this is why we took Ford, and now may NOT get Bosa

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
Allen had 17 sacks last year...he's one of those rare pass rushers you speak of...he's just not a one trick pony. Imagine Ford, Buckner, Thomas, Armstead and Allen coming at once no way you can stop that (aside from Brady)

He had 17 sacks in college. He's got ways to go before he's got the skills of Bosa. And not sure why Bosa is somehow a one trick pony? He's a better pass rusher for what the NFL needs and way better vs the run, don't care about his ability to drop into coverage.

Your scenario sounds great but situations like that scream base D which unless we're blitzing you're not likely to have all those guys rushing...and if we know the team is passing we'd probably take Armstead out of there anyways and rush Allen, Buckner, Thomas, Ford and only have 1 or 2 linebackers out there with more DBs.

it seems like we need speed at the edges and Bosa isn't that guy...vs the run yeah he's better but not the type of player we're looking for.

Our run D was nice, our pass D was HORRENDOUS.

Imagine Ford, Thomas, Buckner and Allen though, that's impossible to stop, you can't roll out and you can't move up in the pocket.

Daniel Jeremiah:
Every opposing team tries to throw multiple blockers at Bosa throughout the game, and he still finds his way to the quarterback. It doesn't matter if he's being doubled by a tight end or chipped by a running back -- he just refuses to be blocked. He's one of the best pure pass rushers I've evaluated. I've seen guys with more size or explosiveness, but his innate feel and polished technique put him in the elite class.


Per PFF:

Nick Bosa is the best defensive lineman in college football. Period. Quite frankly, it's not even close.

The college football landscape is loaded with talent along the defensive line this season, but on a play-for-play basis, Bosa stands in a league of his own.

Traditional defensive line stats like sacks will never tell the entire story. Even the NCAA's sack leader from a season ago – Sutton Smith – registered a sack on only 3.6 percent of his pass-rushes. Quoting that stat to explain someone's pass-rushing prowess would be just like ignoring 95-plus percent of their plays.

AFC/NFC scout:

[i]An AFC exec: "Cut and paste his brother; they are very, very similar. They play extremely hard. Great edge setters and presence vs. run, great pass rush. Get-off is really good. First step. Can turn the corner with speed or go right down the middle of the OT with power. They are a lot alike."

An NFC exec: "Versatile, tough and high-effort guy. Good edge rush and can also drop inside and rush effectively due to quickness, strength and hand use. Good closing burst and heavy on contact. Negative is he can be over-aggressive and not consistent reading keys. Good athlete—not great—but you love the effort and violence in his play. Should come in and contribute/start early. Love the play style and aggressiveness he would bring."[/i]

Just have a hard time seeing Allen as a better choice.

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:

Originally posted by Rathof44:

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:
I believe Bosa won't be the pick for a few reasons;

1. ShanaLynch won't give up on Thomas just like they won't give up on Armstead.
2. Signing Ford means we have that outside speed edge rusher we so desperately needed (even though we need one more).
3. The starting defensive lineup is built like a championship caliber team (*****if healthy) without Bosa as the pick.

Colbert/Tartt
Verrett/Sherman
Kwon/Warner/Allen (3rd down rusher)
Ford/Thomas/Buckner/Armstead

I'd take that than Kwon/Warner and Malcom Smith

Also that means Thomas and or Armstead sits if Bosa is in the lineup every down (which we've seen they're ok with but still)

👀👀👀

Well they only signed AA for one more year, so they aren't that in love with the guy.

So we only need one speed rusher in Ford, completely disagree. The more mayhem the better. Bosa, Ford, Buck.. who are you double teaming?

So Bosa, Thomas, Buck, Ford is not a championship caliber front 4? I would argue it's the best case scenario.

Elite pass rushers are rare, they always go high. It's gonna be Bosa.

Allen had 17 sacks last year...he's one of those rare pass rushers you speak of...he's just not a one trick pony. Imagine Ford, Buckner, Thomas, Armstead and Allen coming at once no way you can stop that (aside from Brady) and you wouldn't know who's dropping and who's rushing on the edges.

Bosa dropping into coverage?

Now that we have Ford we need a BE, not another Sam.

Bosa, Thomas, and Ford would play on the same field at the same time so I don't know what you mean by point #1.

You could not have Ford and Allen in the game at the same time on base downs.

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:

it seems like we need speed at the edges and Bosa isn't that guy...vs the run yeah he's better but not the type of player we're looking for.

Our run D was nice, our pass D was HORRENDOUS.

Imagine Ford, Thomas, Buckner and Allen though, that's impossible to stop, you can't roll out and you can't move up in the pocket.

Why isn't he a speed rusher? Dude has a 1.51 split? His short area quickness and explosiveness is top end imo.
His 3-cone, 20 yard shuttle were also split were all better than Allen.

