Justin Fields QB - Ohio State

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I got to disagree. When a guy makes two or three miracles in his college career, it raises your eye brows. When you can find ten or fifteen, you start thinking he's a top ten pick. When he does them multiple times every game? Come on. Flaws or not, you have to start thinking best QB in the draft.

EDIT - Oh, and Krusty the Clown footwork? What do you mean by that? I saw a guy with very nimble feet who didn't need his legs to get velocity on the ball.

And I can't agree with diagnosing coverages. Guys say that because he said he "couldn't read defenses," but right after he said that he said this:

"I understood coverages, but to be able to pick up the little tendencies that defenses do… I was just playing."

Sounds to me like a guy with very high expectations who was okay at it but wanted to be great at it.
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His mechanics aka footwork was awful in college, he even admits to that.

dude was a raw prospect with elite talent. He got put in an amazing situation and everything that's has happened with him was picture perfect. SF is in a similar position.

I'm not gonna make this a Mahomes thread, I don't care about him..he's not in SF. BUT the idea of taking a high talent prospect and giving him time to put everything together should be how SF approaches this imo.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
It definitely is. But that's not what's happening on this board. We're only considering one white guy among the top five, because the first two are going to be gone. And certainly not exclusively among the pundits.The hated Cohn, who thinks Fields isn't great at "processing," also says Jimmy isn't great at it either. Last I checked, Jimmy is a white guy. Rosen is slammed for it here as well. As is CJ, Mullens, and any 49ers QB in the last ten years. Alex Smith got better at it (one of the rare exceptions), but he was terrible as well. We haven't had a good processor on this team since Jeff Garcia.

In the media? Sure, but there's been a massive over correction. Literally the only things Jones is good at is pretty good accuracy and executing the offense in rhythm/throwing to the open guy (aka processing). He does nothing else well. He isn't even particularly good at resetting his feet and throwing after the initial concept doesn't work. The guy is a bit stronger armed Chad Pennington. If he didn't at least do those things well, he wouldn't have produced as much as he did — even with that talent around him. That is what the film shows and it is not racist to say that is what it shows. Lance? Lance sometimes fails to throw to ball to the wide open hot route, and he sometimes moves around to find a vacant passing lane even though the guy is already open, as if it's impossible to throw the ball over a defender — this despite him having good touch. That is what the film shows, and it's not racist to point it out. Fields? Fields will, as pointed out by Kurt Warner's two videos, sometimes be a tick late in going to where the defense and play design clearly show where he should go. That is what the film shows and Warner is not a racist for pointing it out. But Warner also pointed out that when he's late on those, he will usually throw it to the check down. Because that is what the film shows and it is not racist to point it out.

HERE is where the racism with Fields truly showed its face this year: "I'm hearing he has a poor work ethic." That is 100% racist and 100% absurd. No one who has a poor work ethic will look like he does, or get scholarship offers from the Ivy League.
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But beyond the racism, something unrelated to this actually really baffles me. The entire racist stereotype here is the insinuation that Black QBs aren't intelligent. But the INTELLIGENCE part of the QB position is in diagnosing defenses PRE-SNAP, in film study. But processing — what happens post-snap — is not about intelligence. It's about vision and reaction time. Dan Marino is flat out dumb, or average in intelligence at best, and was an elite processor.

I don't think every criticism of fields is attributed to racism here though so I'm not sure where this is coming from?

With that said, it's ok to question if a criticism from evaluator X is consistent across the board.

Because I personally was called racist on this board for saying essentially exactly what I said here. Which is hysterical because in the Watson thread people said I was "playing the race card" for arguing that the racist power differential between Watson and the billionaire son of "Don't let the inmates run the prison" and his buddy Good Ol' Boy Buzzbee could be a big reason for some aspects of that case. In one thread I'm a racist and in another I'm a Black Nationalist.

So yeah basically I'm just still salty about it.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I wonder if this is the next all-time great QB class, like 2004 or 1984 (I think that was the year Elway was drafted).

I can't remember the last time there were this many QBs so widely regarded in one draft.

2017

That was seen as a very weak class overall. The draft results matched it too. Only one QB went Top 5. Only three went in the 1st round.

It was . The hype wasn't there for Mahommes. Not like that. Watson should've had it but didn't. For me, its 83 & 2004. 2012 was top heavy. 2018 had some talent. 2021 is up there. I think the key is having the golden prospect that doesn't come around often (although that doesn't apply to 2004). Then having one or two guys that normally would go number 1 overall, and then just general first round QB talents. 2021 could be special.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Because I personally was called racist on this board for saying essentially exactly what I said here. Which is hysterical because in the Watson thread people said I was "playing the race card" for arguing that the racist power differential between Watson and the billionaire son of "Don't let the inmates run the prison" and his buddy Good Ol' Boy Buzzbee could be a big reason for some aspects of that case. In one thread I'm a racist and in another I'm a Black Nationalist.

So yeah basically I'm just still salty about it.

