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Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

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Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by mod:
I only saw one occasion where Armstead got pressure. Which didnt amount to anything. I've fairly certain we resigned the wrong DT.

I dont see any value in Kinlaw so far. He was getting manhandled.

Geez give him a chance. One game after having no pre season and limited training camp and you're ready to throw the guy under the bus. As Rodney Dangerfield used to say 'Boy tough crowd'

He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

Talking about Kinlaw.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by SF9er05:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I forgot about this guy...genuinely.

Right? I couldn't even tell he was on the field.

Against a banged up Cards OL. This team lost 2 OL players and we still had to blitz to bring pressure. It may not be time to press the panic button but wave a red flag? Certainly.

Kyler Murray's mobility has something to do with it. You can't rush guys like that the same was as you would a Jared Goff or Tom Brady.

And to be honest people forget both games against the Cards last year could have easily been losses, the fact remains the Niners have issues with Mobile QBs. Armstead and the rest of the DL did the best they could to be honest. The issue wasnt in creating pressure it was in containment, Saleh could have used a safety to spy Murray but instead made no adjustments. This is the knock I have on Saleh when things are clicking he looks great but when it comes to actually coaching and making adjustments to your scheduled gameplan thats when the Niners look lost. This goes for Shanahan as well.

I don't think we have issues with mobile QBs...it's just our defense is so heavily influenced by our pass rush that when they cannot just do their usual stuff the rest of the defense has to be perfect and they weren't yesterday.

Overall they really didn't play poorly. Cards got two TDs from a blocked punt deep in our territory and a flag filled drive that should've been a safety in our favor...honestly the refs flagging that on KW is a preseason call that's iffy. Not sure why time and time again we're finding ourselves getting fisted via bad calls. Maybe I'm biased but I don't recall a single questionable call against Cardinals that helped us in a key moment.

How many drives did they keep alive with calls?

Of course end of the day we have to play well enough where bad calls can't kill us. We didn't do that which is why we're 0-1 right now.

Exactly my point, is that even going back to last year Kyler was elusive against us the same thing with Wilson. And to be fair I thought the defense played well enough to win, our defense looks good, some minor things to clean up i.e. tackling but over all I thought they did well. I was mainly speaking for those who thought Armstead didnt play well when in fact the D Line got pressure it was the containment that killed us. Also Im all for running qbs but the rules need to change for qbs period, its too hard to know when you can and cant tackle them esp in real time, on slow mo every hit looks like its avoidable but the way these guys move its hard to avoid them. For example if he dives head first and doesnt get touched he could conceivably get back up and continue to advance the ball, so I think that does play a part. But alas like you said it shouldnt have come down to a call we should have been up 21-0 in the first qtr. and never looked back but thats not the way Shanahan coaches and like Saleh thats our downfall in a lot of these games the coaching really comes to surface. They are young and I know they will get better, its the little things that separate champions Walsh, Belicheck, Parcells, late Pete Carroll from Early Belicheck, late Parcells, early Andy Reid, early Pete Carroll for example.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......
Originally posted by jcs:
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

Admittedly a very tough decision-- But $5M is a lot when you consider who else is/was in line for an extension-- Kittle and Ward this year and we had to let Emmanuel Sanders walk... We have looming negotiations for Warner, Sherman, Juice, and Trent Williams coming. If Trent returns to form (which he looked very promising yesterday), it's going to cost a lot of money.

Ultimately, I think we overpaid to keep AA. But their choice wasn't DeForest for $22m vs AA for $17m... It was DeForest for $22m, or AA for $17m and Jimmy Ward for $9m. And Kittle was a huge question mark at the time too.
  • jcs
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,834
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

In yearly avg...sorry buddy but it's 17 million to 21 million. If you want to look at individual years Defo costs more up front but AA is going to hurt more on the backend of his deal.

Either case AA benefited from Defo being here not the other way around IMO and without Defo there to take attention away I won't be surprised to see AA struggle this year.
  • tyab
  • Member
  • Posts: 102
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

In yearly avg...sorry buddy but it's 17 million to 21 million. If you want to look at individual years Defo costs more up front but AA is going to hurt more on the backend of his deal.

Either case AA benefited from Defo being here not the other way around IMO and without Defo there to take attention away I won't be surprised to see AA struggle this year.