The question is what we would get for the second pick in a trade down scenario?
I have a hard time thinking that Gettleman will give the 6th and 17th if he was not willing to make a swap of picks in the OBJ trade.
And trade down is a good option to recoup your second rounder but I´ve always been from the school of draft one true great prospect rather than accumulate picks.
I understand this feeling that Burns could be the next big thing but that´s a gamble.
So I rather stay pat at two.

Quinnen is perhaps the best player in the draft but we died for years to have a franchise edge rusher and Bosa could be there.
I would be more than happy to draft Quinnen if the Cards draft Bosa.
But if Bosa is there, it´s really a no brainer.
You have Ford and Bosa to put the opposing QB into oblivion for the next few years.
Now if you said me that the Giants give us the 6th and 17th and that the niners draft Quinnen and Burns with those two picks. Ok!
But we could also left the first round with Sweat and Greedy.
That´s why, we should take the conservative approach and just draft Bosa.

We pretty much have two BE's in Thomas (what we drafted him for) and AA even though we drafted him to be inside. The BE run game is taken care of.

We need a pass rushing player that doesn't put a highly paid/drafted player on the bench, just looking at it from the JL/KS perspective.

Watch...Allen will be our Von Miller type player. We run a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel...there's no better way to establish that than Ford and Allen on the edges.

Taking QW, another DT would be a bad look imo. I know AA & ST aren't studs but AA played well and is not a bad option next to Buckner. Sure, if we didn't have holes at FS, CB, WR, RG AND had another edge already to pair with Ford, I'd be fine with taking QW. Imo, no reason to try and upgrade a position group that is already good & has depth. Take Bosa and don't look back unless a team makes a ridiculous offer to trade back

Originally posted by jeffreyjetson:

We pretty much have two BE's in Thomas (what we drafted him for) and AA even though we drafted him to be inside. The BE run game is taken care of.

We need a pass rushing player that doesn't put a highly paid/drafted player on the bench, just looking at it from the JL/KS perspective.

Watch...Allen will be our Von Miller type player. We run a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel...there's no better way to establish that than Ford and Allen on the edges.

what? AA means absolutely nothing in regards to building this team long term or have much of an impact on the draft. Besides end of the day it's where you play these guys in passing situations.

We already have a "Von Miller" speed rusher in Ford. He's not gonna play LEO in base. Dude is 245 lbs and has shown his not all about edge defending vs tackles. Imo he's a SAM in base. We don't even ask our SAM to cover much anyway. In sub he lines up as a DE and screams off the edge plain and simple.

You put Bosa either at BE or LEO like the chargers do with Bosa and Ingram. It's about building for the LT future. You can't tell me you say no to adding K Mack because we got Ford. No way.

People are truly overthinking this 4-3 base crap anyway. We're gonna be in sub 65%-70% of the time. Allen isn't close to the edge rusher that Bosa is currently. He didn't test like some athletic freak and really the only thing he can do better is cover, which we don't even really ask the SAM to do anyway.

There's a few ways we can go about playing Bosa. The most logical is to move Ford to sam/ nickel edge rusher, Bosa at leo. Ford would still end up rushing the passer 90% of the time. The other choice would be to play Bosa how SD plays his brother. That's base end who kicks outside in nickel.

If we do the latter they may cut into Solly's time a bit but he'd still be used as a nickel interior rusher.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

There's a few ways we can go about playing Bosa. The most logical is to move Ford to sam/ nickel edge rusher, Bosa at leo. Ford would still end up rushing the passer 90% of the time. The other choice would be to play Bosa how SD plays his brother. That's base end who kicks outside in nickel.

If we do the latter they may cut into Solly's time a bit but he'd still be used as a nickel interior rusher.

Yup

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

There's a few ways we can go about playing Bosa. The most logical is to move Ford to sam/ nickel edge rusher, Bosa at leo. Ford would still end up rushing the passer 90% of the time. The other choice would be to play Bosa how SD plays his brother. That's base end who kicks outside in nickel.

If we do the latter they may cut into Solly's time a bit but he'd still be used as a nickel interior rusher.

Yup

And drop Buckner Back into coverage?

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:

There's a few ways we can go about playing Bosa. The most logical is to move Ford to sam/ nickel edge rusher, Bosa at leo. Ford would still end up rushing the passer 90% of the time. The other choice would be to play Bosa how SD plays his brother. That's base end who kicks outside in nickel.

If we do the latter they may cut into Solly's time a bit but he'd still be used as a nickel interior rusher.

Yup

And drop Buckner Back into coverage?

If we got Khalen Saunders he could actually do that lol

Originally posted by Waterbear:
Best part is now we can take either.

Ditto!

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Now that we got Ford I would be okay with QW, but most of the zone would have an emotional meltdown.

Except what happens if Dee goes down with a season long injury? God forbid that happens because then we're back at square one with the exact same s**tty edge rushers we had last year (Marsh, Solly, etc.). Imo Bosa or Allen are the only picks available for us to fully solidify the front 7 and pass rush. You need 2 great edge rushers in today's NFL, with it being so pass happy and all.