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this is why we took Ford, and now may NOT get Bosa

Originally posted by theduke85:
Pretty much how I feel. Look at what happened with free agency this year. Look at how many edge rushers were franchised. Edge rushers are extremely hard to find. Yeah, we got Dee Ford, but who cares? Stack up on pass rushers.

Bosa is being a little overhyped (he's not a generational prospect like Garrett, but he is a blue chip prospect), but so is Williams. Williams is a really strong prospect, not a generational talent imo. I think people are getting their vision a little clouded by Aaron Donald. Like, "hey, Aaron Donald is this beast DT that is this transcendent force. I would love to have a Donald on our team, let's get QW so we have one of our own." QW is not Donald and he's not going to have that impact.

Anyway, they're both great prospects. I just think edge is harder to find. A defense can be successful without a dominant interior force but it's very hard to be dominant without an edge rusher. I want as much as many edge rushers as we can get. There's no such thing as having too many.

How much of QW have you watched? I vaguely define "generational talent" as someone who looks like a man among boys in college in a routine basis. QW looks like that and Bosa, who consistently got shut down by decent long armed tackkes, does not.

Aaron Donald is a first ballet Hall of Famer. QW is not there, but he looks better than Donald did in college right now. So, I'd say the tiers go HoF, Generational talent, Multiple Pro Bowler. QW is squarely in the second tier. Bosa is on the lower end of the third tier.

Regarding generational talent, which interior defensive linemen in the last five years has been good as QW? No one, and most experts would agree on that.




Bosa has only one thing going for him in this debate: his position.
Originally posted by theduke85:
Pretty much how I feel. Look at what happened with free agency this year. Look at how many edge rushers were franchised. Edge rushers are extremely hard to find. Yeah, we got Dee Ford, but who cares? Stack up on pass rushers.

Bosa is being a little overhyped (he's not a generational prospect like Garrett, but he is a blue chip prospect), but so is Williams. Williams is a really strong prospect, not a generational talent imo. I think people are getting their vision a little clouded by Aaron Donald. Like, "hey, Aaron Donald is this beast DT that is this transcendent force. I would love to have a Donald on our team, let's get QW so we have one of our own." QW is not Donald and he's not going to have that impact.

Anyway, they're both great prospects. I just think edge is harder to find. A defense can be successful without a dominant interior force but it's very hard to be dominant without an edge rusher. I want as much as many edge rushers as we can get. There's no such thing as having too many.

How much of QW have you watched? I vaguely define "generational talent" as someone who looks like a man among boys in college in a routine basis. QW looks like that and Bosa, who consistently got shut down by decent long armed tackkes, does not.

Aaron Donald is a first ballet Hall of Famer. QW is not there, but he looks better than Donald did in college right now. So, I'd say the tiers go HoF, Generational talent, Multiple Pro Bowler. QW is squarely in the second tier. Bosa is on the lower end of the third tier.

Regarding generational talent, which interior defensive linemen in the last five years has been good as QW? No one, and most experts would agree on that.




Bosa has only one thing going for him in this debate: his position.
Originally posted by 49ersFan_vienna:
trade #2 to oakland for #4,#24 and #106, they get murray
Afterwards trade #4 for #6 and #17 because the giants get nervous to miss Haskins

end with #6 #17 #24 #36
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why isn't he a speed rusher? Dude has a 1.51 split? His short area quickness and explosiveness is top end imo.
His 3-cone, 20 yard shuttle were also split were all better than Allen.

Bosa's explosion out of his first step is pedestrian. That is why he is not a speed rusher. It's not his game and it never will be. He wins with power, especially his speed to power move. If you want to extrapolate a combine measurement that correlates with first step explosion, it's VERTICAL, not 3-cone or shuttle.

That's also why he loses against decent long armed tackles.


He'll give you ten sacks a season though, which makes him worth an early pick.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
How much of QW have you watched? I vaguely define "generational talent" as someone who looks like a man among boys in college in a routine basis. QW looks like that and Bosa, who consistently got shut down by decent long armed tackkes, does not.

Aaron Donald is a first ballet Hall of Famer. QW is not there, but he looks better than Donald did in college right now. So, I'd say the tiers go HoF, Generational talent, Multiple Pro Bowler. QW is squarely in the second tier. Bosa is on the lower end of the third tier.

Regarding generational talent, which interior defensive linemen in the last five years has been good as QW? No one, and most experts would agree on that.




Bosa has only one thing going for him in this debate: his position.

If that was the case why would his win ratio be the highest in the class?

You're taking that information from a couple of bad reps highlighted on a film review.

Mack got stoned by Juszcyck on a rush, does that mean he consistently can't beat FB's?!
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
If that was the case why would his win ratio be the highest in the class?

You're taking that information from a couple of bad reps highlighted on a film review.

Mack got stoned by Juszcyck on a rush, does that mean he consistently can't beat FB's?!

Because in college football defensive ends don't see NFL caliber tackles with long arms very often.
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
If that was the case why would his win ratio be the highest in the class?

You're taking that information from a couple of bad reps highlighted on a film review.

Mack got stoned by Juszcyck on a rush, does that mean he consistently can't beat FB's?!

Because in college football defensive ends don't see NFL caliber tackles with long arms very often.

Even so, the stats would be so skewed, if he were "consistently dominated by long armed tackles" like you say, that would mean he won like every snap against the others. Just doesn't make sense.

Also remember the game that Kollman took his bad reps from was Baker Mayfield's Oklahoma, an offense renowned for spreading out a defence and giving wide open reads.

I'll go back and watch the game at some point, but I guarantee there will be much more at play than "he was dominated by a long armed tackle"
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