Favorite Pass Rusher not named Bosa?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

I mean 7 sacks in 2016, 7 sacks in 2017 and 14 sacks in 2018 in the SEC tells me he can do it. It's just the variety in how he can do it that's the question. If they let him pin his ears back every game instead of drop into coverage there's no doubt in my mind those sack totals are higher

Those SEC sacks don't come with him to the NFL. Ask Jarvis Jones.

It's early but Derek Barnett is another recent edge with crazy SEC #'s who's been relatively underwhelming in the NFL.

Don't tell pdizo that.

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Only happens if the Cardinals win and we lose. Or if they fire Wilks

He gone

Sounds like it but that could change.

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by 49ers808:

I mean 7 sacks in 2016, 7 sacks in 2017 and 14 sacks in 2018 in the SEC tells me he can do it. It's just the variety in how he can do it that's the question. If they let him pin his ears back every game instead of drop into coverage there's no doubt in my mind those sack totals are higher

Those SEC sacks don't come with him to the NFL. Ask Jarvis Jones.

It's early but Derek Barnett is another recent edge with crazy SEC #'s who's been relatively underwhelming in the NFL.

Don't tell pdizo that.

Barnett has a nice rookie season, then went on IR in year 2. I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Originally posted by strickac:
Barnett has a nice rookie season

Almost all his rookie sacks were of the low-quality variety. One against a tight end vs WAS; two unblocked against Dallas and Minnesota. Trust me, I went back and watched his entire season. He was very meh, but it's still very early.

Dude was on pace for 6 sacks this season.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

LOL that's a lazy response, I expect better from you Hero. So because Jones and Barnett who also played in the SEC hasn't really worked out in the NFL so far the same will happen to Allen, got it. What conference will the prospects sacks travel with them to the NFL?

I think the issue is that how you got your sacks is more important than how many.


Too many times from Allen you saw him just out-athlete people. That won't cut it in the NFL. Maybe he is capable of winning consistently in other ways too but those are the concerns that he needs to address because out of the top edge rushers in this draft, he is the most one-dimensional when it comes to pass rush approach.



If he comes out and blows the doors off at the Senior Bowl and has his way with a bunch of NFL caliber linemen, then he could be a Top 3 pick. If he is just okay or struggles, it would confirm that he is probably best suited to play SAM.

Originally posted by 49ers808:
LOL that's a lazy response, I expect better from you Hero. So because Jones and Barnett who also played in the SEC hasn't really worked out in the NFL so far the same will happen to Allen, got it. What conference will the prospects sacks travel with them to the NFL?

You're the one that brought up sacks in the SEC as validation. I've evaluated countless edge and have never referenced a conference because, quite frankly, it means nothing to me.

Things that travel from college to pros: Skill, technique, athleticism, intelligence, awareness, instincts, and effort. Allen needs to work on the first two.

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Only happens if the Cardinals win and we lose. Or if they fire Wilks

He gone

Sounds like it but that could change.

Wilks is gone. Its basically a foregone conclusion at this point. One of the Cards beat guys stated that Wilks has already been told he is out but they are letting him coach through the last game.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Originally posted by illinois9er:

Originally posted by btthepunk:

Only happens if the Cardinals win and we lose. Or if they fire Wilks

He gone

Sounds like it but that could change.

Wilks is gone. Its basically a foregone conclusion at this point. One of the Cards beat guys stated that Wilks has already been told he is out but they are letting him coach through the last game.

Oh wow. Mike McCarthy coming in?

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

I'd rather see him demonstrate an improved repertoire of pass rush moves at the Senior Bowl than for him to go full Gholston at the Combine.

Nobody doubts that he'll kill the underwear Olympics. The main concerns with him relate to him relying on pure athleticism too often instead of technique.

Give me ten minutes.
I'd argue that Allen has the most pass rushing tools in this draft
Including Bosa.

Originally posted by Quest4six:

I'd argue that Allen has the most pass rushing tools in this draft

I think most here would agree with that. That's not the problem. The problem is the lack of proficiency in using those tools.

Originally posted by Heroism:
I think most here would agree with that. That's not the problem. The problem is the lack of proficiency in using those tools.

And I understand that, but what I'm trying to say is that they are there, and that he has used them. I did a mock today and watched a good 2-3 hours of tape on this guy. I saw a player who is so athletic he didn't necessarily need to have technique because of how explosive he is off the snap.
When you are drafting a player top 3, I want them to show that they can perform and use skills that will translate well into the NFL. We get the benefit of grabbing the most athletic edge in the draft and he has shown on tape that he can use technique to beat people, not just his athleticism. It's why he has a higher grade than the other athletes like Ferrel, Polite, and Sweat. I'll include some examples in this post

For example, his Texas A&M game
Here he is, on the edge, nothing special coming off the edge in terms of speed, but his stutter step coupled with a head fake and great hand technique allows him to blow past this tackle. This is him using technique, not his athleticism.



That head fake freeze's the D-lineman, follow that up with a move to the outside and a swipe of the left arm to defeat the hands and he's home free. No freakish display of athleticism here.

Originally posted by Heroism:

You're the one that brought up sacks in the SEC as validation. I've evaluated countless edge and have never referenced a conference because, quite frankly, it means nothing to me.

Things that travel from college to pros: Skill, technique, athleticism, intelligence, awareness, instincts, and effort. Allen needs to work on the first two.

The reason I said SEC is because that's the conference he played in and It's no secret that maybe not you, but many consider the SEC to be the toughest conference and most closely resembling of the NFL as far as athleticism, physicality and speed. If Josh Allen's biggest knock or question mark as far as how he got his sacks is by out-athleting people, that's the conference I'd put a little stock in him to be doing it in.

That's a beautiful play no doubt. The timing and hand violence makes me want more. He had some great ones against Mizzou and Texas as well.

Believe me, I want Allen to give me more reasons to fully jump board because I'm on the cusp. I like him a lot, but I simply need to see more before I fully jump on board. He's the main reason I'm extra hyped for Senior Bowl.

Different game same result

Watch how slow he is (from what is expected of him) on the snap. Nothing special coming off the edge


That is an NFL move right there. You've got Allen extending his arms out getting his hands in between those shoulder pads, dropping his butt down and maximizing his leverage, and finishing his move off by yanking that jersey down and bending around that tackle. Look at that bend. That right there is what I expect from him in the NFL. Pass rushing techniques coupled with his athleticism getting around that tackle. Did not make the sack but i bet you that QB knew he was coming.

Like I said earlier, I watched about 2-3 hours on this kid and I have about 30 minutes of tape including his pass rush techniques.

One thing I look for in all my edge rushers is how they fare against the run. I don't expect them to perform like interior lineman, but there is a staggering similarity between edge rushers who can't stop the run and edge rushers who don't use proper technique (cough Polite cough). Using technique in the NFL is critical, it allows edge rushers to get off of much stronger and more athletic guards. Watch this clip:


There is not a single edge rusher in this draft (not named Bosa) who could do what we just watched.
Allen engages with a guard, and holds his own. From the snap you can see that violent hit with his hands throwing that guard off balance. Allen then gets his hands inside those shoulder pads on the guard, and drops his butt down to obtain leverage.
You can see him swing his head to his right to get his eyes in the backfield (Sweat and Ferrell have a hard time doing this) and once he sees that running back is coming, he disengages by extending out and makes the tackle.

That's another NFL move.

I've got 30 minutes of this tape. I'm telling you guys this guy is the real deal. Anyone who says he is getting lucky on relying on his athleticism alone hasn't watched his tape yet.