1 harbaugh qb in the playoffs

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
He is a legit QB guru....

The fact that he can't find a 3rd string worthy of developing tells me he is super legit.

A QB guru should be able to turn mediocre talent into something at least useable. So they signed Colt McCoy but did everything possible to not have to use him.

So how good is Harbaugh?

I say, "Good, not great."

Your argument is based on the talent harbaugh inherited rather than developed so you focused on Kap as your only means of evaluation. As easily as you can say kap isn't where he needs to be I can say kap would be much worse without him. We can agree to disagree on this. Maybe he isn't a QB guru, it doesn't matter to me because I expect Kap to wear the red and gold for another decade or so.

Josh Johnson is actually a really solid player... the reason he doesn't play? Politics.

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Josh Johnson is actually a really solid player... the reason he doesn't play? Politics.

Explain.

JH has a great eye for QB talent. That's without any doubt. He also recruited RGIII as well.

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Josh Johnson is actually a really solid player... the reason he doesn't play? Politics.

Did you watch the Bengals coachs ripping him apart during Hard Knocks?

Originally posted by stunder49:

Originally posted by DontSitOnTheHood:
Josh Johnson is actually a really solid player... the reason he doesn't play? Politics.

Did you watch the Bengals coachs ripping him apart during Hard Knocks?

As unsteady as Dalton has been, it doesn't say much for Johnson that he can't get on the field, even for mop up time.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

JH has a great eye for QB talent. That's without any doubt. He also recruited RGIII as well.

Absolutely agree, dj43 is clueless.

Has JH ever picked a bad QB? Considering the number of busts that happen at the QB position, I think that is impressive. As for CK not being that polished, he has only had about 1.5 year worth of starts including the playoffs. What we seen is JH/Roman tailoring an offense where he can succeed at a high level. We got to the SB last year, and have a good shot at it this year as well. 3 years from now if CK still can't read defenses effectively, then we can say that JH may have an issue training up QBs, but for now I see a good coach maximizing his current talents.

And where did you see that JH wanted Andy Dalton. JH was asked for what he wanted in a QB, and he said athletic instincts. That certainly sounds a lot more like CK than Dalton.

Also, so far JH/Baalke has only spent 1 high pick on a QB, which is their current starter. Let's see how things progress in future drafts. I suspect that they are not done training up QB.

P.S. JH also gets credit in identifying Romo has a QB talent.

Originally posted by dj43:
WAY over-stated IMO.

Andrew Luck was the top-rated high school QB in the nation. He chose Stanford for academics as well as for football. He wanted a top-notch education as well as football. IIRC, he earned two degrees in his time there. Stanford, at the urging of alumni, had demanded the university renew emphasis on football to attract the many very bright students who are also very good athletes rather than allowing them to go all over the nation to schools that do not have such an outstanding academic appeal. School admin responded and top scholar/athletes in turn have come to Stanford. Harbaugh, though admittedly having some reputation as a former player, was fortunate to be in charge when Luck came out of HS. I would argue that Luck, whose father was also an NFL QB, was pretty well polished when he arrived at Stanford. He played well in Harbaugh's power running scheme and continued under David Shaw. While he certainly learned more about playing the game, he played very well right from the start. It is worth noting that he also improved under Bruce Arians last year.

Alex Smith began to show markedly better QB play when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye. Harbaugh, to his credit, recognized that Smith was by far the best option available to the 49ers so he kept him, and Smith responded by taking the team to the NFCCG. Now, Smith, playing in Reid's WCO, a system much different than Harbaugh's power run-based game, just put up his best season capped by a spectacular playoff performance. Though a lot of East Coast writers like to give Harbaugh all the credit, a closer examination shows Harbaugh did not do all that much.

Now we come to Kaepernick and I, among others, believe that if Harbaugh was The Great Quarterback Whisperer Colin Kaepernick would be a much more polished game manager and all-around QB if Harbaugh was really that great. Kaepernick still appears to be getting by on superior athletic ability rather than learned skills and game management ability.

In the meantime, we can look at Josh Johnson, who many point to as some great Harbaugh prodigy, who can't even get a backup job in the NFL.

Sorry. I obviously disagree that Harbaugh is something great in talent evaluation. He may be good but he isn't great. Until I see Colin Kaepernick consistently performing at an elite level, I will not be a huge believer in Harbaugh as The Great Quarterback Whisperer. CK still needs a lot of work. He has been here three years now and his touch still lacks quality. He still has flaws in his footwork. I'll just stop there for now.

When Harbaugh was first hired, he said that Alex Smith could win games... 99.9% of the NFL world laughed.

Yes, some of us had seen that Smith had that potential already (Though, very few were vocal about it). That doesn't change the fact that Harbaugh saw it. Without Harbaugh, it's not likely that Smith plays another snap as a 49er. Without Harbaugh, the 49ers don't get two second round picks when they trade him, either. It was a bold move that paid off big time.

Also, no matter your opinion of Kaepernick at this stage of his career, he's been good enough that the team hasn't missed a beat since he took over. That was a BOLD move that created a lot of controversy.