The entire defensive line wasn't getting sacks but that doesn't mean they were struggling. We stuffed the run well and Murray was getting contained until some b******t personal foul/pi calls. But whatever keep bashing armstead and the niners like you always do. 4-12 according to you
Originally posted by Sickaa:
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I forgot about this guy...genuinely.

Right? I couldn't even tell he was on the field.

Against a banged up Cards OL. This team lost 2 OL players and we still had to blitz to bring pressure. It may not be time to press the panic button but wave a red flag? Certainly.

Kyler Murray's mobility has something to do with it. You can't rush guys like that the same was as you would a Jared Goff or Tom Brady.

49ers sacked Murray 4 times last year. Maybe it is something else that is different.

Murray was trying too hard last year. He understands the system better now. That's my guess anyway.

Nah, the difference was a blocked punt and the inability to score on the 1 inch line. Throw in Jimmys underthrown pass to Bourne too if youd like. This is a game the 49ers gifted the Cardinals.
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

In yearly avg...sorry buddy but it's 17 million to 21 million. If you want to look at individual years Defo costs more up front but AA is going to hurt more on the backend of his deal.

Either case AA benefited from Defo being here not the other way around IMO and without Defo there to take attention away I won't be surprised to see AA struggle this year.

Common man, that's like saying Nate Clements made 80 million in 8 years. Did he? We know the surface value is mostly fluff. DeFo is making over 40 million combined this year and next. That's more than double what AA is going to make.
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

In yearly avg...sorry buddy but it's 17 million to 21 million. If you want to look at individual years Defo costs more up front but AA is going to hurt more on the backend of his deal.

Either case AA benefited from Defo being here not the other way around IMO and without Defo there to take attention away I won't be surprised to see AA struggle this year.

Common man, that's like saying Nate Clements made 80 million in 8 years. Did he? We know the surface value is mostly fluff. DeFo is making over 40 million combined this year and next. That's more than double what AA is going to make.

Refer them to AB81 lol.
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

3 years $50M for Armstead. 3 years $56M for Buckner. Buck could be cut after year 3 with no dead money. Armstead would still have $11.5M if dead money If cut.
Originally posted by 9erReign:
Originally posted by walker807:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by Wubbie:
Originally posted by jcs:
He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

We didn't trade Buckner away so we could keep Armstead. Armstead was the backup plan. We traded Buckner away because we knew we couldn't re-sign him at an affordable price, and ended up with AA.

Still though. $17M is a lot of money. Hope he does live up to his contract.

All in all, I think yesterday was a testament to Kyler Murray's skills though. The pass rush, as a whole, was putting some pressure. I think we'll see that ferocious rush show up a lot better against the more traditional pocket passers.
5 million dollars...that was the difference between AA and Defo. If we really wanted to keep him we would have. They made a choice and I still think it was the wrong one.

that's not even close to true......

3 years $50M for Armstead. 3 years $56M for Buckner. Buck could be cut after year 3 with no dead money. Armstead would still have $11.5M if dead money If cut.

Originally posted by 9erReign:
3 years $50M for Armstead. 3 years $56M for Buckner. Buck could be cut after year 3 with no dead money. Armstead would still have $11.5M if dead money If cut.

Not sure how 6(2020)+12.5(2021)+20(2022)=50 but I'm not AB either.
The problem is that our d-linemen only care about sacks and not about gap containment and that´s on Saleh and Kocurek.
This guy going to pull a Kevan Barlow after getting paid?
  • mod
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 42,367
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by jcs:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by mod:
I only saw one occasion where Armstead got pressure. Which didnt amount to anything. I've fairly certain we resigned the wrong DT.

I dont see any value in Kinlaw so far. He was getting manhandled.

Geez give him a chance. One game after having no pre season and limited training camp and you're ready to throw the guy under the bus. As Rodney Dangerfield used to say 'Boy tough crowd'

He's not a rookie so he gets no pass. Add the fact that we traded away an all pro to keep him and payed him $17 million a year thereafter. He better start showing up.

Talking about Kinlaw.

I gotchu

But I'm saying he needs a lot of technique improvement. I dont see anything, and I mean anything in him at the moment. At least in Bosa and Buckner you always see something, either a TFL, or a pressure, or closing running lanes, etc. Arik, Kinlaw, and Thomas had the same performance as Pettis, they were all no shows when we needed them to step up.
Originally posted by Joecool:
This guy going to pull a Kevan Barlow after getting paid?

We're assuming this after 1 damn game against a mobile qb?
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