OFFICIAL: The Shaun Hill Starship

Count me in ... Hill is our best option to win over .500 this year so, yeah I am on the ship.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by 9erman:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/168856-in-defense-of-shaun-hill

Oh geez That was written by a 9er fan and not by someone who gets PAID to write an opinion.

I did agree though that it would not be all bad for Smith to sit back and hold the clipboard.

However he's ALREADY done that. When? Over the last 2 seasons. That's when. If this is a COMPETITION then may the best MUTHATRUCKER win and let's be done with this freakin garbage.

It's so stupid to even pontificate ABOUT a competition if Coach is just going to give the car keys to Short Round Hill without any real competition. Which is EXACTLY what this guy would like to see happen.

So ONE incredibly well thought and arguementative write up that still lacks serious thought doesn't cut it for me.

Sorry but people can do much better than this on either side of this debate. I'm tired of seeing people arguing over something that we have no control of anyway. But at least let's all be on the same page about this competition.

Cause until then all we do is bicker over some myopically stupid stuff.

~Ceadder

Look, You smith fans are going to say the competition was rigged when Shaun wins it just like you guys did with JTO... In fact, we all know the only rigged competitions were in 2005 and 2006 where Smith was given every chance to succeed and if someone started performing better or gave Smith too much competition they were gotten rid of...

STOP LUMPING ME IN ON EITHER SIDE OKAY?!?

If you see me defending Smith it's because people WANT him to fail. Which to me is against my better nature as a 9er fan. I personally have NO stake in this other than I want the BEST person on the field. I've seen both guys start under Center and Hill has results but that was coming in as a Backup. I don't believe for a single moment that he can carry this team for an entire season. Teams will have film on him running Raye's Offense and they WILL have an answer for him and that starts with their Secondary playing off the wide outs and their LBs' cheating the middle of the field. That's what I would do and I guarantee you that that is what THEY will do.

This ain't Madden but, c'mon think about the Defense that YOU would run against us with him Starting and you look me squarely in the eye and tell me that he is the answer. If you can do that I might think otherwise but until Hill has some kind of success as a Starter and does it consistently, I'm definitely not backing him other than as a 9er QB and that's only hoping that he IS successful. I'm sick and tired of seeing us field a Pee Wee squad on Sundays. It's sickening.

To me Smith has it over Hill only because he has more upside. That's it. I want the guy to SHOW ME what he's about on game day. He hasn't shown me anything other than he can put the team on his shoulders and perform when others are not. Those people that consistently come here and criticize him have all stated that he's not a Leader. But I guess that taking the reigns and moving forward when others around you practically give up is a sign of poor leadership. YOu can't have it both ways. Either he CAN be a Leader or he cannot. Which is it?

All I know is that I want this "competition" to be a fair and reasonable one. Expect the best out of both guys and you will get the best guy on the field. Expect failure on either side and you will get what you wish for. Failure.

Oh yes, when did you or ANYONE else see me say anything about the competition being rigged last TC? You didn't.

The only thing I ever said was that Smith was injured and so JTO got the keys by default. Which as much as it looks like it, is not the same thing. Cause Hill wasn't even the second string QB until SMITH was injured. So both QBs' got screwed. And Martz was the guy behind that. He wanted JTO and he GOT JTO as his Starter. Look how well that panned out.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Jun 1, 2009 at 16:33:03 ]

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by 9erman:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/168856-in-defense-of-shaun-hill

Oh geez That was written by a 9er fan and not by someone who gets PAID to write an opinion.

I did agree though that it would not be all bad for Smith to sit back and hold the clipboard.

However he's ALREADY done that. When? Over the last 2 seasons. That's when. If this is a COMPETITION then may the best MUTHATRUCKER win and let's be done with this freakin garbage.

It's so stupid to even pontificate ABOUT a competition if Coach is just going to give the car keys to Short Round Hill without any real competition. Which is EXACTLY what this guy would like to see happen.

So ONE incredibly well thought and arguementative write up that still lacks serious thought doesn't cut it for me.

Sorry but people can do much better than this on either side of this debate. I'm tired of seeing people arguing over something that we have no control of anyway. But at least let's all be on the same page about this competition.

Cause until then all we do is bicker over some myopically stupid stuff.