Harbaugh made a lot of people look silly for questioning his decisions.

My stance hasn't changed from the day he was hired. "Whatever Harbaugh wants."

Originally posted by dj43:
Hardly enough of an exception to dispute the point.

Wait what is the point? Your point is that Harbaugh isn't good with QBs because a D2 QB he worked with who has had a six year career so far in the NFL hasn't done enough?

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

Originally posted by dj43:
Hardly enough of an exception to dispute the point.

Wait what is the point? Your point is that Harbaugh isn't good with QBs because a D2 QB he worked with who has had a six year career so far in the NFL hasn't done enough?

That's not what I said at all. My point was that Harbaugh has inherited a very good situation both at Stanford and here in SF, and, he did a good job getting the players that were there to play well. That makes him a good coach. However, until he manages a transition and continues to win as Bad Bill has in New England, and others have done, I don't consider him great.

The Smith critics were motivated by fantasy numbers, Harbaugh, to his credit was not. Still, I think if he were to be honest, I don't think he saw Smith doing what he has done in KC. Kaepernick is still living on athletic ability after three years, not expertise as a passer. That suggests to me that either Harbaugh over-rated him coming out of UNR, or it has taken longer to develop him than he thought. Also, lets recall the widely reported fact that the 49er draft room went crazy when Cincy picked Andy Dalton ahead of them. Dalton was his first choice, not CK, according to reports.

Harbaugh has brought in McCoy as back up but he has been so bad that the team has brought in one QB after another trying to find someone to take over if CK goes down. If Harbaugh truly had some magic, it seems he would have been able to get something out of at least one of those.

Again, my point is, Harbaugh is good, not great. I am willing to change my mind but not until Kaepernick becomes an accomplished pocket passer with touch on the ball and can consistently go through his progressions to find the open receiver. THAT will be my measure of a successful QB coach. As of now, I am waiting.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
JH has a great eye for QB talent. That's without any doubt. He also recruited RGIII as well.

Absolutely agree, dj43 is clueless.

It wasn't all that hard to see a HS QB that was widely reported to be a unique talent coming out. Same for Andrew Luck. His father, a well connected former NFL player, carefully orchestrated his son's career and chose Stanford in large part for the academics, not just football.

As I said above, and I'll leave it here; Harbaugh is good, not great.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by outside4949:
Harbaugh has to be the best evaluator of qb talent in the nation. At certain times in his career he has chosen luck smith and kap. The fact that these qbs have success after harbaugh says a lot. I wonder if we could parlay this skill into draft picks? What would other teams give for harbaughs qb advice? a second round pick maybe?

WAY over-stated IMO.

Andrew Luck was the top-rated high school QB in the nation. He chose Stanford for academics as well as for football. He wanted a top-notch education as well as football. IIRC, he earned two degrees in his time there. Stanford, at the urging of alumni, had demanded the university renew emphasis on football to attract the many very bright students who are also very good athletes rather than allowing them to go all over the nation to schools that do not have such an outstanding academic appeal. School admin responded and top scholar/athletes in turn have come to Stanford. Harbaugh, though admittedly having some reputation as a former player, was fortunate to be in charge when Luck came out of HS. I would argue that Luck, whose father was also an NFL QB, was pretty well polished when he arrived at Stanford. He played well in Harbaugh's power running scheme and continued under David Shaw. While he certainly learned more about playing the game, he played very well right from the start. It is worth noting that he also improved under Bruce Arians last year.

Alex Smith began to show markedly better QB play when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye. Harbaugh, to his credit, recognized that Smith was by far the best option available to the 49ers so he kept him, and Smith responded by taking the team to the NFCCG. Now, Smith, playing in Reid's WCO, a system much different than Harbaugh's power run-based game, just put up his best season capped by a spectacular playoff performance. Though a lot of East Coast writers like to give Harbaugh all the credit, a closer examination shows Harbaugh did not do all that much.

Now we come to Kaepernick and I, among others, believe that if Harbaugh was The Great Quarterback Whisperer Colin Kaepernick would be a much more polished game manager and all-around QB if Harbaugh was really that great. Kaepernick still appears to be getting by on superior athletic ability rather than learned skills and game management ability.

In the meantime, we can look at Josh Johnson, who many point to as some great Harbaugh prodigy, who can't even get a backup job in the NFL.

Sorry. I obviously disagree that Harbaugh is something great in talent evaluation. He may be good but he isn't great. Until I see Colin Kaepernick consistently performing at an elite level, I will not be a huge believer in Harbaugh as The Great Quarterback Whisperer. CK still needs a lot of work. He has been here three years now and his touch still lacks quality. He still has flaws in his footwork. I'll just stop there for now.

I agree with this. Kaep has progressed, but I would think it would be much faster if JH was truly a QB whisperer...

Originally posted by hateradin:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by outside4949:
Harbaugh has to be the best evaluator of qb talent in the nation. At certain times in his career he has chosen luck smith and kap. The fact that these qbs have success after harbaugh says a lot. I wonder if we could parlay this skill into draft picks? What would other teams give for harbaughs qb advice? a second round pick maybe?

