize the Redskins had 17 rushing TDs and ranked joint 6th in the league right?

And they were 21st in rushing ypg.

Completion % in the RZ may be a red flag on paper, but you don't judge a player off of paper. You go back and you watch every red zone possession on film, it will allow one to put real context as to why that completion percentage wasn't great. It may be on the QB, it may be on the talent around him not executing, it may be on play design in the RZ or playcalling, regardless there are many variables in play that can have an effect on why that number is not prettier.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol right..people also don't bring in how s**tty the run game is, which is very important when talking about the red zone and especially inside the 10. Teams don't have to worry about the run so they focus on the passing game.

I am not entirely sure why you are making reference to Redskin's run game?

You do realize the Redskins had 17 rushing TDs and ranked joint 6th in the league right?

You do realize that 4 of those rushing TDs was from Kirk? Take that away and they're tied with Cleveland for 16th. I'm making reference to the running game and how important it is to scoring in the red zone.

Guess who was 2nd in red zone scoring % this past yr? SF lol how do you think we scored most of those TDs...running the ball (15 Tds). take away Kirk's 4 rushing TDs and Washington had 10 rushing TDs....7 players themselves had more red zone rushing TDs then Washington's whole team (minus Kirk's)... hell L Bell had one less and he missed 4 games!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

You do realize that 4 of those rushing TDs was from Kirk? Take that away and they're tied with Cleveland for 16th. I'm making reference to the running game and how important it is to scoring in the red zone.

Guess who was 2nd in red zone scoring % this past yr? SF lol how do you think we scored most of those TDs...running the ball (15 Tds). take away Kirk's 4 rushing TDs and Washington had 10 rushing TDs....7 players themselves had more red zone rushing TDs then Washington's whole team (minus Kirk's)... hell L Bell had one less and he missed 4 games!

You took away kirks 4 tds to reach that number but did you take away Kaps/Gabbert's 4 too?

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You do realize that 4 of those rushing TDs was from Kirk? Take that away and they're tied with Cleveland for 16th. I'm making reference to the running game and how important it is to scoring in the red zone.

Guess who was 2nd in red zone scoring % this past yr? SF lol how do you think we scored most of those TDs...running the ball (15 Tds). take away Kirk's 4 rushing TDs and Washington had 10 rushing TDs....7 players themselves had more red zone rushing TDs then Washington's whole team (minus Kirk's)... hell L Bell had one less and he missed 4 games!

You took away kirks 4 tds to reach that number but did you take away Kaps/Gabbert's 4 too?

I didn't not my bad they had 11 without the QBs...My point was never to take away the QBs running TDs, but to show how important running the ball is and Kirk was actually part of that in the red zone.

It's funny people bring up red zone scoring % which you'd think would equal wins right? But only 4 of the top 10 teams in RZS% made the playoffs top 4 teams were...Tenn,SF,NO,INDY

Originally posted by evil:
And they were 21st in rushing ypg.

Completion % in the RZ may be a red flag on paper, but you don't judge a player off of paper. You go back and you watch every red zone possession on film, it will allow one to put real context as to why that completion percentage wasn't great. It may be on the QB, it may be on the talent around him not executing, it may be on play design in the RZ or playcalling, regardless there are many variables in play that can have an effect on why that number is not prettier.

Yes, I am aware the Redskins ranked 21st in rushing yards, but ask yourself this, if that is the case how were they able to score 17 rushing TDs and ranked 6th in the league?

Let's look at the breakdown of their rushing TDs within the 20 yard line:

• Robert Kelley - 5 TDs
• Matt Jones - 3 TDs
• Chris Thompson - 2 TDs
• Kirk Cousins - 4 TDs

Meaning 14 out of their 17 rushing TDs were within the red zone. I don't know about you, it doesn't look to me they have an issue with scoring rushing TDs within the red zone at least, wouldn't you agree?

Now, in terms of the low completion rate in the red zone, true may be I haven't watched every single play on tape, but IdahoNiner put forward an argument that it was due the fact that they have a bad receiving corps. Right away I would like to dispel that myth. I don't think there should be any argument that the 9ers' receiving corps is far worse than Washington's. But, guess what? Yes, as bad as Kap is, he still smoked Cousins in both the completion rates within the 20 and 10 yard lines. How do you explain that then?

Again, like I said I might not have watched Cousins' every single red zone play, but is safe to say (due to Washington's superior receiving corps to the 9ers) that at the very least Cousins had a role to play in that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I didn't not my bad they had 11 without the QBs...My point was never to take away the QBs running TDs, but to show how important running the ball is and Kirk was actually part of that.