I think people take that position because of all the s**t out there but you are right that it shouldn't be a blanket accusation. At that point you could never criticize

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Dude, respectfully, I can see no truth to the idea that Fields is light years ahead of Mahomes in college, or even ahead of him, period. Mahomes had a better arm, better off platform throws, had better vision, and better improvisation, at least by my eyes.

Fields is a top 5 guy in any draft, but Mahomes should have been first overall — based on his college tape.

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:


"Excuse me, sir, while I throw this fifty yard dime off my back foot under pressure."

And it's not like that's a rare occurrence. Dude was making miracles on a regular basis. I have never seen a college prospect even close to him. He had one real flaw to me, and that was his recklessness. I didn't see his mechanics as a flaw, because they allowed him to perform the miracles that he routinely does. He just had to be taught when to do them and when to fight another play. Just like Brett Favre, who is the QB that he most closely resemble, IMHO.

Not trying to knock Fields, but I think you're expectations are a bit high. If we take him, I think there's a 80-90% chance he's gonna be a star. But being Mahomes? Feels like a 10% chance to me.

Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I got to disagree. When a guy makes two or three miracles in his college career, it raises your eye brows. When you can find ten or fifteen, you start thinking he's a top ten pick. When he does them multiple times every game? Come on. Flaws or not, you have to start thinking best QB in the draft.

EDIT - Oh, and Krusty the Clown footwork? What do you mean by that? I saw a guy with very nimble feet who didn't need his legs to get velocity on the ball.

And I can't agree with diagnosing coverages. Guys say that because he said he "couldn't read defenses," but right after he said that he said this:

"I understood coverages, but to be able to pick up the little tendencies that defenses do… I was just playing."

Sounds to me like a guy with very high expectations who was okay at it but wanted to be great at it.
.

His mechanics aka footwork was awful in college, he even admits to that.

dude was a raw prospect with elite talent. He got put in an amazing situation and everything that's has happened with him was picture perfect. SF is in a similar position.

I'm not gonna make this a Mahomes thread, I don't care about him..he's not in SF. BUT the idea of taking a high talent prospect and giving him time to put everything together should be how SF approaches this imo.

That's fair and I 100% agree. I would even accept that Fields is a more polished in terms of executing the play as designed. In fact, probably a lot more. Mahomes showed he could do it, but more often than not he threw where he wanted because he could, not because the scheme was designed a certain way.

And also I would say that's an advantage for Fields in terms of winning Shanahan over. It's not like Fields was some reckless playmaker. He stuck to the play design a reasonable amount. AND he bailed out the play design way more than Jones could ever even dream about.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Dude, respectfully, I can see no truth to the idea that Fields is light years ahead of Mahomes in college, or even ahead of him, period. Mahomes had a better arm, better off platform throws, had better vision, and better improvisation, at least by my eyes.

Fields is a top 5 guy in any draft, but Mahomes should have been first overall — based on his college tape.

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:


"Excuse me, sir, while I throw this fifty yard dime off my back foot under pressure."

And it's not like that's a rare occurrence. Dude was making miracles on a regular basis. I have never seen a college prospect even close to him. He had one real flaw to me, and that was his recklessness. I didn't see his mechanics as a flaw, because they allowed him to perform the miracles that he routinely does. He just had to be taught when to do them and when to fight another play. Just like Brett Favre, who is the QB that he most closely resemble, IMHO.

Not trying to knock Fields, but I think you're expectations are a bit high. If we take him, I think there's a 80-90% chance he's gonna be a star. But being Mahomes? Feels like a 10% chance to me.

Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

Nobody else I've seen matches Mahomes ability to consistently throw from any platform without sacrificing accuracy or power. No QB in this class (or any other class) can come close to matching that, but it's unrealistic to expect that. That said, Fields is pretty special and capable of becoming a consistently elite QB in the league.

Originally posted by Heroism:
Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

Yeah Mahomes is so much better... I mean the arm... Well that's probably even... But the speed... Hmm Fields is much faster. Okay the numbers... 41 TDs season while completing 66% of his passes for Mahomes.... Fields also threw 41 TDs but completed 70% of his passes. Okay qb rating has to be for Mahomes... 157.... Fields... 181. Hmm maybe Mahomes isn't better....

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

Yeah Mahomes is so much better... I mean the arm... Well that's probably even... But the speed... Hmm Fields is much faster. Okay the numbers... 41 TDs season while completing 66% of his passes for Mahomes.... Fields also threw 41 TDs but completed 70% of his passes. Okay qb rating has to be for Mahomes... 157.... Fields... 181. Hmm maybe Mahomes isn't better....

Dude you keep proving that you didn't actually spend any time watching Mahomes at Texas Tech.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
That's fair and I 100% agree. I would even accept that Fields is a more polished in terms of executing the play as designed. In fact, probably a lot more. Mahomes showed he could do it, but more often than not he threw where he wanted because he could, not because the scheme was designed a certain way.