~Ceadder

Look, You smith fans are going to say the competition was rigged when Shaun wins it just like you guys did with JTO... In fact, we all know the only rigged competitions were in 2005 and 2006 where Smith was given every chance to succeed and if someone started performing better or gave Smith too much competition they were gotten rid of...

STOP LUMPING ME IN ON EITHER SIDE OKAY?!?

If you see me defending Smith it's because people WANT him to fail. Which to me is against my better nature as a 9er fan. I personally have NO stake in this other than I want the BEST person on the field. I've seen both guys start under Center and Hill has results but that was coming in as a Backup. I don't believe for a single moment that he can carry this team for an entire season. Teams will have film on him running Raye's Offense and they WILL have an answer for him and that starts with their Secondary playing off the wide outs and their LBs' cheating the middle of the field. That's what I would do and I guarantee you that that is what THEY will do.

This ain't Madden but, c'mon think about the Defense that YOU would run against us with him Starting and you look me squarely in the eye and tell me that he is the answer. If you can do that I might think otherwise but until Hill has some kind of success as a Starter and does it consistently, I'm definitely not backing him other than as a 9er QB and that's only hoping that he IS successful. I'm sick and tired of seeing us field a Pee Wee squad on Sundays. It's sickening.

To me Smith has it over Hill only because he has more upside. That's it. I want the guy to SHOW ME what he's about on game day. He hasn't shown me anything other than he can put the team on his shoulders and perform when others are not. Those people that consistently come here and criticize him have all stated that he's not a Leader. But I guess that taking the reigns and moving forward when others around you practically give up is a sign of poor leadership. YOu can't have it both ways. Either he CAN be a Leader or he cannot. Which is it?

All I know is that I want this "competition" to be a fair and reasonable one. Expect the best out of both guys and you will get the best guy on the field. Expect failure on either side and you will get what you wish for. Failure.

Oh yes, when did you or ANYONE else see me say anything about the competition being rigged last TC? You didn't.

The only thing I ever said was that Smith was injured and so JTO got the keys by default. Which as much as it looks like it, is not the same thing. Cause Hill wasn't even the second string QB until SMITH was injured. So both QBs' got screwed. And Martz was the guy behind that. He wanted JTO and he GOT JTO as his Starter. Look how well that panned out.

~Ceadder

Please review your comments in the Alex Phoenix thread... Several of your posts infer that the competition was rigged. I'm not going to dig through it all, but I distinctly remember you saying something like "It was not a competition, Martz already made his mind up who would be his starter"...

As for the rest of your comments. Come on Ceadder, your better then that. You have argued for Smith and against Hill with me several times and neither of us WANT either of these guys to fail. We argue because we believe one or the other gives our Niners the best chance to win on Sunday.

And yes you are a Smith Lover... If it was up to you, right now, you would name Smith the starter; regardless of all the wins Hill has stacked up for us or the losses that are on Smiths shoulder (pun was intended).

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by 9erman:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/168856-in-defense-of-shaun-hill

Oh geez That was written by a 9er fan and not by someone who gets PAID to write an opinion.

I did agree though that it would not be all bad for Smith to sit back and hold the clipboard.

However he's ALREADY done that. When? Over the last 2 seasons. That's when. If this is a COMPETITION then may the best MUTHATRUCKER win and let's be done with this freakin garbage.

It's so stupid to even pontificate ABOUT a competition if Coach is just going to give the car keys to Short Round Hill without any real competition. Which is EXACTLY what this guy would like to see happen.

So ONE incredibly well thought and arguementative write up that still lacks serious thought doesn't cut it for me.

Sorry but people can do much better than this on either side of this debate. I'm tired of seeing people arguing over something that we have no control of anyway. But at least let's all be on the same page about this competition.

Cause until then all we do is bicker over some myopically stupid stuff.

~Ceadder

Look, You smith fans are going to say the competition was rigged when Shaun wins it just like you guys did with JTO... In fact, we all know the only rigged competitions were in 2005 and 2006 where Smith was given every chance to succeed and if someone started performing better or gave Smith too much competition they were gotten rid of...

STOP LUMPING ME IN ON EITHER SIDE OKAY?!?

If you see me defending Smith it's because people WANT him to fail. Which to me is against my better nature as a 9er fan. I personally have NO stake in this other than I want the BEST person on the field. I've seen both guys start under Center and Hill has results but that was coming in as a Backup. I don't believe for a single moment that he can carry this team for an entire season. Teams will have film on him running Raye's Offense and they WILL have an answer for him and that starts with their Secondary playing off the wide outs and their LBs' cheating the middle of the field. That's what I would do and I guarantee you that that is what THEY will do.