It's funny people bring up red zone scoring % which you'd think would equal wins right? But only 4 of the top 10 teams in RZS% made the playoffs top 4 teams were...Tenn,SF,NO,INDY

The scoring percentage is a big deal but just like any NFL stat, not absolute. The thing all those teams have in common with the redskins is that their defenses were terrible. Tenn on the rise though.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You do realize that 4 of those rushing TDs was from Kirk? Take that away and they're tied with Cleveland for 16th. I'm making reference to the running game and how important it is to scoring in the red zone.

Guess who was 2nd in red zone scoring % this past yr? SF lol how do you think we scored most of those TDs...running the ball (15 Tds). take away Kirk's 4 rushing TDs and Washington had 10 rushing TDs....7 players themselves had more red zone rushing TDs then Washington's whole team (minus Kirk's)... hell L Bell had one less and he missed 4 games!

But, why would you take away the 4 rushing TDs from Cousins? He has legs right? So, are you saying QBs are not supposed to rush for TDs? Isn't that part of the rushing attack of a team?

Originally posted by Rascal:
Yes, I am aware the Redskins ranked 21st in rushing yards, but ask yourself this, if that is the case how were they able to score 17 rushing TDs and ranked 6th in the league?

Let's look at the breakdown of their rushing TDs within the 20 yard line:

• Robert Kelley - 5 TDs
• Matt Jones - 3 TDs
• Chris Thompson - 2 TDs
• Kirk Cousins - 4 TDs

Meaning 14 out of their 17 rushing TDs were within the red zone. I don't know about you, it doesn't look to me they have an issue with scoring rushing TDs within the red zone at least, wouldn't you agree?

Now, in terms of the low completion rate in the red zone, true may be I haven't watched every single play on tape, but IdahoNiner put forward an argument that it was due the fact that they have a bad receiving corps. Right away I would like to dispel that myth. I don't think there should be any argument that the 9ers' receiving corps is far worse than Washington's. But, guess what? Yes, as bad as Kap is, he still smoked Cousins in both the completion rates within the 20 and 10 yard lines. How do you explain that then?

Again, like I said I might not have watched Cousins' every single red zone play, but is safe to say (due to Washington's superior receiving corps to the 9ers) that at the very least Cousins had a role to play in that.

Then you need to add in Krik's ability to run in the red zone as a plus as well. I watched a ton of Washington games this yr (had multiple players in fantasy and games were always on due to were I live).

Kirk had some misses no doubt, BUT he lost his #1 red zone target in Reed for multiple games and he was no where close to the same player after getting injured in that Dallas game (avg like a target a game after that)....people blast off about their amazing WR corps, but since when were Djax and Garcon big time red zone targets?

No one is saying Kirk is Aaron Rogers but he's a damn good QB and had provided top 10 stats in most QB categories since being named the starter. He's has made that team better not worse. He would be a MAJOR upgrade for this team.

If you want to bash Kirk for red zone issue's for this past season to try and prove your point on him (even though he was 7th overall in 2015).... you'd better be blasting Big Ben, Winston, Carr, Rivers, Wilson, and Newton cause they were all right there as well.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
You do realize that 4 of those rushing TDs was from Kirk? Take that away and they're tied with Cleveland for 16th. I'm making reference to the running game and how important it is to scoring in the red zone.

Guess who was 2nd in red zone scoring % this past yr? SF lol how do you think we scored most of those TDs...running the ball (15 Tds). take away Kirk's 4 rushing TDs and Washington had 10 rushing TDs....7 players themselves had more red zone rushing TDs then Washington's whole team (minus Kirk's)... hell L Bell had one less and he missed 4 games!

But, why would you take away the 4 rushing TDs from Cousins? He has legs right? So, are you saying QBs are not supposed to rush for TDs? Isn't that part of the rushing attack of a team?

I'm showing you how important he is to that offense and how his running game behind him overall is lacking...the fact that he's mobile enough to get 4 rushing TDs is a plus.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I didn't not my bad they had 11 without the QBs...My point was never to take away the QBs running TDs, but to show how important running the ball is and Kirk was actually part of that.

It's funny people bring up red zone scoring % which you'd think would equal wins right? But only 4 of the top 10 teams in RZS% made the playoffs top 4 teams were...Tenn,SF,NO,INDY

The scoring percentage is a big deal but just like any NFL stat, not absolute. The thing all those teams have in common with the redskins is that their defenses were terrible. Tenn on the rise though.

Yup...having the 28th overall defense and 21 overall running game and still being able to win 8 games shows me how important he is to that team.