WAY over-stated IMO.

Andrew Luck was the top-rated high school QB in the nation. He chose Stanford for academics as well as for football. He wanted a top-notch education as well as football. IIRC, he earned two degrees in his time there. Stanford, at the urging of alumni, had demanded the university renew emphasis on football to attract the many very bright students who are also very good athletes rather than allowing them to go all over the nation to schools that do not have such an outstanding academic appeal. School admin responded and top scholar/athletes in turn have come to Stanford. Harbaugh, though admittedly having some reputation as a former player, was fortunate to be in charge when Luck came out of HS. I would argue that Luck, whose father was also an NFL QB, was pretty well polished when he arrived at Stanford. He played well in Harbaugh's power running scheme and continued under David Shaw. While he certainly learned more about playing the game, he played very well right from the start. It is worth noting that he also improved under Bruce Arians last year.

Alex Smith began to show markedly better QB play when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye. Harbaugh, to his credit, recognized that Smith was by far the best option available to the 49ers so he kept him, and Smith responded by taking the team to the NFCCG. Now, Smith, playing in Reid's WCO, a system much different than Harbaugh's power run-based game, just put up his best season capped by a spectacular playoff performance. Though a lot of East Coast writers like to give Harbaugh all the credit, a closer examination shows Harbaugh did not do all that much.

Now we come to Kaepernick and I, among others, believe that if Harbaugh was The Great Quarterback Whisperer Colin Kaepernick would be a much more polished game manager and all-around QB if Harbaugh was really that great. Kaepernick still appears to be getting by on superior athletic ability rather than learned skills and game management ability.

In the meantime, we can look at Josh Johnson, who many point to as some great Harbaugh prodigy, who can't even get a backup job in the NFL.

Sorry. I obviously disagree that Harbaugh is something great in talent evaluation. He may be good but he isn't great. Until I see Colin Kaepernick consistently performing at an elite level, I will not be a huge believer in Harbaugh as The Great Quarterback Whisperer. CK still needs a lot of work. He has been here three years now and his touch still lacks quality. He still has flaws in his footwork. I'll just stop there for now.

I agree with this. Kaep has progressed, but I would think it would be much faster if JH was truly a QB whisperer...

i think not having receivers for a majority of the year severely limited what he could do

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by hateradin:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by outside4949:
Harbaugh has to be the best evaluator of qb talent in the nation. At certain times in his career he has chosen luck smith and kap. The fact that these qbs have success after harbaugh says a lot. I wonder if we could parlay this skill into draft picks? What would other teams give for harbaughs qb advice? a second round pick maybe?

WAY over-stated IMO.

Andrew Luck was the top-rated high school QB in the nation. He chose Stanford for academics as well as for football. He wanted a top-notch education as well as football. IIRC, he earned two degrees in his time there. Stanford, at the urging of alumni, had demanded the university renew emphasis on football to attract the many very bright students who are also very good athletes rather than allowing them to go all over the nation to schools that do not have such an outstanding academic appeal. School admin responded and top scholar/athletes in turn have come to Stanford. Harbaugh, though admittedly having some reputation as a former player, was fortunate to be in charge when Luck came out of HS. I would argue that Luck, whose father was also an NFL QB, was pretty well polished when he arrived at Stanford. He played well in Harbaugh's power running scheme and continued under David Shaw. While he certainly learned more about playing the game, he played very well right from the start. It is worth noting that he also improved under Bruce Arians last year.

Alex Smith began to show markedly better QB play when Mike Johnson replaced Jimmy Raye. Harbaugh, to his credit, recognized that Smith was by far the best option available to the 49ers so he kept him, and Smith responded by taking the team to the NFCCG. Now, Smith, playing in Reid's WCO, a system much different than Harbaugh's power run-based game, just put up his best season capped by a spectacular playoff performance. Though a lot of East Coast writers like to give Harbaugh all the credit, a closer examination shows Harbaugh did not do all that much.

Now we come to Kaepernick and I, among others, believe that if Harbaugh was The Great Quarterback Whisperer Colin Kaepernick would be a much more polished game manager and all-around QB if Harbaugh was really that great. Kaepernick still appears to be getting by on superior athletic ability rather than learned skills and game management ability.

In the meantime, we can look at Josh Johnson, who many point to as some great Harbaugh prodigy, who can't even get a backup job in the NFL.

Sorry. I obviously disagree that Harbaugh is something great in talent evaluation. He may be good but he isn't great. Until I see Colin Kaepernick consistently performing at an elite level, I will not be a huge believer in Harbaugh as The Great Quarterback Whisperer. CK still needs a lot of work. He has been here three years now and his touch still lacks quality. He still has flaws in his footwork. I'll just stop there for now.

I agree with this. Kaep has progressed, but I would think it would be much faster if JH was truly a QB whisperer...

i think not having receivers for a majority of the year severely limited what he could do

Why do you feel the need to make excuses for him? I'm not dissing him, bro...