This ain't Madden but, c'mon think about the Defense that YOU would run against us with him Starting and you look me squarely in the eye and tell me that he is the answer. If you can do that I might think otherwise but until Hill has some kind of success as a Starter and does it consistently, I'm definitely not backing him other than as a 9er QB and that's only hoping that he IS successful. I'm sick and tired of seeing us field a Pee Wee squad on Sundays. It's sickening.

To me Smith has it over Hill only because he has more upside. That's it. I want the guy to SHOW ME what he's about on game day. He hasn't shown me anything other than he can put the team on his shoulders and perform when others are not. Those people that consistently come here and criticize him have all stated that he's not a Leader. But I guess that taking the reigns and moving forward when others around you practically give up is a sign of poor leadership. YOu can't have it both ways. Either he CAN be a Leader or he cannot. Which is it?

All I know is that I want this "competition" to be a fair and reasonable one. Expect the best out of both guys and you will get the best guy on the field. Expect failure on either side and you will get what you wish for. Failure.

Oh yes, when did you or ANYONE else see me say anything about the competition being rigged last TC? You didn't.

The only thing I ever said was that Smith was injured and so JTO got the keys by default. Which as much as it looks like it, is not the same thing. Cause Hill wasn't even the second string QB until SMITH was injured. So both QBs' got screwed. And Martz was the guy behind that. He wanted JTO and he GOT JTO as his Starter. Look how well that panned out.

~Ceadder

Please review your comments in the Alex Phoenix thread... Several of your posts infer that the competition was rigged. I'm not going to dig through it all, but I distinctly remember you saying something like "It was not a competition, Martz already made his mind up who would be his starter"...

As for the rest of your comments. Come on Ceadder, your better then that. You have argued for Smith and against Hill with me several times and neither of us WANT either of these guys to fail. We argue because we believe one or the other gives our Niners the best chance to win on Sunday.

And yes you are a Smith Lover... If it was up to you, right now, you would name Smith the starter; regardless of all the wins Hill has stacked*(7? yup that's ALOT of wins) up for us or the losses that are on Smiths shoulder (pun was intended).

I've been saying all year long that I want a COMPETITION to get the best guy out there. If that is Hill, so be it. I don't believe that he is based on what he brings to the table. But if the competition is fair and he wins, who am I to say otherwise? I don't get paid the big bucks to put the best team on the field and Smith obviously did not show that he was better. But that is in the event that Hill gets named the Starter.

Now here is why I do not believe that Hill is Starter material at THIS time.

His record looks pretty nifty when you look at the W/L equation. But when you break it down that is over TWO seasons and most of it as BACKUP duty named Starter. No team had an answer for him because he was virtually unknown.

They had film of him handing off the ball in Minnesota for two series. Nobody can game plan for that other than to stack the box. Stacking the box can get you fired in the NFL if the guy you gp'ed for has a solid Line in front of him(which we don't have) and WRs' that know how to break off their routes when their guy is in trouble(which we haven't had prior to last year) only Battle has done it consistently enough.

His arm issues aside we still do NOT have a solid Line. I don't give a flying truckall what the size of the beef up front is, we have an unknown in our lone FA signing Rachal might be good so is also an unknown Staley is solid on the Right but on the Left he's suspect. Heitman STILL sucks, so we'll have to see if Baas can unseat him and Snyder is the guy that can play most any of the positions but he cannot do all of them at once.

So now we have a guy(in the event Hill wins this competition) that has no protection(worst case scenario) who has shown that he's capable but now is going to have a tougher time because teams will KNOW that he is the Starter. They will interrupt his short game and stack the box to attack the lanes where the RBs' will be coming from.

Tell me oh wise Hill supporter how does Hill beat even St. Louis. Lord knows he ALMOST failed miserably the last time that he faced them. I seriously doubt that he can have another 3 turnover day can come back to win against them.

Personally the only way I see us winning in this scenario is our Defense. And you cannot win thru Defense 16 games of the season. It's statistically impossible to do so.

Again I am no more for Smith than I am for Hill. At this point and juncture, I want the BEST guy on the field.