And also I would say that's an advantage for Fields in terms of winning Shanahan over. It's not like Fields was some reckless playmaker. He stuck to the play design a reasonable amount. AND he bailed out the play design way more than Jones could ever even dream about.

Correct....and it's not me taking anything from Mahomes he was special in terms of just making wow plays. His arm talent is special. He's a better Brett Favre from that perspective.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Dude, respectfully, I can see no truth to the idea that Fields is light years ahead of Mahomes in college, or even ahead of him, period. Mahomes had a better arm, better off platform throws, had better vision, and better improvisation, at least by my eyes.

Fields is a top 5 guy in any draft, but Mahomes should have been first overall — based on his college tape.

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:


"Excuse me, sir, while I throw this fifty yard dime off my back foot under pressure."

And it's not like that's a rare occurrence. Dude was making miracles on a regular basis. I have never seen a college prospect even close to him. He had one real flaw to me, and that was his recklessness. I didn't see his mechanics as a flaw, because they allowed him to perform the miracles that he routinely does. He just had to be taught when to do them and when to fight another play. Just like Brett Favre, who is the QB that he most closely resemble, IMHO.

Not trying to knock Fields, but I think you're expectations are a bit high. If we take him, I think there's a 80-90% chance he's gonna be a star. But being Mahomes? Feels like a 10% chance to me.

Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

That's the same type of throw Mahomes made on us to seal the SB. Just not as far.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/49ers-perfect-plan-for-2021-nfl-draft-dont-overthink-the-no-3-pick-draft-justin-fields/

Don't agree with all of it. Certainly I would prefer to keep Jimmy a year (except for a 1st). But good plan.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by flynhayn15:
What similarities do you see in Lance and Mahomes that lead you to that conclusion?

I would say Lance's college career is closer to Lamar Jackson's than it is to Mahomes. Lance looks like a better passer, but Lamar threw for more yards and more TDs against better competition on 2 different seasons, that Lance did in his 1.

Lance doesn't play the position like Jackson at all...Jackson was a one read scramble QB who played in a spread offense. Jackson wasn't calling protections. He wasn't playing under center.

Passing stats in college are kinda meh. These kids run the offense they're asked to run end of the day.

He doesn't play the position like Mahomes either. I know it's not apples to apples, but if you had to compare college careers to one of them. I would argue it is a lot closer to Jackson than Mahomes.

Also, if Trey had this Good Will Hunting type of understanding of defenses, and Mahomes' skill level (which the post implies), wouldn't his numbers be a lot better?

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/49ers-perfect-plan-for-2021-nfl-draft-dont-overthink-the-no-3-pick-draft-justin-fields/

Don't agree with all of it. Certainly I would prefer to keep Jimmy a year (except for a 1st). But good plan.

I think you put a sticker price on Jimmy and if anyone bites you move him. If not you keep him for the year. After trading 2 1sts it would be nice to recoup some of that and it's no guarantee we can when we inevitably bench Jimmy for Fields.

Fields will be fine from day 1. Mobile qb's can always fall back on their legs.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Dude, respectfully, I can see no truth to the idea that Fields is light years ahead of Mahomes in college, or even ahead of him, period. Mahomes had a better arm, better off platform throws, had better vision, and better improvisation, at least by my eyes.

Fields is a top 5 guy in any draft, but Mahomes should have been first overall — based on his college tape.

I haven't seen anyone do this sort of thing so casually:


"Excuse me, sir, while I throw this fifty yard dime off my back foot under pressure."

And it's not like that's a rare occurrence. Dude was making miracles on a regular basis. I have never seen a college prospect even close to him. He had one real flaw to me, and that was his recklessness. I didn't see his mechanics as a flaw, because they allowed him to perform the miracles that he routinely does. He just had to be taught when to do them and when to fight another play. Just like Brett Favre, who is the QB that he most closely resemble, IMHO.

Not trying to knock Fields, but I think you're expectations are a bit high. If we take him, I think there's a 80-90% chance he's gonna be a star. But being Mahomes? Feels like a 10% chance to me.

Mahomes was so special. Dude had the craziest throws I've ever seen. I remember posting some of his throws in practice where he was no-look passing before people even knew that was his thing. My comp for him was Brett Favre as well.

Fields ain't Mahomes. Not even close. It doesn't mean he can't be great, but he's not Mahomes.

Nobody else I've seen matches Mahomes ability to consistently throw from any platform without sacrificing accuracy or power. No QB in this class (or any other class) can come close to matching that, but it's unrealistic to expect that. That said, Fields is pretty special and capable of becoming a consistently elite QB in the league.

As one of the few that was HUGE on Mahomes in his draft thread, quoted as stating "Mahomes is the only superstar QB in this draft", there were VERY few people pounding the table for him to be the pick @3 and almost universally patting each other on the back for the Thomas pick. I'd assume a Favre comp would have resulted in said pounding. The revisionist history on this forum.....