I no more know that Smith is that guy either. He's an uncertainty based on his arm and not having played for nearly two years. Does he get Raye's Offense? Is the chemistry that he had with Gore gone? Will the Line hold up at all or will we see Rocky freakin Bernard flatten him like a crepe for a second time? Will he be able to build a rapport with the young guys?

But see we won't know any of THAT stuff until he gets into Camp and they battle it out in Preseason. That is what a competition for QB is supposed to be.

I don't want ANYBODY named the Starter now. That would just be silly. Let em show what they got and then pick the best one.

About the ONLY thing I did not agree with last time was that JTO was named the Starter(prior to finding out about Smith's injury) was that JTO showed us what he was in Preseason. A turnover machine. That's ALL anyone heard from me was that I thought it was stupid to name a guy the Starter when he has an average of 1 turnover over 3 quarters of Preseason ball.

But then I found out that Smith was injured and would be out for the season. So we had to go with JTO because Hill didn't get much time with the 1st teamers. I would have rather gone thru a FULL season of Hill than have to witness absolute mediocrity at it's finest. Yeah JTO had a better TD average going than we had seen in a long time, but not at the expense of a 4 turnover average and costing this team games. That's stupid.

Martz insistance to go with JTO cost Nolan his job. Rightfully so. Nolan should have pulled the plug on the JTO experiment, not get fired and then Singletary does it mid season. In the end it is a learning experience for Nolan.

What you mistake for support, is that of analysis.

I only point out Smith's successes because he HAD them. Just like people here tend to point out Hills' shiny Starting record. It doesn't impress me. Because it doesn't impress opposing Defenses. I don't have to be involved in their team meetings to see that.

~Ceadder

Wow cheddar, you took way too long to get to the point... which I am guessing is that defenses can stack the box against Hill, then game over...

My first question is, why wouldn't they do the same to alex? And how would it effect him any differently? He can adjust better because you say so? I mean certain teams blitz like crazy, and stack the box regardless of who the quarterback is (i.e. Matt Ryan, Brett Farvre, Peyton Manning)

Another thing, how is Hill "virtually unknown" when he had played any team besides Seattle in 08? You could argue he took arizona by suprise, but you are probably going to say Dallas had him figured out. Why didn't the Jets, Buffalo, Miami, St. Louis, and Washington all have him pinned? because they only had 3 games of footage on him? (6 if count 07').

In addition, Hill ALMOST (you said it yourself) lost to the Rams, just like the Cardinals ALMOST won the superbowl. Last time I checked, ALMOST ISN'T!!!

Now I am trying to not include stats merely because you will just brush them off with "different supporting casts." Now may the best man win, and I will support whoever it is. Unfortunately, if it is AS, I will have to listen to my wife complain about him being on the field...

[ Edited by SJniner7 on Jun 2, 2009 at 11:45:55 ]

Reading the articles it seems as if Hill is getting a lot of batter balls and throwing some interceptions due to players reading his routes and not being able to thread the ball into tight spots!

...in other news, Smith is also suffering from the interception bug, his result from throwing the ball directly to defensive players.






I kid, I kid, I actually like Smith the most out of our QBs

[ Edited by cestmoi on Jun 2, 2009 at 19:35:57 ]

Are u sure thats not Alex???

Originally posted by jones49:
Are u sure thats not Alex???

no i read about that 2

What's a batter ball?

Hey at least it's OTA's and not a regular season game. I expect to see some interceptions especially when trying to learn yet another different offense. I've read about just as many bad passes from that other guy too. Nice try though....

While Alex has thrown int. He has been seen throwing some pretty solid passes including some of the hardest like come back routes, threading defenders in the end zone, and bulleting corner routes. I am quoting, 'his arm strength has returned,' looks as if he is doing well !!!

they are both learning a new offense. so expect INT.

from all ive read they both are equally throwing TDs and INTs

Funny how people only see what they want to see. I've read any and everything about OTA's this year and Alex is the one throwing a bunch of ints, not Hill and yes Hill will throw some as well, it is camp after all. And by the way, it is camp and better now than during the season.

Originally posted by babbabooey:
What's a batter ball?

Hey at least it's OTA's and not a regular season game. I expect to see some interceptions especially when trying to learn yet another different offense. I've read about just as many bad passes from that other guy too. Nice try though....

Sorry I meant batted balls.